"Are Zombies now cooler than Pirates and Ninja's?" Topic

Seems to me the cool factor of Zombies is rising(wink wink). Is there now a third side in the Epic battle Pirates vs Ninja's?

Why not zombie ninja pirates ? Shiver me shuriken, me 'ands fallen orf !

No. The Oppositional Triad is completed by the Cowboy. The Cowboy hates the Pirate and the Ninja. The Ninja hates the Pirate and the Cowboy. The Pirate hates the Cowboy and the Ninja.

You can make trigrams out of this relationship and divine the future from it. Works better than the I Ching.

I can vouch for that. Whenever I try the I Ching I just get some nonsense about an old man getting his buttocks stuck in the roots of a tree. How am I supposed to decide on the best course of action based on that? It's worse than the horrorscopes in the newspapers.

It's actually "horoscopes", I realise that. But horrorscopes fits the theme of this topic better.

I prefer gun-toting 70s Blaxploitation hookers and pimps to any of the above, myself. I am patiently waiting for when their time in the sun will come.

I disagree. Zombie is a state of being, or maybe unbeing. You're undead as oppose to living. It doesn't effect your occupation. So you could be Ninja and a Zombie, a pirate and a zombie (Pirates of the Caribbean) or a Cowboy and a zombie.

So really the question is; is it cooler to be living, or zombie?

On a side note I'd totally be voting for a cowboy in the triad of coolest.

Mike

I was going to participate in this discussion, until Pol mentioned old men and buttocks. I sense a conflict of interest, so I will abstain.

However, Pirates are the coolest thing ever. you can squabble over what comes in second, but I shall leave that to lesser minds.

Blaxpolitation figures are best interpreted as members of the Pirate exemplar. They hate Tommy Chan's mob (the Ninja) and the Outsiders (the Cowboy).

Incidentally, casting the Oppositional Triad for the question "Is now an auspicious time to mock Wales?" revealed the Cowboy over the Pirate.

Ah, the Swear-O-Tron lets us say "hookers", does it?

Other words with a similar meaning don't get past it. I suppose you have to have it for the ACW freaks, otherwise they wouldn't be able to talk about "Fighting Joe" .

Scunthorp also gets through the filter.

Don't know about coolest, but Cowboy is certainly the gayest. Pips Pirate to the post and both of them leave Ninja far behind.

A zombie trying to swashbuckle is comedic and therefore not cool. We've already seen zombie acting – "Battlefield Earth" And zombie writing – "Battlefield Earth" again. Zombies shall forever remain relegated to a supporting role as any zombie who has enough character is actually a vampire slumming it.

The problem with the Ninja/Pirate/Cowboy trigram is that its like an unstable molecule – it wants to bind with something else to be complete. Hence the Ninja/Pirate/Cowboy/Robot quagram. Alternatively, you'll see Ninja/Pirate/Cowboy/Viking quagrams as well.

Incidently, either works better for prognostication routine as with the fourth variable you can unlock the secrets beyond the veil of the third eye.

Or, they'll tell you what you're having for dinner.

Wyatt

Am I the only one thinking that holites are cooler than any of them?

Possibly.

The kids at my history club wanted to know who would win in a fight between pirates and ninjas.

I told them ninjas would surely win as the pirates wouldn't even see them coming. They disputed that so I told them we could do it as a game sometime. Realizing that I'm the one with the rules and the one that comes up with the scenarios they wisely declined :)

No way. Pirates are on boats, and everyone knows ninjas can't swim, just fly. So the pirates just cannon 'em out of the air.

Duh.

I think you're mistaking vital dynamism with instability. The Ninja/Pirate/Cowboy triad is sufficiently complete. We'll have none of this newfangled modernist interpretation. Robots? Vikings? The former is a secondary supporter, like the Zombie. The latter is clearly a Pirate.

You displease the ancestors with your disharmonious soothsaying!

Weren't they always???

