"New Pics - latest masters 1/500, 4mm Nappy Inf & Horse" Topic

Hi Guys,

I just got in the latest set of masters. I think I can use this set as a good final edit for the actual production figures, but I'd like to hear your feedback before going into the final run.

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The length of the 18 figure infanty strip is now 24mm (15/16th inch)long by 2mm (1/16th inch)wide – which makes for a nice match for the actual 1/500 scale footprint of the formation. Also, on the recommendation of some of you fine fellows, the base is now only 1mm thick. Unfortunately, in order to thin them down to this size the legs (particularly the thighs) now are a tad too skinny (this also led to the delay in casting as they simply wouldn't take), so the legs need to be fleshed out a little before casting one final time. Also, the hands on some of the poses need to be attached to the sides of the bodies as some of them did not cast. And I still need to get that bayonet to cast… (I'm thinking maybe they can be cut into the actual molds as vents, or something of the sort, so the molten metal will run out the tip of the musket into the vent and create a bayonet for me??). But these are minor issues and will not require a new set of test strips.

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The mounted officer's horse is just over 3mm tall at the shoulder (1/8th inch), and measures 6mm (1/4 inch) from nose to tip of tail. The tail didn't come out in this test cast, nor did the horse's reins, a few odd straps, or his ears. You can tell from the pics how rough a job it was to cast the legs at all, so they'll have to be thickened up somewhat for the final version.

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The Chef himself could use a little cutting out of some finer detail, and the tip of his scabbard extending under the horses belly never made it to the metal version, as well as his shako plume..but, again, those are easy fixes. I was glad to see the relief/cutting of the horse furniture, and saddle blanket came out decently.. it'll make these guys easier to paint, from my own experience.

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Here's how the mounted dandies and foot sloggers'll match up together, side by side:

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So, what do you think so far? As always I am happy to hear any suggestions – they really do help quite a bit.

Sincerely,
Bob

While such tiny figures are not my cup of tea, they are quite amazing! Much more correct looking than any 6mm figures I've seen, and approaching 10mm in detail. Good job.

Very nice work on these!

The horse's head and neck look out of place compared to the rest of the body. That might just be because of the missing ears and tack, though.

Rod

Simply amazing! Let's see – in two ranks on a 2 inch wide stand I could get 72 infantry plus a mounted officer – that would look more like a brigade than anything else, I'd think.

Hi Bob

As usual these are very nice!! I think that one thing to keep in mind on your quest for the 1:1 figures is that the overall footprint of the figure is more important than the exactness of the figure is. I think you are on the right track and can't wait to see the final version all painted up!! They should make a lot of people rethink the way they look at their minis.

Have a great day and keep up the good work.

Ken

Too small for me, but from a fellow sculptor; this stuff is AMAZING.

I agree AMAZING!

Any thoughts to Franco Prussian War?

Thanks all.

Ken, you're absolutely correct there. I've been working under the idea that the closer they are to scale individually, the closer they are to scale as a unit(atleast in theory hehe!). With the edits for casting I've had to make some adjustments to the individual figures I was hoping to avoid but I think this is just the right size now.

Vtsaogames; a 3 rank, 100 man company, with a captain at the head, and NCO's/Lt's behind will be 2" across and a about 1/4" deep. A full, 600 man battalion with skirmishes deployed (that's the next pose I'm working on) will be just 10" across. That means an entire division, consisting of 2,400 individual figures deployed in 2 lines, would take up about 1 yard/meter of table space.

Where'd you get that huge dime???

Since you're asking for constructive criticism: the horse looks a bit muscle-bound in the front (shoulders); in other words, a smoother transition from neck to shoulder is needed. Also, is some of the shots, the shakos seem to be too short (but in others they don't.)

These are incredible.

remarkable work, but do you think the horse is really in scale with the foot soldiers? I stand next to a horse, I've never towered over the horses head like the foot soldiers do.

Donlowry; Yeah, I'd agree with you regarding the chest/shoulders.. Perhaps when the legs are thickened up that'll help to smooth the grade down a little. The shako's are all exactly the same size, though from some angles they look stubbier then they really are.

I see your point, Rmcaras. From the pics it does look this way, but when lined up next to each other properly the top of the infantryman's shako disk reaches just higher than where the horses eye level is (and keep in mind this horse does not have his head raised.. it's more thrust out forward to match his pace/step).

Inkbiz:

When they're ready you can put me down for a division's worth assuming I can find a good painter to do them justice!

Great work. Gonna do guns?

The comments on the horse have already been made & it seems that you've got that under control.

Some of the infantry's legs lok rather thin & "Gangly". This is probably just my vision from working on so many mis-proportioned figures though. And since you say they will be thickened slightly I dont think this is a problem.

