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"Wardogs! Mech Combat Game" Topic


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1,547 hits since 18 Aug 2006
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Go0gleplex Inactive Member18 Aug 2006 1:49 p.m. PST

Some of you have probably seen this already…but for those of you who haven't…the playtest version is available here until Sept. 1st. link

Additional information and such can be found on the wardogs topic at the MJXII forums. Enjoy…

CATenWolde18 Aug 2006 2:23 p.m. PST

I tried a crude conversion of MJ12's Starmada rules to handle mechs, and found an early version of these rules in the process some time ago. Great work and well worth a look for mech fans (and who isn't one, really?).

Farstar Inactive Member18 Aug 2006 2:44 p.m. PST

"Great work and well worth a look for mech fans (and who isn't one, really?)."

You'd be amazed.

Go0gleplex Inactive Member18 Aug 2006 7:16 p.m. PST

I've taken a lot of the rough edges and did some streamlining since then CAT. :) Still some minor tweaking going on…but when isn't there at first, eh? *chuckle*

CATenWolde19 Aug 2006 12:52 a.m. PST

I can see the work you've done – it looks really good. I'll pass them around my CBT group.

John Leahy Sponsoring Member of TMP19 Aug 2006 8:45 p.m. PST

I am interested. I have about 400 or so painted Mechs and loads of vehicles and infantry. I cownloaded the rules. What size game is it intended to handle comfortably?

Thanks,

John

Go0gleplex Inactive Member19 Aug 2006 9:18 p.m. PST

Should be able to run about a dozen or so units per side with relative ease. Most comfortably- about 6-8 units. If you don't mind a little longer turns due to the amount of moving needed and resolution rolls, 20-30 units per side are possible.

CATenWolde21 Aug 2006 10:54 a.m. PST

I just gave these a more thorough reading, and I'm very impresssed. This is precisely the marriage of classic mech combat and the MJ12 construction system that I envisioned, with a lot of innovative tweaks and twists added. I think it will provide a great game, and would have no hesitation in purchasing it.

I'm unfortunately in the throes of kicking off my Napoleonic campaign, so probably won't have time right away to test it. However, I'll try to stat up some mechs and then customize my bag o' 15mm mech bodies to match, and have a game as soon as possible.

Great job – congratulations. I particularly like the Lock On mechanic and how it's integrated with various systems and effects, and the incorporation of a simple repair system for campaign play.

Cheers,

Christopher

Go0gleplex Inactive Member21 Aug 2006 5:48 p.m. PST

Thanks for the positive words CAT. :) Couple things to note with the posted version…

1) The infantry design system has been re-vamped and isn't accurately reflected in what is provided.

2) Switch the kinetic and ballistic weapon base type divisors. Kinetic should be 1.5 and Ballistic 3.

CATenWolde22 Aug 2006 2:10 p.m. PST

Okay, so Kinetic 1.5, Ballistic 3, Energy 5, Melee 1.

Are you updating and such on the MJ12 boards?

Go0gleplex Inactive Member22 Aug 2006 6:26 p.m. PST

I'm not going to be posting any updated rules sets on the boards CAT. Though for groups wanting to do actual playtesting, I will provide the most current information. :)

Can email me at Jhereg32dotcom with inquiries.

And yup…that's the divisor set.

CATenWolde23 Aug 2006 9:34 a.m. PST

Err … I can't make sense of that email address …

I'm starting to stat up the "Fab 14" – the original 14 battlemechs from BTech.

CATenWolde23 Aug 2006 2:00 p.m. PST

Some initial thoughts while designing my first mech.

1. With only one "to hit" roll that triggers all weapons, most probably with multiple effect dice (ROF), combat will probably be quicker and more intermittant in effect, with more "misses" and very bloody "hits".

2. There could very easily be weapons with d6 or even d8 damage ratings that could never damage a very heavily armored mech. Should there be some sort of "critical hit" rule to counter that? Maybe, if a damage die is rolled and scores its highest number, but doesn't score a hit, then the player gets to roll the next die type up (and so on). This would give a remote chance for a smaller gun to damage even a heavy mech.

3. First impressions seem to indicate that unit speed might be higher than average weapon range bands (at least for light/medium mechs), resulting in the CBT "outrun the gun" syndrome.

Looking good so far!

Cheers,

Christopher

CATenWolde23 Aug 2006 2:04 p.m. PST

One more thing:

I assume that the thermal signature effect of some weapons only comes into play if it is being fired during the current turn?

CATenWolde23 Aug 2006 2:27 p.m. PST

And …

How do you make an infantry-killer machine gun? A CBT style MG might look like:

Machine Gun (Right Arm): Kinetic Weapon
Weapon Type Divisor: 1.5
Thermal Signature Modifier: +0
Base Ammunition Load: 10 +30 (Extra Ammunition x3)
Range Rating: 1 (1/2/3)
Rate of Fire: 1
Damage Rating: 1 (d4)
Hard Points: ((1 (Range) x 3 (ROF) x 1 (Damage)) / 5 (Divisor)) x 1.25 (Extra Ammunition) (x3) = 1

Can you use high ROF to target multiple infantry targets?