But we cannot use the cowboy in this context assuredly as the cowboy is the Ying we must have the Indian as the Yang

I divine using the Paris/Britney/Mariah trigrams. The results are always depressing.

Allen

Ninjas were never cool. After all, any good cinematic martial artist can whale the bejeebus out of a whole slew of them.

Zombies were never cool. They were so uncool that a whole new genre had to be developed to try to accelerate them into something cool. It was a failure.

Pirates however are always cool. Would you have cast Robert Newton as a ninja? Do we have Talk Like a Zombie Day? There is no comparison. Now stop being silly.

Allen

I don't know about vital dynamism, but Freud did state that the Ninja/Pirate/Cowboy triad was actually a representation of the Id/Ego/Superego triad with the Pirates representing the Id – the primitive instinctual desires of sexuality and aggression. The Ninja were the superego with its symbolic internalization of cultural regulations – which stands in direct opposition to the id and is aggressive to the ego which is represented by the Cowboys. The ego's task is to serve as an intermediary between the two – especially in the form of defense mechanism (represented by the firearms) and occasional to put "die grosses smack unten" on the other two aspects as needed.

In his later works, "The Tao of Oedipus" and "Was Ist Mit Diesen Kerlen Irgendwie?" Freud wrote that the addition of a fourth element was essential for the other three to properly interact. He hypothesized that both represented outside forces – the Viking being the wild, untamed forces of nature and the Robot representing dispassionate, industrialized civilization.

He further wrote that all five could interact to represent the true complexity of mankind's existence, but unfortunately he died before he could complete the ruleset thus depriving the world of what could have become the premier d12-based gaming system of the century – "Schadenfruede: Dose des Whoopesels".

Wyatt

A few points to add in the mix:

1) Ninjas flip out and kill people … a lot. See also link Unfortunately, more than one ninja in one place spells doom for the ninja mission. See also picture

2) You can't spell pirate without irate. See also link

3) In the defense of cowboys, Roger Staubach (see also link ) is quite possibly the manliest dude this side of Chuck Norris, who often wears a cowboy hat (see also chucknorrisfacts.com ) and has slaughtered at least four score and seven ninjas in every movie in which he has appeared, giving cowboys the edge over Ninjas. Since pirates are criminals and Chuck slaughtered dozens of criminals in every episode of Walker, Texas Ranger, the edge over ninjas is obvious.

Of the three, Cowboy wins.

Why do we always have to go to Freud for these things. As a minor part of the inherited conglomerate the ascendancy of the zombie over the pirate/ninja paradigm is clearly only possible in a society comfortable with it's place in the time.

Clearly when the society is stressed the more dominant part of the inherited conglomerate will assert itself and become the most popular cult. So we must be feeling pretty good about things for the zombie to even begin to rival the pirate/ninja duality.

If anything this has to do with the dropping price of gas rather than an actual incease in the coolness of the zombie.

Wyatt, you make an excellent case for the Quintabula, and nobody doubts your scholarship (I would, however, have cited Jung instead of Freud) but alas, I was trained by the Yijing memeticists, and consequently I have fundamental difficulties with expanding out of the Triad.

Freud was wrong to represent the tensions of nature as simple binaries. How do we represent wild, untamed forces of nature? Cowboy and Pirate. Both are In Nature, both live by their own codes (untamed), and the tension of Solitude versus Congregation is found in that nature contains both the individual and the herd in equal majesty.

How then, cool and rational technology? Simply enough, the Ninja. The ninja exists in a nature of his own artifice, in the absence of emotion (which is the purview of the Pirate).

I would further argue that once the notion of Cowboy is introduced to the Ninja and Pirate conflict, there is the intuitive sense of completion.

Zombies try to be cool, to slow the rate of decomposition. Unfortunately, as we all know, anyone who has to try to be cool, isn't.