I like the concept for getting the bayonets cast – a piece of flash to trim to size is no work at all really for a suitably sized piece of metal in the right place!

Overall, more superb work. The detail is outstanding!

Cheers,
Paul "TuffSkull" T.
mercenarybrush.com

INKBIZ i cant read any post you make dammit!!!!!!

All i see is a grey post with no writing everytime.. Why is this i dont understand. Everyone else seems to be able to read what you write and i can readf everyone elses stuff. SOmeone help please cos i want to see this pics…

Hi Bluch! That's weird…I have no idea why that would happen. You sent me your email addy a few weeks back..I'll go ahead and email you some pics.. :-)

Huzzah and hurrah! Wonderful! Need I say more?

Many thanks for the pictures. My patience is rewarded.

Blucher – sounds like you stifled him!! Click on his name and unstifle all should them be visible!

Ken

lol thanks ken u were right :)

Now i can see the pics im happy. Officer looks good better than i expected. Legs are a bit off as you say though.

BTW as soon as your ready, im ready to order.

Extra Crispy; yes I am just starting to fiddle with them.. err.. I just don't know how to do it properly. I was thinking of making a gun and crew in a single cast, but I'm not sure. I'd like to include the appropriate mix and number of guns, as well as limbers and caissons with horses but I'm having a tough time planning how to lay it all out. Any ideas?

Great stuff Bob! I can only imagine how good they will look "en masse". It really is exciting to see your work in progress.

I do have one bit of (hopefully) constructive criticism. The shakos look just a tad small. I know the danger of the dread big headitis, but later when you add other armies some of them (British/Prussians) should have comparitively smaller headgear. I guess what I am trying to say is that if these "seem" a bit small, later figures might have headgear that looks really small.

Another idea is that you might want to make a set of masters that are without backpack or shako. You can use them down the road as "blanks" to base your other figures on. Then you just add on the army specific head gear and pack instead of sculpting a new figure from scratch.

I don't know if you have put any thought into greatcoated figures in the future, but I would imagine that they might cast up a bit easier?

Good luck!

Dan

i second the greatcoat idea.

Are you going to bases these guys in comnpanys btw ?

oh and i had an idea for a business name for you. 1:1 wargaming :) Imagine a 1:1 tercio that would be cool too. 3000 pike and muskets in 1 big block ….

BigDan,

Good, practical idea regarding the "template" figures. I was planning on doing that for the 'firing line', 'skirmishing', and 'casualty' figures. I had originally intended to do all the figures this way, but I want to try to depict the proper marching styles of each nation, so 'marching', and 'charging/advancing' figures will have to be done from scratch.

Greatcoats are a cool idea, and something I'd be happy to work on (and, from everything I've read, the French seem to have worn them quite often in battle). I'll need to get the regular French, British, and Prussian infantry out of the way first, then I can start on the uniform variants including Pre-, and Early-Empire French, and greatcoats, too. They'll certainly be eaiser to paint, and cast, as you say.

The shako size seems to have stirred up a few comments, in addition to yours. I've measured them out, and they are in proper size/scale with the head (typically they are about 1.5 times as tall as the visible portion of the soldier's face). I agree they do look a little stubby in these pics. The shako badge is thickened much more than it should be so it is visible in the final cast (and easier to paint) so that may give it a shortened look. I am also thinking that perhaps the slightly forward angle of the strip in the pics is making them look foreshortened somewhat. That, coupled with the fact that I have to keep my camera zoomed all the way in so that it can focus on the figures, may give the resulting pic a little bit of a warped image. I can try to fiddle with them a little, but I do want to avoid 'big headitis' as you say. :-) Thanks for the fine, well thought input.

Bluch – Yep.. they'll be shipped on individual bases of 18 figure strips, but I personally intend to base them as a full company (2 side-by-side strips in 3 ranks). I am painting one up now and will post the pics when I finish up.

you should consider the fanion guard base as dipicted here.

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Thanks for the diagram link, Bluch. I suppose the best way for the basing would be just like it is shown – 3 small strips of 3 ranks of 3 figures?
Of course now that I see the layout for the NCO's and field officers is different for line and column formations I'll need to rethink another version of the L-shaped strip I was planning on using for the Line formations.. maybe a hollow rectangular strip with the Capt, Lt's, Mastr Sgt, and Sgts for the column formation that will fit completely around the six 18-figure rank and file bases comprising each company?

Well i think how you have it is ok. What to do is to have the sergants, drummers, captain etc single… THat or have them together and i can just cut them off.

