"Pompey or Caesar?" Topic

Following on from the "Why did the Republic fall?" topic. Here's one for all you Romanophiles out there. In the Civil War that precipated downfall of the Republic, who would you have fought for? Pompey or Caesar?

My vote goes to Pompey every time. What about you guys?

Assuming you're talking from a senators point of vieuw I would choose Pompey. Pompey was the lesser politician of the two and as someone of 'lesser birth' more in awe with the institutions of the republic. Also that famous cav charge at Pharsalos is IMHO the battefield equivalent of a lot of diceresults turned out six.

Caesar, because I listened to the propoganda…

Damon, read a book written by Caesar…no books by Pompey.

I would go with Caesar, too if just picking a neat historical person with a lot of dash.

But if I actually had to live under the guy, Pompey.

Pompey proclaimed "Who is not for me is against me." Caesar announced "Who is not against me is for me." Guess who won! Possibly some lessons for modern politicians here.

sgt bilko beat me to it.

"Alea Iacta Est"!

- Greg

Well, Ceaser invented the salad and a method of birthing children. Pompey had a city named after him but was unlucky enought to park it under a volcano – not very bright. So I pick Ceaser even though I prefer the house salad with blue cheese.

So Jesus got that line from Caesar, huh? Perhaps that explains the success of Christianity! :-)

Caesar!

Another vote for Pompey.

The Divine Julius. If Pompey had won the Russians and the Germans wouldn't have had Tsars and Kaisers but Pomps and Pumps.

I reckon, had Pompey Won, he woulda proscribed. Caesar on the other hand would have forgiven and promoted where useful.

So, put me down for Pompey. Win or lose I don't get proscribed.

Pat the Cynic

JC

Isn't Pompey something to do with Frankie Howerd?

Oh no, he was just "Up" the guy

So Jesus got that line from Caesar, huh? Perhaps that explains the success of Christianity! :-)

Did Jesus used to Holiday at the Copacabana?

Whew.

At first, I thought that this was one of those "Ginger or Mary Anne"-type threads.

I'll take Gilligan, he looked like he would pour a generous shot.

Neither. Bring back Sulla.

Dear God, Dave… the man was a monster!

Anyway, I'd go for Caesar.

1. He won. I'd like to be on the winning side.

2. I think he was hard done by. (Yeah, I guess I buy his propaganda.)

Can't fault you on your opinion of Sulla, he seemed like a truly vile individual.

Caesar most certainly. If I am going to die fighting for someone, I want them to have the zeal that Caesar had.

Real men fight for Caesar!

Which man? Neither, but I'd probably have been on the side of the Republic, so over on Pompey's side of the battle, then afterwards would have accepted the forgiveness of Caesar, if I'd lived!

Caesar was a forgiving man only if he had a use for the person. :-) He could be as cold as they come.

In my opinion, Caesar was good for Rome only in so far as Rome was good for Caesar. (And no Pat, :-), that does not make him a bad man).

- Greg

Defently Caesar.

Pompey was protecting the intreasts of nobility, they where the only ones represented by the senate- Caesar was playing to the mob, and im a prole. So Caesar every time. Also Caesar was intergrating conquered nations, while Pompay and co just wanted to rub there faces init.

Caesar was just using the proletariat to further his own interests and to set himself up as a dictator. He wasn't Che Guevara and if you were a poor citizen I wouldn't imagine he would invite you round to his villa for a free feed. You'ld be just a grubby beggar to him, not a fellow member of the working class.

As for "Also Caesar was intergrating conquered nations, while Pompay and co just wanted to rub there faces init." I don't think the Gauls saw it that way!

I believe Pompey stood for the Republic and citizens rights against a tyranny where only might was right.

Of course, a night out drinking with a sanctimonious old fart like Cato and I'd be crossing the lines in an instant! At least Caesar knew how to party, by all accounts!

I wouldn't have fought for either given a choice.

But i think the slighty better guy won.

Don't have a very high opion of Che Guevara.
Spartacus was my man.Karl Marx had the same opion (on Spartacus , he was around for Che).

"I believe Pompey stood for the Republic and citizens rights against a tyranny where only might was right".

I am not so sure on this one. Pompey served his own interests quite well. I feel the primary difference between him and Caesar is that Pompey did not want to operate "outside the consent of the senate" (even though he knew he could).

"He wasn't Che Guevara and if you were a poor citizen I wouldn't imagine he would invite you round to his villa for a free feed".

I see absolutely no similarity between Che and Caesar. Che was a revolutionist and guerilla fighter (his book on Guerilla warfare is quite good, by the way).

Caesar forged an empire from the seeds that Scipio Africanus had planted. A man like Che could never conceive, let alone produce such an empire.

My 2 cents.

- Greg

Caesar was a sex mo-chine.

I watched the episode of the BBC series Ancient Rome : Rise And Fall Of An Empire that dealt with Caesar and Pompey.

If that's how they really were, then I chose the right guy!

Pompey is depicted as a basically decent retired general who knows what he is doing, has the campaign against Caesar as good as won after Dyrrachium, and who is badgered into giving battle at Pharsalus by greedy, vain senators who know nothing about war.

Caesar on the other hand is depicted as a vaguely effeminate, power crazy thug who thinks little of his men and just uses them to further his own ends. The scenes where he casually orders the decimation of a legion, followed by the depiction of the executions are brutal and chilling. He comes across as a thoroughly nasty piece of work. He was played by Sean Pertwee who British wargamers may recognise as Jon Pertwee's son. Imagine that, having The Doctor as your dad!

Yep, Pompey is the better man but history is written by the winners, in this case literally!

Well, no one ever said that Caesar was a "nice guy". :-)

I think we have all heard the saying, "nice guys finish last".

I would be interested to see the film you refer to Alan. Can you get the exact title and episode? Perhaps the DVD can be ordered??

- Greg

AlanYork

I watched that programme. Thought it was infantile rubbish! You are right about the weird cartoon-like characterisations. It was badly researched and badly scripted in my opinion. Roman legions charging like a mob, waving spears (not pilum – spears) around???

Anyone for the Third Party? Crassus?
Rich. Generous. Fairly ordinary general so no-one's ego was challenged.
Head & shoulders above the other two. ask the Parthians.

But rather dead, which I have always regarded as a handicap to leading a party during a civil War…..

Pat

Not necessarily, Max.
Check out the current leaders of whichever Western country you live in.
They'd be dead from the neck up at least.
CRASSUS, CRASSUS, CRASSUS…..

Interesting question with some interesting replies.

Pompey was most definitely a tool of the Artistocracy which had failed to function by Caesar's time. Armed bands were settling political decisions. The Republic was in trouble. . . and Pompey would have kept the status quo and killed even more Romans. . .

. . .Pompey was also too full of himself, styling himself as "The Great" while all the while Caesar the true great general of his time. . .

. . . Pompey's victory would have brought a round of Sulla style executions, further weakening Rome's already weakened manpower reserve. . .

I have great sympathy for Pompey and respect for Caesar's goals and vision. I would have sadly thrown my sword in with Caesar. . .