"Newest test strip pics, 4mm, 1/500 French Line" Topic

Hi Guys,

Just thought I'd share a few pics of the latest production prototype for the 1/500 scale figures.

I threw on a thin coat of vallego black & magic wash to show some of the details (crossbelts, backpack straps, some facial features, shako plates, etc..) that were added to the figures since the last tests pics were posted.

Again, please excuse the rather amateurish photographs.

A quick size reference
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And some close-ups (a bit blurry, sorry)
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picture
picture
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And, one last one for scale, again..
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It should be pretty obvious from these pics that I must, again, increase the width of the musket in order to make it properly castable in any volume. I tried to keep it as "in scale" as possible, but, unfortunately, I'll have to go thicker. And the darned shako disks aren't coming through so they'll have to be bigger too…. also the space between each individual fusilier needs to be a bit smaller.. but I think that's it.. AHHHHHH!!!!!!

Please feel free to critique and comment – I do always appreciate input of any form.

Thank You,
Bob

You aren't quite Willard Wigan yet but yer getting close!
Nice stuff. Better human proportions than most 28mm figs!

Holy crap! Those are cool. Great proportions and good animation.

I'm not a big fan of the thick strip bases, but that may have to be done for casting purposes. Are the musket barrels and bayonets vented properly? You might check on that before making them thicker.

Rod

Bob strikes again! Absolutely excellent! As Rod suggested, will the bases on the "final" product be thinner (if at all possible)?

Considering how many figures in other scales are often carrying telephone poles instead of muskets, I'm sure a little bit thicker will be fine if it becomes necessary to reduce the "broken bayonet syndrome".

By the way, I hope that's your girlfriend's hand, or have you been painting your fingernails pink! ;)

ohhh my and I thought my epic eldar were a pain to paint. has anyone painted 4 mm figs before? can you see after? are there rulesets for 4 mm?

I'm frankly amazed at how well these have turned out. The proportion and sense of movement is excellent, and the most important bits of uniform and equipment are there is enough detail and relief to paint up easily. Congratulations, and keep up the good work!

Cheers,

Christopher

willard-wigan.com/art.html

Willard Wigan btw, if you havent seen his stuff yet…

Well done indeed – the figures are better proportioned than many of the 28-28mm figures on the market.

I'll bet they will look tremendous for rules like Grande Armee or V&B with 100 figures on a base!

all the best

Barrie

They're coming along great!

The sense of true scale of conflict is already well expressed with seeing just one rank – I eagerly await pictures of some painted to get the full effect of the scale!

Cheers,
Paul "TuffSkull" T.
mercenarybrush.com

Anazing, how would you ever paint something like that?

Blatent, but tongue in cheek, Ad alert*

"Anazing, how would you ever paint something like that?"

You wouldnt…. you'd hire the Mercenary Brush to do it… ;o)

*ad over*

Serisouly, its a mental block which is the hardest part to painting small scale figures.

Painting small scales to a basic gaming level is actually EASIER in most cases than painting larger figures, as you can get away without smooth blending etc. Drybrushing works wonders on smaller scales where on bigger pieces it would look chalky.

Of ourse, you can also go to the other end of the scale & try as best you can to make them look as good as 28s – that takes a lot more work, but probably best leave that one to the nutters :oD

Whilst I've not gone below 6mm until now, I'm looking forward to giving something smaller a shot & I think they'll paint up very nicely.

Cheers,
Paul "TuffSkull" T.
mercenarybrush.com

Smaller?!? Would you get a free magnifying glass with the purchase of at least 1000 of the little lads? :)

I think they look fantastic, by the way. At 4mm, I can imagine doing 1:1 scale gaming using "Grande Armee" … OK maybe 5:1 scale, but still the mass effect using such small figures can be just as impressive (if done well) as the "big boys."

John

I think they're briliant. As has been noted: great work on getting the proportions that good.
I'dd love to see what you can do in 6mm (which is a scale I would buy).

Peter

Note the variety of positions (e.g. the legs on figures at one end of the strip; unless Inkbiz has been bending the castings with a tiny pair of pliers….), which works very well; will look great with greater numbers and hence more variant strips. Second what both R.C. and Q.V. write both about bases and muskets; initially thought "vented" had something to do with the detailing of firing-pans in the muskets. Re. the shako-plates/cockardes and other details, a degree of exaggeration/deeper modelling/higher relief is commonplace, and, with black underpainting, will surely give stronger definition if that's what wanted. Great work again; the horses will be quite a sight when they come trotting out (pitter-patter of tiny hooves). Incidentally, I notice you too use your fingernails to mix paints on….