What id do is base the privates much as you say. 2 strips x 3 ranks. Id then make enough space on the base to place the drummers, captains sergants etc slightly away from the main formation. The sergants for example would stand on either end of the company tokeep alignment with the other companys. I think it would look so cool to have an actual 1:1 company based how it would look like in real life. With officers hovering about the formation rather than actually inside it…..

ps give the sergants penons :)

Bluch, this is a fast and dirty plan of what I was going for.. the light blue bars would be the shape of the base for the CO's and NCO's, with their positions in medium blue dots.. I've been trying to tweak it so they all fit nicely on a 2" x 1/2" base (not 1/4" as I wrote earlier – 1/4" is the depth of 3 ranks of rank and file without the serrez ranks).

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..this way someone can either plop down the appropriate "command" base around a company depending on if the troops are in line or column. Or, if someone has their own set up, or are not basing at 1:1, then they can just snip the CO's and NCO's off and base them any way they want, as you suggest.

There'd have to be variants of poses amd slight variants of positions in the command strips so they don't look all the same across a battalion, too. Lots of fun poses to work with there, though…Sgts shouting, or shoving a less enthusiastic ranker back into line.. Lt's with swords in hand, or perhaps simply holding the hilt of a sheated sword while they are looking down the line.. Cpts waving their swords enthusiatically, or doing the you-go-there-where-I-am-pointing thing…

Wow.. lots of spelling errors on that one.. see what studying Biochemistry all night does to you?

Sounds like a very workable solution to your problem Bob. Can't wait to see the painted company!!

Ken

Inkbiz

Once again, the figures look superb. Im looking forward to seeing the final version.
Just a few thoughts – how would your idea for casting the unit command affect production cost? There seems to be a lot (relativelely) of metal for a few figures. Will this also affect how the mould is set out? ie the infantry in strips 1" long but the command 2 1/4" etc. From the production side it may be better to cast them as strips which can be cut and based into the proper positions.
The same probably goes for the artillery – limber horses as two strips (one for each side), the crew on one strip which can be cut and based, and the limber and gun models done individually.

All the best

Steve

These look great, you realise I had a large 6mm army that I painted badly about 25 years ago. I have put off replacing them because of your excellent work, hurry up and forget biochemistry! We need you sculpting!!!!

My dreams have come true, sweet ecstasy! Actually, MY GOD, WHAT HAVE YOU DONE, you have let the genie out of the bottle. I'm not totally happy with 2mm, not 6mm, so you've done it. Let me know when they are for sale and keep me posted when a catalog comes out.

Steve,

Thank you for the kind compliment. You make some very good points regarding cost of production, mould making, etc..

As the main focus of the figures is the scale, their minute size should help keep the production costs lower than a typical figure line. Even with the large overall size of the command base vs figures we're still talking about a very tiny amount of actual metal here (quite a bit less than what would be needed to cast a single 15mm figure, by comparison). So, in this sense, it does give me a bit of flexibility in terms of providing extras for folks. That is one reason why I am attempting to include all command, skirmishers, and casualties with the battalion packs. I'd like people to be able to just pick up a battalion with all the bells and whistles included instead of poring over lists of poses, packs, etc. An ala'carte, or single strip purchase system is also needed, I suppose, for anyone wishing to pick and choose for their specific requirements.

Your ideas on the artillery sound good.. I've been having some trouble figuring out what to do there. A battery in the field should look busy – they were a large, complicated unit that really gets very little proper visual respect on gaming tables. I'd like to make a battery pack which would include the actual number of cannon and howitzers, limbers for each (with guns and without), caissons for each, horseholders for each (if horse arty), crewed guns for each, officers, and casualties/damaged guns for each. Again, I am basing the addition of the extra stuff on the small size/low cost of the actual pieces (and on the fact that single strips will be available if desired instead).

As an aside to the basing questions… the little twerps really are quite tiny. The pictures do little to show the true size, so to paint/manipulate them individually really is not going to be all that easy. In part, then, the basing helps if only to make painting/handling easier and faster since anyone using these would probably be painting in some volume.

Thanks so much for the well-thought input.

Best,
Bob

P.S. – Just read your post regarding the rules system I've been working on… they've unfortunately taken a back seat to the figure production right now, but I do hope to have some images posted in a couple of weeks. Thanks for the interest.

Keep in mind that not everyone will want to use them for 1:1 gaming.

Im curious what technique you are using to paint them. THe smallest ive done is 10mm. WHat i did was spray paint blank, drybrush light grey to bring out detail and then colour in. I even did highlighting on parts.

Now for 4mm im thinking its going to be best to use white undercoat. SOmething ive not done in years and am usually set against. Perhaps white indercoat then dark ink to bring out details. Then colout in over that without any highlighting of course :) Im just not sure how well ink will stick on such small figs. Just need to find away to make them as distinct as is possible.

