"Foundry going under????" Topic

I have heard from a very reliable source that Foundry is in serious financial straights and will go out of business at the end of the year. Can anyone confirm or deny this?

Just looking at their site they have just listed some stock as running out and claim the molds won't yield anymore. They give no indication they will be redoing the molds.

IN the past they have mentioned that they would be redoing the molds.

This could be an indication of things to come, but I've heard about this possibility for several years now.

The owner certainly can't be having money problems. Mr. Ansell is a millionaire. An acquaintance of mine knows the owner, and when I've asked what's going on with Foundry, I've been told that the owner has been dealing with personal health issues, and to some degree, his heart just isn't into the business at the moment (probably due to his health issues, and all the people who jumped ship; apparently he's not easy to get along with). Personally, I'd also like to really know what the future holds for Foundry. I have many standing orders with the company, and yet have seen very little in the past year, but continue to see on the website precast models offered from ranges I have standing orders on. This has really put me off (customer loyalty means nothing, I guess) and I'm probably going to cancel my orders.

I wouldn't be too suprised. Their releases have slowed to a trickle. It seems to make up for lack of output, they offer "horde" army deal after deal. Don't get me wrong, I love their figs, always have. I even own several of their lines. But it seems after losing so many people pursuing their own projects (Perry's, Artizan), they can't seem to put out the same level and amount of quality work.

We will have to wait and see. Their pricing doesn't help them either. Not with so many other competitors offering the same quality at lower prices these days.

The Foundry has more figure ranges from the past than most new companies. In addition, they are all "top-of-the-line." Most were designed by the Perry's. Unless there is some contractual dispute, a normal company should be able to survive using the revenue from those in some form I would think. Every time some company releases figures from a range they made, if I buy them, I look to see if the Foundry range from that period is available, because a unit or two of Foundry figures never hurt any army! I don't see how they could fold.

Yes, everyone's been half-expecting this for some time (say eighteen months). Then again, they haven't actually gone bust in that time, so who knows?

Its true that they now have much more serious competition than they used to. I've just discovered Front Rank, and I would say their casting quality puts Foundry's to shame while still allowing me to buy single figures at much better prices. I just can't see the Foundry SYW range beating Front Rank's or Crusader's stuff. And I'll be spared all the "will they, won't they" nonsense about pre-casts.

For all the quality of past releases, Foundry seems bound and determined to piss off A) their customers, and B) their sculptors. That doesn't seem like a viable business plan to me.

"I don't see how they could fold."

Believe me, as a former employee, they CAN fold.

They have had NO sculptors for almost a year now.

They have never really recovered from the effects of the move from Guernsey to Nottingham, particularly in their ability to consistently fill orders without often horrendous errors taking months--if ever--to be resolved.

When I last spoke to Management, to tell them why I felt sales to North America had collapsed, I cited the constant price increases. I was actually told--straight faced--that there have been NO price increases in over two years. When I asked how the number of figures in packs could be reduced--at least twice in the last year--without increasing the individual figure price, I was met with silence.

I am no longer in the position to get the latest news--and gossip--from Nottingham, however it does seem at least plausible that the end may be in sight.

Oh, if that sad day comes, don't expect any Foundry figure lines to be sold to any other company. It is generally understood that the owner will take everything with him rather than see even the chance that someone else might do well from "His" property. He experienced such once before with an entire company, and he will not abide such an effront again.

I do worry for himself and fine family, but any change of practice seems impossible. I look for a "Bunker Scene" one day, and it won't be pretty.

A rumour is worth what you paid for it.

Now if only they would relase that SYW of 10mm range before they fold.
William

Boy that sentance made no sense what I meant to say was. Now if only they would relase that SYW 10mm range before they fold.
William

I think I will shut up now before my spell check program sues me for un-employment.