Thanks for the input, gents.

Rodrick and Quintus (hi Sam!) – good points. The bases pictured are only 2mm thick, but if folks prefer them thinner then consider it done. I can probaly get them down to 1mm thick..

I'll be painting a few stips up this afternoon and posting pics. Paul is right, though – they are actually quite a bit quicker/easier to paint than larger figures.

Robert le Diable! Good to hear from you. Yes.. that pink nail polish belongs to my lovely gf. I only paint my toenails pink. ;-)

Err.. I was kidding about the pink toenails by the way..

Hi Bob

Great work as usual!! Can't wait to see the painted pics.

What is the length of the strip?? Looks like about 28 – 30 mm??

Ken

Hi Ken – How are you?

Thanks for the thumbs up. And great eye by the way! The length is exactly 29.5mm.

To get them more true to scale I'll need to shave the strip down a couple more millimeters though. I'd really like to see it fit on a 1" base.. thus allowing for a 2" company frontage (it's just under 1 and 3/16ths inches long now).

I hope all is well!
Bob

Ah i was about to message you to hurry up. Hadnt seen you post in at least a week.

Comming along nicely. Can you send me those rules you mentioned inkbiz?

superb, these are slipped under my radar – keep us posted Inkbiz.

just one question, why did you choose 1/500 rather than the more usual 6 or 10 millies – it would appear you'd do either scale proud!

'are' = 'had'

easy mistake to make ;)

Squeaky – do a search under Author in the message boards for 'INKBIZ' You'll find a couple of dozen threads about his project with all the info you could hope for. Makes for some very good reading as well!!

Ken

Cheers Ken, I'll do that :)

Bob

you said pics this afternoon 2 weeks ago!! Don't mean to rush you, …..but…..

Ken

Hope all is well with you.

Hi Ken,

I do apologize for the wait. I've actually spent the past two weeks (in between Neuroanatomy and Cardiology classes, mind you) reworking the details of the figures. Since I had to thicken up the musket a bit (a necessary evil – as evidenced by the above posted pics), and decrease the height of the base strip by 50%, I attempted to make the details of the figures a tad more "user-friendly", based on my own experience painting them. These minor changes included the slight enhancement of the crossbelts, backpack straps, and shoulder straps, a 50% increase in the size of the shako disk so it is castable, increasing the projection of the shako badge, and, since I had to make the muskets thicker, the addition of some minor details to the barrel of the musket, as well as a musket strap. Also, I decreased the depth of the base by 1mm (now it is roughly 2mm deep, as opposed to 3mm – which left 2nd and 3rd rankers standing too far behind their comrades in the preceeding ranks, according to the scale..), and made a few more poses… including a few fellows marching forward with both arms crossed over their muskets, and a few bent forward a bit more.. to look as if they are doggedly marching forward through a hail of lead! :-) Hehe.. sorry.. I get carried away sometimes..

At the time of this post, I am currently awaiting the 4th (and I do think final, unless something unplanned happens) update of the metal master strip with 9 figures on it. If all looks good, then the full 18 figure strips will be set up and ready to go into production.

I do apologize for the delay in posting the pics of the painted figures. However rest assured I have been trying to get these figures completed as quickly as possible, without risking the quality of the finished pieces. I am so happy to read of your interest in these little suckers – and, I have to say, I'm quite curious to see the final product myself hehe..

I'll try to have some photos up over the weekend. No classes, so I'll have some free time.. :)

Thanks, Ken!

Bob

Hi Bob

No rush and no pressure!! Just wanted to know if you were ok as we haven't heard from you in a couple of weeks, you are usually more talkative than that.

Ken

Thanks, Ken.

Odd thing, this internet, but I do miss reading up on the hot topics of our little hobby community when time does not permit it. It's amazing how quickly one feels "out of the loop"!

Cheers!
Bob

A very interesting project and fine work.