Pirates are the opposite of cool. Cool people do not shout, "Aar! I'll rip out yer gizzard wi' a boat 'ook, scupper me bilges with a marlin-spike, else!" when annoyed. They give a look of disdain instead.

Ninjas jump around a lot. That is not cool.

Kevin Costner often plays cowboys. This cancels out even Eastwood levels of coolness, and leaves the conclusion that cowboys are, on balance, naff.

Hoplites wear mini-skirts. This would be cool if they were '60s chicks; otherwise, not.

The I Ching was cool for about three weeks in 1968.

Sigmund Freeud tried to get people to talk a lot about their feelings: that's anti-cool.

Scunthorpe is cool in the winter months.

Scunthorpe is often cool in the summer months, too.

There are only Pirates and Ninja.

Zombies are dead Ninja, or unsuccessful Pirate wannabes.

Cowboys are Pirates in Western wear.

Indians are feral Ninja.

Vikings are early Pirates.

I have no answer for Paris and Britney..perhaps they're robots.

I think the trigram needs to be:

Pirate
Samurai
Cowboy

Ninja attack samurai, but it is infra dignitatem for samurai to trouble themselves with ninja. Ninjas are really akin to yakuza and gangsters, which makes them a subspecies of pirates anyway.

As we're never going to get to a punchline, what this topic now needs is Graham Chapman to walk in dressed as a British officer and tell us to stop being silly.

Zombies are Anti-Cool. Lurching, rotten dead things with no table manners at all, *and* (outside of Thriller) they can't dance. They sit at the center of the Triangle of Conflict, righteously opposed by Cowboys, Ninjas, and Pirates alike.

Steve: "Kevin Costner often plays cowboys. This cancels out even Eastwood levels of coolness, and leaves the conclusion that cowboys are, on balance, naff."

You've forgotten the influence of Brisco County Junior, who puts Cowboys solidly in the Cool category. Besides, it's quite apparent that Costner is, in fact, a zombie prentending to be an actor pretending to be a cowboy, which can hardly be held against them.

Rich

The song, "Kung Foo Fighting", killed the coolness factor of ninjas, forever.

It isn't right, or fair, but that's just the way that the world works.

Graham Chapman is an ex-human. He has ceased to be. If he were to come in now and tell us to stop being silly, he would have to do so as a zombie. Yet another conflict of interest.

"Don't know about coolest, but Cowboy is certainly the gayest."

Give Jonny Depp another movie to flounce around in and he may well get pirates back in the running for the gayest.

Err..Johnny Depp even…

What about Zombie Ninja Pirate Cowboy Catgirls?

Oh,oh!zombie gunfighters,harrowed ring a bell.Pirates tend more toward skeletonism?!all those flesh eating chiggers in Davey Jones' locker.Ninjas die in droves,sooo..,zombie ninjas,Clan war maybe?.

Zombies are dogmeat,pretensions of life aside,they qualify as fodder=not cool.

I vote un-cool,(sounds of a Husquavarna cranking up).
Who cares about the sexual proclivities of the boogers,meatpuppet is still meatpuppet(makes robots a candidate for cool),state of decay would preclude coolness,now I need to paint fifty more zombies right away.

Johnny Depp was in a cowboy movie:

imdb.com/title/tt0112817

Does that move them back up to the gayest?

I don't know why Johnny Depp is suddenly the benchmark for how gay something is.

Cowboys are definitely gayer. Just look at the way The Duke minces off at the end of "The Searchers."

Cowboys have serious cool potential. See: Costner vs. everyone else, especially Brisco County Junior. Pirates could be cool but usually end up as trendy or even faddish. Vikings are cool as long as their helmets do not have horns, and they usually don't suffer the trendiness seemingly inherent with waterborne criminality. Modern pirates can be cool. See: Black Lagoon. Robots (whatever size) may be cool with the right aesthetics, but tend to simply look silly. Samurai have always been cool, while ninjas haven't been cool since the 1980's. Zombies can be cool or laughable, depending on budget. Space Pirate Amazon Ninja Catgirls are, have been, and shall always be cool.

