"Grenade Hugging" Topic

Okay, here's a Friday kind of question. The idea of a guy smothering a grenade with his body to save his companions has been around long enough to become a sort of cultural touchstone. I realized the other day, however, that I had never actually seen an account of this being done in real life.

1. Have you folks ever run across an instance of this happening?

2. How effective would a human body be at abating the force of a fragmentation grenade (and yes, I understand there are a variety of explosive grenades around…) How about a concussion grenade?

1. I've read a few Congressional Medal of Honor stories, they will crop up there.
2. I've never heard of any studies on the effects.

All were posthumus awards.

My understanding is that a Frag grenade holds a small charge so it isn't the explosion that kills people but all the metal bits so if a grenade is smothered it will limit the damage because the body takes the fragments.

Maybe this is something we should as the Myth Busters.

I've seen a few of the Medal of honor citations covering it to. Other than that I've never seen anything post Vietnam mentioning it.

One thing I do know is amazing as it sounds, grenades do sometimes fragment in a focused direction instead of scatering the fragments in the customay circular pattern. I've ready reports from around the world of grenades being thrown into small rooms to take out insurgents and such and the subjects survive with minor injuries. So modern day it might be possible under the right circumstances to survive the blast smothering one with your body as long as a good medic is on hand and a dust off is right there.

No I think if you are on it it will kill you! If you are in a room with it you have a chance as you said it is not a perfect weapon. I know I have read of this happening. One story from Vietnam I have seen recounted on something was a group of soldiers were sitting around and a new young guy fresh in from the states was walking up. The vets decided to have a little fun and one of them dropped a grenade with the pin still in it and they screamed "LIVE Grenade!!". They were expecting the new guy to hit the dirt and cover up. But he didnt do that he dove on top of the grenade. When it didnt go off he got up and the silent vets just put there heads down and looked away. The vet retelling the story said they became real close after that!

I can't quote of any cases in war, but there was a captain in the Dutch service it the 70's – when I was in – who did that. During a training he realized that one grenade was not a training one. He put his helmet over it, and covered it with his body to keep it down. The only (normally) visible result was the loss of parts of three fingers, where shrapnell nad penetrated the helmet.

True hero, that one.

Yes, it has happened. As mentioned, a number of MOH's have been awarded for this, usually posthumously.

Keep in mind, grenades come in many different versions, each country designing a weapon to match their tactical doctrine or a specific purpose. The US has traditionally viewed the grenade as a killing weapon, so ours have had large explosive charges with high fragmentation. I remember my instructor back in the late 70's telling us the type we were about to throw had a greater danger range than we could throw it. In the last few years, we have been employing smaller, less fragmenting concussion grenades for clearing builds and such. Many countries view the grenade as an assault weapon that is thrown by advancing troops to suppress the other guy as they close into bayonnet range. During the Korean War, there are several accounts of Chinese grenades going off in a foxhole, but not injuring the occupants. One soldier in the 5th RCT was throwing one back at his attackers when it went off in his hand and he only lost a few fingers.

I heard a story about some US marines and a grenade during the invasion of Iraq.

The marines were in a courtyard lying in a circle to cover all directions when a grenade came sailing over a low wall and landed dead center in the circle. There was no time for them to do anything but duck and cover. The grenade went off, but none of the marines were actually injured.

I find this story interesting, if true. But it could easily be one of those self-perpetuating myths that get circulated. Has anybody heard this one, and can you authenticate it (or debunk it)?

If lying in such a way, then their boots would be the first to catch any shrapnel if any. (keep the legs together!) Fairly little surface exposed to shrapnel and the shockwave.

A Bridge Too Far (the book) includes an account of this happening during the fighting in Arnhem.

Joe E. Mann – WW II Medal of Honor recipient
Milton Olive – VN Medal of Honor Recipient

During the battle of Hue in Vietnam a Marine threw himself on THREE grenades. He was fortunate that the enemy was using Chinese made Grenades and only the last went off. As I recall he survived as these were pretty poor devices and it broke into large pices which his vest absorbed for the most part. Another Marine on, I believe, Hill 661 North during Khe San received the Medal Of Honor for grabbing a grenade. he did not survive.