I made this the other night after the kids went to bed to test the new epoxy ‘Pro-Create', you can have it if you like. I haven't tested the vulcanizing character of the epoxy yet but it seems very good and fast for small work.

picture

Oooh! Now that's nice! Great detail there, especially for something you just "whipped up" after the kids went to bed!

If that's Napoleon, shouldn't he be 3 1/2 mm tall?

Just kidding, amazing figures.

"Great detail there"

The ‘Pro-Create' (a rather unfortunate name) is very impressive on the detail. The limit I came up against was what I could see under 5X magnification, which is the most I have. If I could have seen to work it the epoxy would have allowed for clear, neat buttons (the ones I made here are very irregular and crude, though you can't really see because the resolution on the camera isn't high enough) eyes with lids, nostrils, well defined lips and various other refinements which wouldn't cast in any metal I know of, except gold.

This figure took about 3 hours, I chose this subject because I'm busy before Gencon but I wanted to make something out of the Pro-Create before the show because I know people are going to be talking about it. I don't really like making anything smaller than 1/48.

"shouldn't he be 3 1/2 mm tall"

What can I say? Scale creep already. Anyway he is 3 ˝ to the eyes – loverly bird the Norwegian Blue, beyootiful pulmmage….

HOLY COW! That's a gorgeous pice!

I've been a longtime admirer of your work, Mr. Meier. The detail (most especially in the lay of the various fabrics, and their textures), grace, and animation that you give your figures requires a talent in a sculptor that is rarely found outside the world's small fine art community. Your incredible technique is evidenced by your 3 hour "just for fun" attempt: it simply surpasses anything I've attempted over months of practice..

May I ask how one works with this "Pro-Create" epoxy? I've never heard of it. I've been working in 50/50 mixes of fine to superfine milliput, then using x-acto blades, and various surgical scalples to carve the figures from the cured epoxy. It looks from this pic that you did this all before the epoxy hardened..? If so, how the heck did you do that?? :-)

Cheers, from a most humbled fan!

"this "Pro-Create" epoxy? I've never heard of it."

It's new, being made by some folks who split off the company that makes Kneadatite.

Robert Finkenaur
Kraftmark Company
P.O. Box 84
Spring City, PA 19475 U.S.A.
610-952-7750

Sent me a sample earlier this week. Several people are selling in on the web in the U.S. and U.K. already.

The Pro-Create works a bit like more fine, softer, stickier and more elastic Milliput. If you have been using Milliput you shouldn't have much trouble getting used to it. It doesn't carve down as well as Milliput but it's better than the green Kneadatite (‘greenstuff' or ‘green putty').

I used a peculiar technique on this piece which wouldn't work as well on most of the figures you are doing. You are right it is nearly all modeling and little carving. I first sculpted the front half of the figure on a piece of plastic, as if the plastic were a scan line cutting him in half, front to back. Then I heated him to cure, peeled him off, attached a thin piece of scrap metal into him (you can see it in the picture) cured the attachment and sculpted the other side. Then I applied pockets and buttons (quite crude as I couldn't see well) and of, course the Legion d'Honneur (which is just a bit of a blob on his chest really). My main problem was I'm not set up to sculpt anything this small, the little is about the size of a grain of rice and at 5X I could hardly tell what I was doing.

Send me an address and I'll put him in an envelope, if an errant puff of wind hasn't blown him away. You can see if this Pro-Create vulcanizes as well as it sculpts.

Hint: Inkbiz & T Meier get together. Today, the Miniatures Page. Tomorrow, the World!

Oh, and by the way, Mr. T. If that's something that you can come up with after the kids go to bed, send them to summer camp next year! ;)

Hi Mr. Meier,

That is extremely kind of you to offer – it'd be quite a learning experience to see an example of your pre-cast work in person.

As for the technique you employed on 4mm Boney – what a practical, professional, genius idea. I have been using Optivisor goggles with 3.5x magnification – may I ask what magnifier you employed? I was having a heck of a time with the horses for this scale – I wonder if your method would work better on them? It sure seems like it will help overcome my continued issue of snapping the poor beasts legs out from under them all the time with my exacto knife.

Thank you very much for sharing your experience and work. You are a true gentleman to offer such kindess and expertise so generously.

Sincerely,
Bob

"what magnifier you employed?"

I use a wide field dissecting binocular microscope with two settings 2.5X and 5X, it's a rather expensive rig with lights and all.