Bob:

I second donlowry as I will be doing a couple of 1:1 units just to see them and show others what their few figures really represent and then start on 60mm x 30mm Polemos bases which should look very good with these little guys!!

blucher:

Get yourself a pack or 2 of H&R nappies to practice on! They will be bigger than these but still in strips so you can try batch painting!

Have a great day

Ken

Bluch, and Ken – give me an email at inkbiz@aol.com with your mailing addresses and I'll send you a strip of this version so you can get a feel for them. I had 6 made; I'm playing with painting techniques on 2 of them, and I'm going to send out 2 as test strips for the actual production figures. The other two I'd be happy to send to you guys to check out.

DonLowry and Ken – I had hoped by offering the strips singly, or in "1:1 friendly" packs with proper troop/officer/nco ratios that this would cover all scenarios. Do you feel a different type of base is needed then? Or maybe a different type of layout for packaging? As active gamers what sort of packaging would you want to see?

Bluch; as far as painting I'm finding that using well thinned out washes (thinned with Magic Wash, and a dab of rubbing alcohol) brings out a lot of the small details. The details are then spot painted and/or dry-brushed on. Then I put on a second wash (a Foundry Dark Blue dabbed around the coat, and Delta Ceramacoat Payne's Gray around the trousers), and spray a very light coat of Dulcoat. I then make any touch-ups I need, drybrush/spot paint a few areas I think may need some brightening (such as crossbelts/shoulder straps, and flesh), and add one more light mist of Dulcoat. I finish up with metallic enamel paint on the musket butt and barrel, shako badge, and ammo box. The whole process is actually quite rapid, and finishes up pretty nicely, all things considered. Of course once you hold them more than 6 inches from your nose they just look like a black smudge, anyway, so…

Well, If you plan on putting out 1:1 packs then you could just make an additional "command" pack for other ratios.

One pack of 1:1 infantry + a command pack of 9 command strips and you can make 10, 1:10 battalions. Of course you would have to have your command figures on a different mold.

BTW Ken/Blucher/Bob make sure you let us see a painted strip!

Dan

Hi Bob:

Thanks for the generous offer but with me being one of the worst painters on the planet (usually use a painting service) your offer would be wasted on me. maybe you could send the strip to Paul 'TuffSkull' who has shown some interest in painting these so we can see what he can do!

Also as for the packaging and basing, because of the size of the figures and the required thinness of the base strip they are on, I would be very careful about the size of the strips, your idea for the surround for the command figs is great but I am afraid that it would be very fragile and come to grief in shipping (this from experience with H&R strips where the longer ones can end up looking more like modern art than figure strips!)Maybe all command figures on a single (spaces out) strip for cutting would be better for shipping.

Thanks again for the offer and I'll drop you a line from home later.

Ken

Hi Ken,

Yeah.. good call on that one.. I had forgotten the odd shapes my old H&R strips used to arrive in after going through the trials of shipping. I remember having to actually uncoil them from each other at times… Ok, so a single strip for the command figures it is!

Hey Paul – are you up for it? ;-)

So much depends on what rules they will be used with. I'm thinking about both Polemos sets and Grande Armee, where figure ratio is not important. With strips just short of an inch wide, it occurs to me that GA with 1"x1" bases is possible! And 2x2 bases begin to really look like brigades!

use 3x3 bases and make them look good!!!

With this figs you can actually make it look like a brigade, not a battalion..

As for my ill be developing my own 1:1 rules cos there isnt anything out there….

"Hey Paul – are you up for it? ;-)"

I'm in limbo between moving house & workshop at the moment after problems with the place I'm moving in to, but once I'm settled, absolutely, I'd love to give a strip a go!

My schedule is such that it really will have to be a single strip though -I can see I could use up some serious time on these blighters & I'm afraid I can't afford that. With the move troubles I've had, my waiting list of commissions (& indeed emails) has to take priority, but I'll squeeze in something if you want to send them my way :oD

Cheers,
Paul "TuffSkull" T.
mercenarybrush.com

Inkbiz, you are mad!!!!! keep up the good work.

A few weeks away and the project moves on. I'm starting to suspect that the picture of your girlfriend was a fake Inky, as you spend a lot of time on here and makoing figures this good must take up the rest of your spare time!! I'll keep calling back and look forward to them coming on the market!!

Simply astounding Inkbiz! Now I challenge you to paint them in exact detail! :) I can't wait to see the finished product though when you have them completely laid out. I used to work in a pewter foundry myself and we did "fairies" and "trolls" at the size that you have. I still can't fathom how one of our customers did such a good job painting them.