In Iraq a unit of Marines was clearing a building when the first man in a door was hit by terrorst fire. He was laying on the ground when a grenade sailed from the room. According to his buddies he saw the grenade land near him. He grabbed it, roilled over, and saved his buddies. He did not survive. I'm ashamed to say that I don't recall his name.

@ emau99

Its very possible for that to have happened. When the grenade explodes its blast is UP and OUT. Few if any of th efragments will travel parallel to the ground.

Hence, people chucking things at you that go boom, you drop to the ground and cuss the buttons holding you that much farther away from Mother Earth!

read the book called indestructible, its about a marine named jack lucas who covered a grenade with his body to save his comrades on iwo jima, he lived and got the cmh!

Smothering a grenade with one's own body to protect one's fellows sounds apocryphal but it has definitely happened.

I was maybe 11 or 12 when I last read any books on the WW2 Battle of Iwo Jima so it's been 30 years, but one detail that has stuck with me were descriptions of Marines who jumped on Japanese grenades to protect their squads and received posthumous Medals of Honor as a result. I am certain one book I read described more than one of these incidents so it happened at least twice and I'm thinking perhaps four times or more.

Trying to verify this, I note the Wikipedia article on Iwo Jima states there were 27 Medal of Honor recipients from that battle. And I found the following link which holds downloadable archives containing individual descriptions of every Medal of Honor recipient: members.aol.com/veterans/moh.htm

I downloaded the archive for WW2 which expands into 8 HTML files. Using my browser's Find function in each for the phrase "Iwo Jima", I counted 8 recipients from that battle who received the MOH for smothering grenades (one hero smothered two, seriously). I might have missed one or overcounted. I saw at least one other description of it happening in other WW2 battles.

the other day on miltary channel they had a medic from vietnam. he was tending wounded. there was a greande throwen at the wounded men. he jump on greane, the greadne did not go off.

he was awared the MOH. So at least one guy lived to tell the tail.

for all that its worth

The British Army still train to partially do this on body searches.

When you aproach a suspected enemy body to check if its dead or has intel you lie on top of it, your buddy aims at the head from the side, you then roll the body back while lying on it, your buddy shouts 'clear' if its not booby trapped. Should the corpse be holding a grenade (minus pin) down then you roll the body back on and hold it down to try and absorb the blast.

Cant say i fancy doing that for real…

ACtually, Japanese grenades were know to be very low power and it was commonly taught to just lie down with your boots to it- but there was a curious problem found in the Pacific in some US grenades.

The did not really go bang- but popped and essentially split in half. I have read account where the troops would double the charge in a grenade by pouring it in from a second for added ooomph.

I wonder if that was an effect of heat and humity more than a manufactire error as it did not seem to be so in the ETO, and US genade frags I have found are seldom very large.

Date: 19-Dec-1941 Hong Kong
Company Sergeant Major John Osborn of the Winnipeg Grenadiers, leading a bayonet charge against the Japanese on Mount Butler; throws himself on a Japanese grenade to save his comrades' lives; posthumously awarded the Victoria Cross.

Grenades can do strange things…

My father was in the NC Air National Guard. One of the men he worked with had been in Vietnam. He was on board a Huey retrieving soldiers from a dangerous area. He turned to look out the door and a grenade landed in his hand. Before he could throw it out, it went off. As I recall, the only long term damage he suffered was some damage to his hand and the inability to bear children. I don't know the details really on his injuries, but I think the story is worth mentioning here as it's an example of a close grenade explosion with non-fatal results.

Of course, the above story is from memory and second hand, so I could have some of it wrong. But I think it's pretty close.

During one of Pres Clinton's state of the union addresses he acknowledged a MOH recipient Marine who had jumped on a grenade at Iwo Jima. He was present in the Senate chamber. There was thunderous applause. Someone in the crowd(I am going to guess Rep. Bob Dornan ) let rip with a hearty 'Oooorah'!

