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"Brunswick Artillery" Topic


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Comments or corrections?

miniMo23 Jun 2006 9:34 a.m. PST

We've had some discussion on Kingodm of the Netherlands Artillery being French or British pattern, which raises the question of the Brunswickers.

I've read they had 2 6# guns and 2 7# howitzers in 1809. But Prussian style (their general organisation was along Prussian lines) or Austrian style?

I've also read that they bought 12 guns from Prussia on auction after Leipzig. Did they bring these to Waterloo, were the 16 guns they had there Prussian or British style?

And limbers? Was a Prussian gun compatable with a British type limber?

And in 15mm is there any noticable difference between Prussian and French guns? From the line drawings I've seen, they look pretty interchangeable.

anleiher23 Jun 2006 10:40 a.m. PST

This discussion has also been on the Napoleon series. I can't speak to the 1809 era but the troops of 1815 fought with batteries (ex-Westphalian or French) purchased at a post Leipzig auction. So they would be French ordinance, presumably repainted post purchase. Having said that, I have also seen references to British ordinance supplied by the British though no confirmation for that.

Rudorff23 Jun 2006 10:52 a.m. PST

Definitely French style guns purchased post Leipzig. The report of the officer who bought them was on-line at one point. The purchase included all limers, caissons, forges etc etc.

Botham123 Jun 2006 10:53 a.m. PST

It's uncertain to say the least which guns hey used at Waterloo although it is most likely that the guns they used were the ones they bought after Leipzig. It is also possible that Britain supplied them to keep the supply system simple. Since it is really unknown you can take your choice as no one can say for certain what they used.

Personal logo Doms Decals Sponsoring Member of TMP23 Jun 2006 11:56 a.m. PST

The 1809 guns were Austrian, I believe. For the 1815 ones I'd definitely go with French guns myself, and opted for light blue carriages, although again references are, umm, somewhat hard to come by….

Dom.

donlowry23 Jun 2006 2:14 p.m. PST

From what was said on a recent post re this very question: the batteries at Waterloo were organized Prussian/French style (6 guns, 2 howitzers) were all 6-pounders (except the howitzers) and were either ex French or ex Prussian but not British. And probably painted in the Prussian color, which was light blue or blue-gray (tho a re-enactor posted a picture of their Prussian gun and it's rather bright blue, almost royal blue).

miniMo23 Jun 2006 9:04 p.m. PST

I'll go with French guns since if nothing else it makes things look more interesting. Though the reference I saw on the auction buy was 12 guns. Maybe they got 4 more from the Brits, or otherwise scraped up 4 more French guns before Waterloo?

Both Adkin and Bowden list 8 guns per company, no howitzers.

dbf167623 Jun 2006 9:15 p.m. PST

The Perry Bruinswick artillery sets have single trail guns. Are they wrong?

Personal logo Doms Decals Sponsoring Member of TMP24 Jun 2006 2:39 a.m. PST

Opinions vary, but mine is that yes, they're wrong. The Perry guns are British models, and while it's possible that they had British equipment, the weight of what evidence there is supports the French/Westphalian pieces.

Dom.

Mapleleaf24 Jun 2006 2:12 p.m. PST

heck out this site the research is superb abd the answer believable

picture

the conclusion is that the Brunswick artillery was composesd of ex-French/Westphalian equipment purchased after Leipzig. REplacement pieces could have been British but given the supply problems I doubt that any British guns were at Quatre Bras

Mapleleaf24 Jun 2006 2:14 p.m. PST

Here is a cleaner link

link

Personal logo Doms Decals Sponsoring Member of TMP24 Jun 2006 5:33 p.m. PST

Warning, long….

The following is a blatant cut and paste job from the sadly now gone website of a bunch of Brunswick artillery reenactors…. Happily I saved the file from Google's cache when the website first went down. Spelling is a bit ropey in places, but there's obviously been some homework done. Without access to their sources I'd not want to put money on the following being right, but I'll happily paint my soldiers based on it….


"The Duke had little personal knowledge of artillery, so he sent one officers, probably Major Von Lubeck the artillery
commander, to the military auctions held after the battle of Leipzig to purchase the artillery pieces required for one Horse and one foot battery. All the pieces brought where captured French and Westfalian, a total of 4 x 7 inch howitzers and 12 x 6-pounders and all the equipment to go with them.