Speaking about what makes something cool as far as paint goes. I own 20 pirates,and they are painted. (I made them warband for Mordheim.) I own about 20 ninjas and they are also painted. I also own about 60 plus modern zombies from about 10 different companies. These are mostly painted. I will use the zombies much more often as they are outstanding bad guys in almost any genre. Think about it, I have zombie cops, kids,busniessmen, firemen, housewives,and highschool students. I'll have to use these minis every day to justify the time. Advantage Zombies

So much valuable discussion!

Two points.

1) The coolness of Brisco County Jr. is somewhat diminished by the fact that his cult following consists entirely of geeks. Nobody else ever saw the show.

2) The discussion of relative gayness connects with the subjects' collective tendency to live in close quarters with other men under adverse conditions. Cowboys spend long winters cooped up in bunkhouses and cabins. Pirates sling hammocks below decks. There's a lot of leather involved. Does anyone know anything about the bedroom arrangments of the ninja community? Just asking, you understand ---

Zombies have no apparerent sexual interests, because those things are the first to drop off. In every way.

There was once a ninja who hid for ages in his target's toilet, waiting for him to come and do No.2s so he could stab him up the bum.

It was in my book on Ninjas and such, so it must be true.

Hanging around in toilets for extended periods certainly gains the Ninjas some gay points.

aecurtis: Every day that I wake up after a night of excessive drinking is "Talk like a zombie day!"

Now, if we're talking about body temperatures, then zombies are DEFINITELY the coolest! Otherwise I vote for Cowboys (and they're not gay, those Brokeback guys were sheperds!).

Polynikes: The Duke NEVER "minces off." honest to gosh, I just looked it up online at our state Website, and we can HANG YOU in Texas for saying that. Really! It's on the books in Austin!

Thieses, you may be ranking thier coolness from the vantage point of quantity, over quality.

Brisco County definitly brought cowboys to the forefont in coolness. Problem is, that if not properly, they tend to come off like gay prostitutes in Times Square; definitely un cool.

Ninjas do make a run at being the coolest, but never quite make it; probably becasue we never truely see how cool they really due to their inherent stealthiness.

Real Pirates (to include the sub-philum of Viking) are cool, but Hollywood Pirates fall into the same trap as mentioned above with Cowboys. I will say this, that the sub-philum Viking has momentarily surpassed the parent philum with their Capital One endorsements. Whether this is trendy, or not, is to be seen.

Zombies are not as cool as the aforementioned three. They do tend to be, force multipliers, if you will. They tend to increase the coolness of what ever genre they are attached to. For example, even a cowboy that looks like a gay prostitute in Times Square will have his coolness factor turned up if he is either turned into, or is battling a zombie.

In conclusion, at this point, there may be too many veriables to come to a concensus on the issue; more study is needed.

I have thought of another point against Cowboy cool, and for their gayness:

Robert Conrad as James West in his leather pants.

Strike two:

link

The thing about Ninjas' sexuality is that no-one ever realises they've had sex with them.

It's actually a pentagram.

The five coolest things ever -- zombies, pirates, ninjas, robots and monkeys.

The order changeth time and again, but those are the permanent top five.

Zombies are on top right now, and for the next few months, certainly through November. After that, who knows? I'd bet on robots, as the preponderance of videogames gets released for the holiday shopping season.

Polynikes, I think the stabbing up the bum part makes them gayer than hanging around in toilets…

The thing about Ninjas' sexuality is that no-one ever realises they've had sex with them.

The really disturbing thing is that I have a scholarly work on the Ninja that includes 16th Century Hentai.

They were tentacles before there were tentacles. o_O

Let me get this straight – the Duke spends a decade in "The Searchers" trying to track down and murder his own niece, and somehow this comes off looking gay?