One of the few times I was moved during Bubba's speeches.

Here are two more examples of MOH recipients. One actually picked up the device and held it against himself. Some trivia – both examples are from tiny rural SC towns that are only a few miles apart; of Liberty and Six Mile. Both of these twons produced two MOH receipients each, and they are perhaps two of the smallest towns to produce two MOH receipients. All four MOH recipients from our county were from these two towns, despite the presence of many much larger towns in the county. To put this in perspective, the state as a whole has produced a total of 37 MOH receipients (one being Freddie Stowers, the only african american to win the MOH from WWI, who also happens to be from a very small town only few miles from Liberty and Six Mile).

William A. McWhorter
Place and date: Leyte, Philippine Islands, 5 December 1944.
Entered service at: Liberty, S.C.
Birth: Liberty, S.C.
G.O. No.: 82, 27 September 1945.
Citation: He displayed gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty while engaged in operations against the enemy. Pfc. McWhorter, a machine gunner, was emplaced in a defensive position with 1 assistant when the enemy launched a heavy attack. Manning the gun and opening fire, he killed several members of an advancing demolition squad, when 1 of the enemy succeeded in throwing a fused demolition charge in the entrenchment. Without hesitation and with complete disregard for his own safety, Pfc. McWhorter picked up the improvised grenade and deliberately held it close to his body, bending over the turning away from his companion. The charge exploded, killing him instantly, but leaving his assistant unharmed. Pfc. McWhorter's outstanding heroism and supreme sacrifice in shielding a comrade reflect the highest traditions of the military service.

James D. Howe
Rank and organization: Lance Corporal, U.S. Marine Corps, Company I, 3d Battalion, 7th Marines, 1st Marine Division.
Place and date: Republic of Vietnam, 6 May 1970.
Entered service at: Fort Jackson, S.C.
Born: 17 December 1948, Six Mile, Pickens, S.C.
Citation: For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty while serving as a rifleman with Company I, during operations against enemy forces. In the early morning hours L/Cpl. Howe and 2 other marines were occupying a defensive position in a sandy beach area fronted by bamboo thickest. Enemy sappers suddenly launched a grenade attack against the position, utilizing the cover of darkness to carry out their assault. Following the initial explosions of the grenades, L/Cpl. Howe immediately shouted a warning and then threw himself upon the deadly missile, thereby protecting the lives of the fellow marines. His heroic and selfless action was in keeping with the finest tradition of the Marine Corps and of the U.S. Naval Service. He valiantly gave his life in the service of his country.

The US M11a1 ( pineapple grenade )had .75 oz of E.C. Blank fire powder in it.
The german stick grenade had 7 oz of TNT.
The Japanese stick grenade used 3oz of cast picric acid.

Quite interesting the reason for the US grenade using black powder. TNT was trie dbut it over-fragmented the grenade so they switched to black powder which gave enough band and simplified fusing.
I would guess also introducing the risk of high humididty reducing the effectiveness.

According to my reference.
The fuse on these japanese grenades were notoriously erratic and particularly so after storage in humid conditions. They were prone to going off straight away.
My reference also says that all japanese grenades had particularly erratic fuses.
The cast iron sleeve also made for effective fragmentation.
Doesn't say anything about less power from the explosive.
Maybe the picric acid went off over time.

Picric acid (trinitrophenol) is notoriously unstable, particularly in direct contact with metal components. usually picric acid in jap ordinance was sealed to stop this, but the sealant decays over time.

A major marshalling point for the jap navy within an atoll (cant remember its name) is littered with wrecks including merchantmen loaded with munitions, which for years after the war would explode seemingly without provokation.

Another US Marine, this time in Iraq, Cpl. Jason L. Dunham

22, of Scio, N.Y.; assigned to 3rd Battalion, 7th Marine Regiment, 1st Marine Division, I Marine Expeditionary Force, at Twentynine Palms, Calif.; died April 22, 2004 at Bethesda Naval Hospital in Bethesda, Md., of injuries sustained April 14, 2004 when he used his body to shield comrades from a grenade explosion in Husaybah, Iraq. He has been nominated for a Medal of Honor.