Also, in the above case, do you use 0.6 (3/5) as the base to start multiplying the 1.25 for extra ammo, or do you start at a base 1?

CATenWolde23 Aug 2006 2:44 p.m. PST

And …

What if a mech fires three energy weapons? Would that be +9 to thermal signature or just +3 base?

Go0gleplex Inactive Member23 Aug 2006 6:05 p.m. PST

Okay…oopsed on the addy. forgot the @yahoo portion. my bad. ;)

After the lock on roll…the armor becomes intrinsic to damage resistance. You may not really be missing, just failing to punch through. So yup, combat is gonna be unpredictable. Mind you, multiple lock on rolls would be needed for each target you intend to shoot something at.

the d6 and d8 weapons will do damage to up to AR 6 and AR 8 respectively. If they have the right enhancements, a d6 can even punch out an AR 10. I don't believe in the M-16 killing a tank balancers myself…but it doesn't mean house rules can't be adapted to things.

The speed issue isn't that bad for ground units. they have to sacrifice armor to get those speeds in the cases I've modeled so far…it's the aerial mods that I'm gonna have to go back and tweak some. They pretty much allow a unit to 'fly' the board. In a plane this is fine…but for mecha it's not quite what was intended. *wry smile*

Thermal signatures for weapons, enhancements, etc are all added in at design. It's assumed that an energy weapon will be charged when entering onto a battlefield for firing…and energy gives off heat in this case. (and it just gets rid of the fiddle-some tracking issue too. *chuckles*) So to skip ahead a little bit, if you have three energy weapons, then you have +9 to your base thermal signature. Improved Thermal Dampers would be a good thing then… I'm looking at this scale for possible modification also still, so there may be some additional fine tuning later.

Infantry is pretty much soft kill targets. Any hit will waste 'em in most cases.
For your classic BT machine gun, I'd probably model something more along Range 1, ROF 1 (5), DMG 1, Extra Ammo x2, Chaingun, Double Range Modifiers 1x1x1/1.5=0.67x1.25x1.25x3x0.75=2.36=3 Hard Points

Interesting thought on the multiple infantry targeting. I really hadn't considered that. I suppose, for discussion purposes, the rule would be: Weapons with an ROF 3 or greater may expend their attacks (ROF dice) at multiple infantry squads under the following conditions;
1) A successful lock-on roll has been made for each squad to be taken under fire.
2) The infantry squads to be taken under fire are in adjacent hexes that are within the weapons arc of fire.
The pilot of the attacking unit must destroy the current target before moving onto the next as long as there are available ROF dice remaining. (thus a chaingun has an ROF 5, if three infantry squads are targeted and meet the above conditions, the first squad is taken under fire. Being at close range, they are easily eliminated on the first die so 4 ROF remain to engage the second squad with. It takes two ROF dice to destroy this squad leaving 2 ROF remaining with which to engage the last squad which is at long range.)

If that makes any sense. :)

Shouldn't the divisor in your MG example be 1.5? That would mean the weapon would require 4 Hard Points. 1x3x1/1.5 x1.25x1.25x1.25= 3.91= 4. :)

CATenWolde23 Aug 2006 10:45 p.m. PST

Okay, that all makes sense (and yes I messed up the MG divisor).

My only question is about "Mind you, multiple lock on rolls would be needed for each target you intend to shoot something at." I assume that means that each unit has to acheive its own lock roll (of course).

However, it only takes one lock roll for all weapons (for that unit) to be able to fire at the target, right? This is how I read "Any result that is equal to or is less than the target's thermal signature has achieved a target lock for that turn. All weapons with arc and range to the target possessed by the attacking unit may fire."

On the other hand, can a unit target multiple enemies if it has multiple weapons? I assume there is a separate lock roll for each target, but would there be penalties to the subsequent locks?

Go0gleplex Inactive Member24 Aug 2006 7:49 a.m. PST

If a unit has multiple weapons, it may designate multiple targets, one per weapon. Penalty for lock-on attempts is +1 for each target in addition to the initial target. This is negated with the Gunner seat equipment.

Go0gle Inactive Member02 Sep 2006 8:26 a.m. PST

If you haven't seen them already at the MJXII forums, CAT's got some really really good CBT conversions to the Wardogs rules…

Go0gle Inactive Member03 Sep 2006 1:57 p.m. PST

From CATenWolde:

I just finished up the first game! Short version of my review: it works! It needs some polishing up, but it was fast and bloody. Despite the change in systems, it also felt very familiar as CBT game, which is good.