Boy that sentance made no sense what I meant to say was. Now if only they would relase that SYW 10mm range before they fold.
William

Have'nt we heard all this before. I too have standing orders including books which seem unlikely to see publication. But isn't Foundry sitting on a huge back catalogue of figures that it can release when it wants

I don't know how the contract for the designs and figures was structured with the designers (the Perry's for example). I was told once that it was an ownership that gave the Perry's a minority share...just barely, and that it was sneaky and lead to the severing of relations. That means that they can't control how the figures are sold, marketed, etc., but they still get a share of the profits. However, if they were to close up rather than continue to sell the figures, I believe that deprivation of income without the requirement for it, might be grounds for a suit to recover the figures unless they signed something when they extricated themselves from the Foundry. And Mexican Jack, you're right, this rumor is worth what you pay for it. Hell, the way I ranted, I may owe you money.

Would not surprise me if Foundry goes down. They are much like GW. Their miniatures are very nice, but their prices are simply ridiculous.

I too hope they don't go under. Granted, figure price as with quality is high; but I have had great experience with timely delivery and even returns/exchanges. I always look forward to their newsletters for new product or packaging groups. Rumors are always funny things.

I no nothing of the inner working of Foundry but I wish Foundry and its employees well. Because the per figure price is much higher than Old Glory, I own very few Foundry figures. If they do go under I would like to see another company pick up the molds and inventory.

A general note-My perception of any successful gaming company going belly up is that new companies and products are eventually spawned. The talented people (sculptors, artists, and writers) that depart like so many spores on the wind are allowed to branch out into new creative projects. Figures are sold by companies but are designed by people. I mourn the loss of great people more than any great company.

As much as it pains me to say this, I wouldn't be sad to see them go. Somewhere down the line companies like this need to learn that you can't just arbitrarily do some things (like raise prices) without repercusions. I know I was considering getting into historicals several years back...until Foundry decided to raise their prices AGAIN from $12 a pack to $18 a pack (this, on top of another price increase just a few months earlier). I thought GW was ridiculous in pricing, but looking at some of the Foundry's releases is just nuts. Slaine and Uko for $18.00. Geez. I ended up switching to Black Tree designs stuff (formerly Harlequin). They're as good and the prices are about half that of Foundry's stuff.

As a 15mm gamer, I don't personally care what happens to Foundry. What I do care about is that this topic is posted on every board I've visited - giving me the impression that there is something new since I last visited. Come on, guys, give me a break - isn't this a Consumers Affairs topic?

Mexican Jack Squint 22 Apr 2003 09:03:24

A rumour is worth what you paid for it.

*NJH: I'm definitely getting the worth for which I paid. Sometime soon, someone will blame GW for Foundry's failure.

Cheers

It may all be a Foundry ploy to get us to stockpile .

It reminds me of an old cartoon that had two owners standing outside a shop with a "closing down sale" sign . One was saying "If this doesn't work, we might have to close down".

Mind you , wouldn't it be great if someone else , like EM4 got hold of the moulds . You could buy any figure you want. In the quantity you want . At a reasonable price .

It would break my heart to see Foundry go under. But when you continualy raise prices and piss off your North American retailers its hard to stay afloat. The sad fact is that America has the largest "disposable income" per capita in the world combined with its large number of gamers means that if a company losses its American market it is in dire straits. If Foundry fails it would be a sad day, I love their figures and I am willing to pay their prices for their figures. Foundry is important to the hobbie and were responsible for making Victorian Adventure Gaming popular with their "Darkest Africa" line and Pirate Gaming popular with their line of "Cutthroats". But as allways the Hobbie will survive the loss of a company, even Foundry can be replaced. Despite Foundry's incredible miniatures they seemed to have lost a large portion of their market. Americans are now buying Artizan, Crusader, Coppelstone and Perry Brothers miniatures, all offer great Foundry-like figures at a cheaper price without compramising quality. The Foundry has lost America, its largest market, and will be hard pressed to recapture it with out doing something crazy... like lowering prices.

Only ever bought from them when they did there half price ranges,( not noticed them do that for a while ) I picked up about 500 Imperial Romans, and even then I was cheesed off for a while while I sorted out how many weapon packs I had to buy only to realise the weapons came with them DOH. ( I hate this policy of weapon packs and weaponless figures )

I always liked looking at there figures in magazines etc, but the price was pretty disgusting ( Im talking a few years ago now ) Never really understood why they went the GW way with blisterpacks with nicely cut foam padding, id rather have cheaper figures than pretty packaging..