I agree with all of the above, Kevin. Yes, sometimes responses can get heated etc, but I don't think you should cease.

this story is true, one of my buddies was in the unit that the guy saved:
link

sorry to double post, that story is about a Sgt. who died in fallujah.

During the Vietnam war I happened to read this report of a grenade and a C-130 from my Detachment 2 of the 834th Air Division. It seemed the a/c was having avionics problems and the pilot a very decent old sweat named Major Norman Savauge turned over the controls to the co-pilot and left the flight deck to check out the problem. The avionics bay on the C-130 is directly behind and below the flight deck. All he found was a coca-cola cup and he picked it up cursing the slobs who had left it behind. Much to his shock he saw an unpinned hand grenade with the arming lever about to flop up. He grabbed the handle of the grenade and yelled for help. But given the noise level on a C-130 he went unheard. Finally the navigator was sent looking to see what happened to their major. The co-pilot declared an immediate inflight emegency and the navigator – another brave man braced him during the landing. The plane was evacuated and the bomb disposal team was called.

According to the eod technician doing the disarming even after safing it and reassuring Major Savauge it was safe, he still had such a death grip on the grenade it took two eods to pry his fingers off it. Finally the eod technician gave his professional opinion that if the grenade had exploded in the confines of the avionics bay it would have blown off the nose of the aircraft and we would have lost that tail number due to a crash.

I'll anticipate your questions by saying no I don't know if he got any award for doing that. That's my grenade story and the true story of the bravest, most flappable fellow I had the pleasure and honour to know in Vietnam.

wargamesinc, the Marine your thinking od is Seargt Rafael Peralta, he is the Marine that i mentioned in my first post on this topic.

There's a story from the LRRPs about a guy (name escapes me ATM) who smothered a grenade with his ruck. 70-odd pounds of gear, plus another 180-odd pounds of grunt, meant that the ruck took the full force of the blast, and none of the guys were hurt. As I recall, that young man got a Silver Star for his actions.

Read an account of a WW1 soldier winning the VC for placing his helmet over a fizzing grenade and standing on it to save the lives of his comrades. If IRC his name was sergeant Carmicheal and it was at the battle of Passendale near Hill 60.

Bob

The guy was blown over the parapet of the trench and suffered sever injuries to his lower limbs but survived…

Bob

Likely,a lot more dangerous than depicted on film(ex.-James Cagney near the end of "The Fighting 69th",covering a German "Potato Masher" to save Alan Hale Sr.)The dudes who've actually done it to save their buddies certainly are heroic.

Also Special Forces are trained when they check the bodies of the dead not to just kick them like you see in the movie but to lay on them and roll slightly so if he was holding a grenade the enemy would take the blast not himself.

Bother my post was re Frank 'One Arm' Sutton who got his nickname throwing back his fifth (or fourth?) grenade at Gallipoli…

A soldier in the 101st AB during Operation Market Garden, who was already seriously wounded (both arms useless) threw himself on a grenade to save a batch of other wounded soldiers sharing the same shell-hole. He was killed and awarded the CMO posthumously.

The German 'potato-masher' grenade came in a number of versions, but the most commonly used version produced very little shrapnel. It was intended to be a weapon that a charging soldier could safely throw *ahead* of him as he ran towards the enemy. It would stun the enemy prior to the assault. As such, you didn't want it throwing out a lot of shrapnel which might injure the man who threw it. Contrast this with the US 'pineapple' grenade whose lethal radius was about equal to the distance a man could throw it. A grenade like that, you threw and then took cover.

There has been mention of grenades going off in foxholes and not causing damage. The US Army manual of common tasks teaches you to dig a grenade sump on a sloped floor for just this case. I read Guadalcanal diary when I was a kid in school and there was a list of all the casualties in the back, quite a few from leaping on grenades and a few who survived the incident by using a sandbag as a shield.