"I was having a heck of a time with the horses for this scale – I wonder if your method would work better on them?"

You'd have to employ it much more elaborately. I'd make a model on the plastic backing right through to the other side but obviously with only what could be seen from the one side finished, then cast it and carve down the other side directly in metal or shave it down to a frame and coat it with epoxy to finish.

"Thank you very much"

Think nothing of it, it's a pleasure to abet such an eccentric undertaking.

Have you thought about a motto for your scale.

"Because you can't get the detail in 2mm and if you're going to go all the way up to 6mm, well,… you might as well just join up with some re-enactors and be done with it"

Great work on the mini Tom. Bob told me about the 4mm figure and I was quite impressed. Clever idea on making the figure too.

As to vulcanizing, the material itself has been tested before on 15-28mm sizes and all that went well. I have seen casts from pro-create masters and they come out very well.

Oh, to avoid misunderstanding. The Bob in my mail is Bob Finkenauer of Kraftmark, not Inkbiz.
&Inkbiz, if you get the master, can you please try to make a detailed picture of the face. I'd love to see the details.

I don't mean to disappoint but there isn't any detail in the face except a nose, I just couldn't see to work. If I had 10 or better 20X magnification I could have put details on it, the Pro-Create will work that fine and it isn't really as hard as people think to steady your hands down. When I was a kid every carny show had a fellow who would write your name on a grain of rice or even the Lord's Prayer for a little extra. It takes skill to sculpt well in any size but scaling it down is just technique and tools.

I did put pockets on the coat and vest and tried to put buttons on the coat but again I couldn't see to work.

Tin alloys won't take that much detail anyway, now gold will cast the hairs on a fly's legs but people complain about the price of figures as it is : )

They're all out of step except the third guy from the right!

@Tom, you're still not convincing me you haven't found a way to shrink yourself to a size you are sculpting everything on a relative 1:1 scale. ;)

Ahh thank you for the motto, Mr. Meier… hehe. Shucks.. makes perfect sense to me! lol.

Mr. Meier is correct, Mimimaker – the details in the master won't come through in the tin once cast. I've found that anything under 5 inches in our scale pretty much is not discernable by the naked eye at 1/500 scale. In fact, the main issue I have been dealing with in sculpting and casting these figures is the necessary addition of excessive and exaggerated detail in order to give the appearance of any detail at all in such a small figure, once it is cast. Notwithstanding, I sure would love to see that little Napoleon cast in gold!

DonLowry – Yep, they all are slightly out of step with each other. The leg poses are actually a sequence of 6 segments of a single stride, leading from the left foot. I did that on purpose so they won't look like a line of wooden soldiers. When you see 100 of these little fellows together I am hoping it will lend the line a much more animated, and true to life representation of a unit in action. As per some of my earlier posts/inquiries I'm planning on increasing or decreasing the "parade-look" of the figures in step depending the unit type (guard, conscript, veteren, landwehr, etc..) and nationality.

Inkbiz, I can only say that it takes another obsessive person to truly appreciate the level of detail you have immersed yourself in … luckily you're in the right hobby to find an appreciative crowd! ;)

Keep up the good work.

Cheers,

Christopher

I am in awe of you both.

I will certainly be grabbing some of the new putty as son as I can & finding time to have a play with it myself.

Its a real shame that the detail which can these days be sculpted cannot be carried over into the final casts – painting something like that Boney would be an awesome challenge for me :oD

Keep up the good work – I'm still very much looking forward to taking a brush tosome of these someday!

Cheers,
Paul "TuffSkull" T.
mercenarybrush.com

Inkbiz, why don´t you put up a blog? You are a true inspiration and your pics are awesome. I´m already trying my luck at sculpting some 4mm "tolkienish" elves. (i never sculpted before!!)
It would be great to see your improvements without chasing your posts all over TMP :)

Cheers,
Guido

Thanks Chris, Paul.. very kind of you both. Paul I'd love to get some figures your way once they're completed.

Hi Guido. Thank you – I am hoping to put together a small site once the figures are ready to go. I've often toyed with the idea of doing some fantasy figures down the line – maybe some nasty orcs for your elves to slaughter! Good luck with your venture into this very interesting aspect of the hobby.

A site yes, but from a selfish position, a blog no. Here in China I can never get any website that's a "blog" (too much like freedom of expression, I suppose).