I may be wrong here, but I always remember Foundry being the 1st to follow the GW method of packaging and high prices.. though I dont want them to close down and lose the ranges and maybe put families in difficult situations, but hopefully this will send a message to the would be Foundry / GW clones out there ( and theres a few ) that even the mighty fall and hopefully more good than bad will come of this. ie. Bring down those terrible high prices so I can buy more figures.

Just to throw in another viewpoint. From what I have seen on this side of "the Pond" Foundry are claiming to be remaking moulds for the ranges they have withdrawn and they are reducing prices with the Hordes deals (less than $1.20 a figure here) and the 12 strong "bulk" packs. Despite the increase in competition (surely to be welcomed?) particularly from the Foundry-ettes, Foundry still have the largest range available in that quality. Does not seem to be a disasterous position to me...

Adam

Cripes couldn't post this on enough boards? Can you say OVERKILL!

Ageed Tabletop.. more weight to the cross posting thread created the other day.

Is America the largest market? I always thought there were more total Gamers in England.

I have yet to buy any Foundry figures because tehy are sold only in Bulk Packs (which means I may have to buy 10 figs I don't want to get 2 that I do want) and the prices are high (especially in combination with point 1). I can get very nice 54mm figures for the price of Foundry 25s. As a skirmish gamer I know where my money is going. For bulk armies I can get a bettwer look and price in 15 and 6mm. No wonder I haven't bought Foundry. I do like 25s and would buy Foundries if I could get them as singles or smaller group packs.

I wonder how one would go about finding who has more gamers: UK or US? There isn't exactly a census for gamers. It'd be interesting to know.

We could have a poll with the choice to vote on UK or US

This rumour has been around for ages, and nothing has happened. Why don't you check the old threads. It is my opinion that topics of this nature are utterly malicious. It seems that many of you would like them to fold just so you can get your grubby hands on their minis at a discount.

Shame on you all.

Yes, shame on me. Dibs on the SYW Prussian Hussar command packs!

I personally would be saddened by Foundry's departure . . they've set a very high standard over the years and were the first to consistently have pics of their painted models in their adverts. This was a huge benefit - I hope others that take their place keep up the visual quality at the same volume that they did.

But those who said it are right - their prices are a bit ridiculous. nonetheless irristable.

And I wonder if that's a fair comparison - Foundry to GW - sure both offer huge ranges, and are expensive but Foundry didn't have it's own universe and game like GW does.

If anyone wants pursue the similiarities between the two it would be an interesting read I think . . .

It is funny though, as a kid with a modest allowance I couldn't afford to do a whole army in Foundry but now with a fair income I still can't!

MR Ansell very rich but very foolish to think that adult gammers could be fooled by price hike. We understand greed and a con. Less figures same price then raise the price!

Unfortunately for the foundry the competition has increased and we do not like made idiots of. Goodbye foundry.

Its not so much a question of whether Foundry will go under but ..who cares?

I havn't bought a figure off them for 5 years or more.expensive, marginal non historical ranges,and erratic releases.

maybe they will go 'pre-bankrupt'?

Dibs on their German Fallschirmjagers and AWI militia!

Shame on me indeed. They used to be a major influence and standard in the industry. Now they just inflate prices, slow their releases to a trickle, entice us with "deals" and do not support half of what they say they are going to. Foundry has lost its place in importance due to many of its competitors rising to and exceeding a standard they used to set. If they go under, well, then thats a shame, but there are rising stars to take their place. If they fail because Ansell drove away his talent pool, then serves him right.

Pardon my spotty knowledge of GB gaming, but is this Ansell one of the GW old guard? I know there has been shuffling in the "evil empire", as Jervis Johnson was once a mover, now heads Fanatic, seems to be an outsider. Could someone enlighten a poor colonial?