The playtest write-up (of sorts) is below, with all the gory details. I played 10 turns in 2 hours or a bit more, but I was interrupted several times and was working off the info sheets from my lap top. I think it would normally run 5-10 minutes per turn per "lance".
Also, I didn't play with any defensive measures (flares/smoke/cratering) because I wanted to just get the hang of the basic game. Using them would have definitely drawn out the game and made manouver very different.

Summary of the game. Blue tried to close and see if they could weaken the Archer, while Red chose to pick on the Rifleman. Wardogs thus proves that the Rifleman sucks in any game system! The combination of high Thermal and low AP is just very, very bad. However, the Marauder failed a couple of turns of early fire, and the Warhammer got very lucky to lock on the Rifleman through some woods. After the Rifleman went down, Blue was in a real hole. They tried to take out the Warhammer to even the odds (and eventually did, with the help of the Locust), but it took too long, and they spent many entirely fruitless turns trying to knock out the Griffin next. Since Blue didn't have many weapons that could hurt the Archer (AP 8 ), and the Griffin was so hard to hit (Thermal 3), it was bad. The Marauder eventually went down under a storm of LRM's from the Archer, although the Griffin was the one who wore it down. Both light mechs (Locust and Stinger) spent the game hiding, before I realized that with Thermal Sig's of 3 and 2, they could pretty much run around the big guys and not get hit – but they couldn't do much damage either.

I didn't remember to play with the C-3 benefit, which would have really helped the Blue side (who lost), since they lost the first 5 initiatives, and 3 of their 4 mechs have points tied up in C-3 systems.

Playtest Game #1

Forces: one mixed lance per side. Each side enters from their own base edge on Turn 1. Table consists of 4 basic CBT boards, arranged 2 x 2. Objective: kill or be killed.


Blue Side: 686 points
Marauder (10/252)*, Rifleman (8/208 ), Wolverine (5/159), Locust (2/67)

*(unit size class/ point value)


Red Side: 685 points
Archer (10/257), Warhammer (7/199), Griffin (6/191), Stinger (1/38 )


Turn 1: All advance. No lock due to intervening woods.

Turn 2: All advance. Marauder fails lock on Archer. Archer cannot damage Marauder at long range, so doesn't roll for lock.

Turn 3: Cautious advance. Marauder fails lock on Griffin. Rifleman locks on Griffin at range 12: no damage. / Griffin fails lock on Rifleman. Warhammer locks on Griffin at range 16: 2 penetrate: right leg damaged, improved thermal dampers damaged. Archer fails lock on Rifleman.

Turn 4: Rifleman stranded, cautious advance to medium range, lights remain out of the battle. Marauder and Rifleman fail lock on Warhammer. Wolverine locks on Warhammer: range 7: no damage. / Archer fails lock on Wolverine. Warhammer auto-locks on Rifleman range 12: 2 penetrate: improved thermal dampers damaged again (destroyed), right arm large laser destroyed. Griffin auto-locks on Rifleman range 12: 3 penetrate: right arm large laser damaged (already destroyed), left arm large laser damaged, cockpit destroyed! Pilot ejects.

Turn 5: Blue falls back, Red advances. Marauder locks on Warhammer range 10: 2 penetrate: left arm damaged, left leg destroyed. Wolverine locks on Warhammer range 9: no damage. / Archer, Warhammer, and Griffin all fail lock on Marauder.

Turn 6: Both sides maneuver around Warhammer, lights continue to stay safely hidden. Marauder locks on Warhammer range 10: 1 penetrate, 1 damage: left arm damaged again (destroyed). Wolverine locks on Warhammer range 9: 1 penetrate: right leg damaged. Archer and Warhammer fail lock on Wolverine. Griffin locks on Marauder range 6, both LRM's hit: 2 damage.

Turn 7: Blue falls back, Red advances, leaving Warhammer behind. Marauder and Wolverine fail lock on Griffin. Archer and Warhammer fail lock on Marauder. Griffin locks on Marauder at range 6, 1 LRM hits: 1 damage.

Turn 8: Blue attacks, Locust rushes Warhammer and is rushed by Stinger. Marauder and Wolverine fail locks on Griffin. Locust locks on Warhammer at range 1: 3 penetrate: right leg damaged twice more (destroyed), ejection system destroyed, mech lying flat on back. Archer fails lock on Marauder. Griffin locks on Marauder at range 6, 1 LRM hits: 1 penetrate: left arm destroyed. Warhammer and Stinger fail to lock on Locust.

Turn 9: Marauder falls back, Wolverine and Locust attack, Red advances. Marauder locks on Griffin range 8: no damage. Locust locks on Griffin range 1: 1 damage. Wolverine fails lock on Stinger. / Archer locks on Marauder range 7, 1 LRM hits: 3 penetrate: right leg damaged and then destroyed, left arm damaged again.