The Uniform of the foot artillery was the same as the line infantry except for a few miner points. The shako had an exploding grenade as the badge, with an all yellow woolen 4 inch pompom. The tunic was of the standard infantry type, black dolman style, with a black collar, shoulder straps and cuffs edged in yellow. There is some evidence that the shoulder straps were in fact black lace piping, at present I have been unable to prove which is correct. Across the chest of the dolman were 10 rows of round black lace with a row of black glass buttons to fasten it. At each end of the lace where black woolen tassels. The Back of the dolman had two false pockets under the arms and black round lace along the seems. The Trousers were again black with a thin yellow stripe down the side were worn over the top of black gaiters and shoes.

The Foot battery consisted of: Battery Commander Major Karl Moll, Battery Captain August Venturini, Second lieutenants, Friedrich Bredenschey, Philipp Lemme, Christian Schult, 2 Surgeons, 1 Veterinary Surgeon, 3 upper ammunition
technician (Dreyhaupt, lightman, Kugler), 3 ammunition technician, 6 bombardiers, 4 Hornists, 1 Blacksmith, 2 Upholsterers, 2 Rademacher, 2 schmiede, 103 Kanoniere, 7 Trainunteroffiziere, 77 Trainsoldaten, 5 officer-served. 223 headings.

Cannon and Howitzer Statistics
Carriage and Caisson rear wheel Diameter 60 inch
Limber and Caisson front wheel Diameter 48 inch
Barrel Length Cannon 70" How 28"
Barrel Weight, Cannon 912 pounds, How 617 pounds
Colour, Woodwork – Light Blue, Metalwork – Black
Max Range Cannon 1500 yards, How 1200 yards
Canister Range Cannon 450 yards, How 600 yards
Effective Range Cannon 450 yards, How 600 yards

The Uniform of the Horse Artillery Battery was basically the same as the Hussars. The shako was the same as for the Leib Battalion but with brass chin scales. There is also some evidence that a small exploding grenade badge was
also on the shako below the death head. The dolman was black, with Collar and black cuffs edged in yellow, gold for officers. Above the cuffs were black Hungarian knots and across the chest of the dolman 14 rows of round black lace with 5 rows of black glass buttons. The seams on the back of the dolman and sleeves were also decorated with round black lace. The cord sash was yellow with
light blue barrels. Black overalls where worn with leather inserts, brass buttons and narrow yellow side piping. Hussar boots with screw-in spurs were worn under the overalls. Across the chest was a plain black leather pouch belt with brass rosette, chains and oval picker plate and the pouch was worn fitted with a white metal deaths head as on the Shako only smaller. The Horse artillery battery consisted of; Battery Commander Captain Von Heinemann, 2 upper ammunition technicians (Bath, Koertge), 3 ammunition
technician, 6 bombardiers, 4 Trumpeter, 2 Mounted Blacksmiths, 2 Upholsterers, 80 Kanoniere, 1 Trainwachtmeister, 3 Trainschirrmeister, 60 Trainsoldaten, 6 officer-served. 177 headings."

Cheers,
Dom.

Steven H Smith24 Jun 2006 5:59 p.m. PST

The excellent Web site is still available at:

braunschweiger-feldkorps.de

It is in German.

Personal logo Doms Decals Sponsoring Member of TMP25 Jun 2006 12:23 a.m. PST

Superb – thanks – my German is virtually non-existent, but I shall have to persevere with ploughing through that one…. :-) There used to be an English language site, and it does indeed appear to be a straight translation from the link you've just posted – would explain a few of the odd word choices in the text posted above as well.

Dom, well pleased. :-)

Buckeye AKA Darryl21 Jan 2016 8:05 a.m. PST

This is a great post…I just did a search on Google advanced search and came across exactly what I needed for Brunswick artillery info. We should be able to +1 AND sticky this!

Oliver Schmidt11 May 2022 2:25 p.m. PST

Porte-Epée Fähnrich Dehnel, 1809 in the artillery of the corps of the Duke of Brunswick, writes that the artillery material was taken in April 1809 from the fortress of Josephstadt (today: Josefov). "Everything was equipped completely according to Austrian regulations":

link

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