To pick up on an earlier point, I too have read on other threads before that Foundry have a large stockpile of unreleased figures (comments that appear to come from former Foundry employees/sculpters). If the company is in difficulties, and it's hard to believe they're not, surely releasing some new product would help especially as until the recent SYW release they haven't done anything for over a year.

I particulary like the Street Violence figures and picked up on a comment made in an earlier thread that this range certainly had a large number of unreleased figures. I have a standing order for SV and have on several occasions in the last few months asked when ordering other figures if there was another release due (mainly because I didn't want my Visa clobbered for a standing order if I'd just placed a separate order) and on each occasion have been told that a new release was due in a fortnight, a month or a couple of months.

Another point on their pricing structure. Yes their prices are high, but I can live with that, but I' not an historical gamer. That's where it falls down. The only way to get a bit of a discount is to buy a collection and that seems pretty pointless if you want to build a regiment of infantry. They should bring back their sliding scale of discounts (and reduce their prices a bit).

I like Foundry's figures and it would be sad to see the go, but they SERIOUSLY need to rethink their strategy and stop treating the customers like morons.

"MR Ansell very rich but very foolish to think that adult gammers could be fooled by price hike. We understand greed and a con. Less figures same price then raise the price!"

Remember this is the same Mr Ansell who still thinks miniatures are too cheap.

Foundry went well outside of my price range last year when we got less figures per pack and their postage costs went up. I'm sure I'm not the only customer they lost.

I have heard a rumor that certain back stock figures will never be released because the owner does not wish to pay the sculptors royalties. I have also heard about a certain set of sculpting brothers taking half of every mold they made with them until they were paid moneys owed to them. Lastly, I have heard that pre-casts were simply the masters, and that selling masters is one sure sign of financial distress.

Just a little more grist for the rumor mills!

RagofTag, yes, Mr. Ansell is the same Bryan Ansell who used to own Citadel Miniatures (Managing Director) and a good part of GW. He was bought out (pushed out?)in '91, after nearly running the company into the ground. Maybe that explains everyone's comparison of Foundry and GW with their exorbitant pricing?

Dear Nudspinespittle,You are correct that it is the same Bryan Ansell, but well off the mark by suggesting he had run the company into the ground.He sold the very healthy business to Tom Kirby who was then General Manager.Bryan was the founder and owner behind Citadel Miniatures,who then bought Games workshop.Mr Ansell, though not always popular,ran a remarkable business, I would love to know where the idea he "ran the company into the ground"comes from.Please tell me how that is so?Lets not confuse our passions and opinions with facts. Thanks

For what it's worth.

We've all heard those yarns about pricing, release policies, good service, bad service etc. pp. ad nauseam. As long as we don't get a verifiable message from the Man (Ansell) himself (like the now legendary 'miniatures are too cheap') there's really nothing to be added there. Basically just rumormongerng. Might help to work off individual frustrations, but it doesn't help a - let's say - concerned community.

Yes, Mr Ansell was once the head honcho and prime mover of GW/Citadel. And it appears, this was his prime.

The relocated Foundry had some interesting ranges going and even more interesting stuff in planning stage, like Victoriana (remember that subscription threesome of hero and heroines never actually released?). The Perrys' WWII range never was really fully developed, IMHO. Obviously, it all went down the drain and several people voiced it was due to the sculptors falling out with the boss. Real shame there.

Foundry's biggest assets were Mark Copplestone and the Perry brothers (veterans the lot, so rather obvious). All went solo and we can now enjoy their artistry with full returns into their own pockets. Which is a good thing.

I think, von Strudel mentioned up there somewhere Foundry hasn't had a sculptor working for the Foundry now for a solid year. If that's true, then it's rather impressive (and a bit contradictory) they still churn out Orcs and other odds and ends. Imagine, everything they now release is more than a year old. Does that mean, Kev Adams and others worked their backsides off with no sleep and damaging amounts of coffee just to get all this stuff to preproduction stage? Or is everything we now see on the Foundry site just conversions by the 'last of the faithful', aka Kevin Dallimore?