Turn 10: Blue tries to break off, Red closes in for the kill. Marauder and Wolverine fail lock on Griffin. / Griffin fails lock on Marauder. Archer locks on Marauder range 2, 6 LRM's hit: 8 double penetrate (16 crit's!): assumed destroyed. Stinger fails lock on Wolverine.

Turn 11: remnants of Blue retreat off-board.

Thanks for the blow by blow CAT.

Go0gle Inactive Member14 Oct 2006 10:06 p.m. PST

Wardogs will demo at ConQuest NW 2007…Feb 16-19.

Go0gle Inactive Member08 Nov 2006 2:39 p.m. PST

Here's a picture of one of the official United Stellar Nations mecha…the Leonis


link

Go0gle Inactive Member23 Feb 2007 2:34 p.m. PST

Another combat report shared with me. (using the latest version of Wardogs)

OK --

I revamped my mechs because I wasn't getting the features out of them at tech 5 that I wanted, so I devised a worksheet -- figuring armor point cost per size (and whether or not Superior Alloy is used), MP, EMs, HPs, and all the assorted kit I'm allowing in the setting. And I've statted up five German and four Russian walker models.

I've got a bunch of CAV minis (x2 Butcher, x1 Starhawk V, x1 Thug, x2 Gladiator II, x2 Khan, x1 Panther, x2 Spider, x1 Falcon, x1 Dictator II, x2 Naginata tanks and some CAS). And it's nice to have another game that I can use to play them.

Anyway, a game last night involved i an unequal duel between attacking German units and defending Russians.

Germans --
Raubtier command Mech
Rasend heavy Mech
Henker assault mechs (x2)
Totenkreb support/arty mech (x1)


Russians
Bakharov siege tanks (x2)
Medved heavy mechs (x2)
Infantry squads (x4)
Chance of some CAS support (x2 Kikyu minis statted up with air to ground munitions)

The battle highlights (as I can't break everything down).

The Henker assault mechs are slow (3 MPs), so to cover their advance, the Rasend -- a heavy mech with Germany's first energy cannons slung over its shoulders, worked up the highground, took up overwatch positions and got ready to snipe at those Russian assets it could see. The Rasend's PkPs have great range, and no mods, as I figure a laser shouldn't HAVE range mods. Its first attack saw it lock on to a Bakharov, even with the tank in partial cover due to its cratering charge, and damage its turret -- although the tank wasn't killed yet. The Rasend had to let its guns charge up for a full turn before it could fire again. As it wasn't in Russian gun range, no real reason to move it.

The Totenkreb scurried up to cover in a patch of forested terrain, but couldn't achieve a lock on with its IF weaponry. Not yet.

FYI -- The Raubtier was giving us an edge through its C3 system -- which always helps when yer assaulting

The Henkers were starting to close with the Russian line when the two Medveds rushed forward -- Russian mechs are well suited at knife fighting, while the Germans typically have a range advantage. One of the Henkers lost a LEG, effectively removing it from the fight, but as damage is simultaneous, the Medved was screwed …..as one of the weapons the Henker uses is a shoulder mounted missile launcher capable of lobbing EMP warheads (I have a set arsenal for each faction, and one benefit the Germans have is uniformity in their missile's HP and range values, meaning a lot of missile launchers can choose from a variety of warheads and not affect their point costs).

The Henker's 37mm rotary autocannons mangled one of the Medved's arms, and the EMP shut it down for the next turn. Which allowed the Totenkreb to saturate the stricken walker with Mordskerl mortar rounds -- blowing it into scrap as its munitions holed the Russian mech's power plant.

Things were really starting to go down hill now as the Rasend also managed to polish off its first Bakharov.

The balance swung back into the enemy's favor as a random reinforcement roll finally saw a pair of heavily armored ground attack aircraft howl overhead and plaster the Rasend with cluster munitions. 1 piece of equipment, a weapon and an arm were all perforated by shrapnel -- which didn't kill it, but removed it as a worthwhile asset. That, and the fact that it got knocked on its can.

Back and forth…..the surviving Henker and Raubtier tore the remaining Medved to pieces……..

But then time ran out as my opponent had to head out. Pretty much a draw. I had killed three assets outright (Bakharov, and two Medveds) in return for having two mechs crippled…..but victory for me depended on actually entering the designated victory zone on the board. The Wolk class recon mech had also used its jump capabilities to get within range of the Totenkreb, which could have proved awkward.

So, bloody little battle. But the game got high marks, especially now that we're using an MP value of 1 for the infantry.

Rommel Twee09 Mar 2010 5:40 a.m. PST

And where would the latest and greatest version of this game set now ?

boy wundyr x Supporting Member of TMP18 Jun 2010 11:25 a.m. PST

It's available for sale from RPGNow and other sites carrying MJ12 products.

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