Viz the SYW Prussians and Russians. Quite a few of them were done by Mark Copplestone when Foundry was still Guernsey Foundry. Nevertheless, some appear to be newer. Bad company policy? Or just the as of recently chaotic release policy?

The site now mentions that the just rereleased Crimean, TYW and ECW ranges are low in stock and running out rapidly. True or just a ruse for the customers to stockpile?

Does it really matter? I think not. As somebody else mentioned here, Foundry once set standards in the hobby/business. With the huge influx of small companies working to GW/Foundry style and excellency (if not to the well-supported game/background/minis-interface) Foundry have become a dinosaur. And it appears, the company/the boss has retired into a corner to sulk.

They still do the occasional gem. The Troll women are brill, so are the Orc ladies. Some of the Dwarfs are fantastic. the Orclings a real nice laugh, the SYW Russians really interesting, as are their Prussian counterparts. But it doesn't add up. I think, what we're talking here is about the difference between gamers and collectors. Foundry seems to be drifting ever more in the direction of the collector's provider. In that vein, one can easily pay oodles for a single miniature. Just don't go and think of buuilding armies with their goods.

How about someone start a poll whether Foundry will survive 2003 or go under?

I bought the Copplestone Caesarian romans. It's a shame they will never finish this line, the figs are great.

Like any business in a crowded market, Foundry has to adapt and deal with the competition to survive. Currently Foundry seem unwilling to do that (i.e. lower prices, make their product better value than the competition etc). Losing all their experienced sculptors bar Kevin Adams is clearly a body blow, not least because they seem unable or unwilling to re-release much of their back catalogue (have they lost all their casters and mould-makers too?). As for why it has taken them over 5 years to get the 7 Years War going - who knows? And the whole "pre-cast" idea is clearly a sign a desperation; I have no idea who buys these as they would seem to be training models, conversions and bits and pieces from incomplete or cancelled ranges. In short - no coherent business strategy here and no idea of what customers want.

My point is that clearly something has gone very wrong and unless the MD tells us exactly what is happening we can only guess. Bryan Ansell is an experienced MD. The buy-out of Games Workshop ten years ago was indeed brought about after the business had been stagnating for some time post-flotation, and since '91 GW has been far more profitable (look at the financial statements and, for example, any of the reports on the Financial Times website). GW has succeeded by defining its market and concentrating on specific targeting of that market. and by giving the customers what they wanted, which is essentially a one-stop-shop. Foundry needs to do the same, but unfortunately its management seems unable to decide what kind of company Foundry wants to be now that its position of pre-eminence has slipped. (Incidentally, while it is very difficult to work out from the filings exactly who or what owns Foundry, the staff in Games Workshop stores don't seem to be in any doubt that GW owns it).

Personally, I still buy Foundry stuff as it is among the best on the market and I am prepared to pay for that (although I am quietly seething that I spent a large amount of money on the Colonial India and the Ceasarian Roman ranges only to see the ranges taken out of production and terminated respectively; Foundry need to address these issues.) And yes, I am now stockpiling on Foundry AWI I'm afraid - the Perry's move to sculpt Continental infantry for their own company is worrying, given all the Continentals they sculpted for Foundry). I hope the company survives: the hobby would be much poorer without Foundry, not least because their back catalogue contains so much excellent material.

If Bryan Ansell reads this - please tell us what is going on. The survival of your company depends on us buying your product; we deserve to know.

GiloUK - you have obtained a copy of the Foundry company accounts and shareholder list then?

von Strudel,

I read on TMP, about them change the number of figs in a blister. But I can not find any mention of this on their page. I can not find anything saying how many figs are in a given blister. On the other hand they have removed the photos. Is it possible that this is just some ranges? When I e-mailed them they replied that they would be removing one mounted figure from their late medieval ranges. Any thoughts?

Tafalger, my information comes from an insider who is friendly with many of the people in the studio. They all respect Bryan (as do I, I consider him the "man of ideas"), but they felt he couldn't focus, and was trying to do too much with the company (Does anyone remember Warhammer Records label?) The company ran into some trouble in 89-90, and he was "pushed out", as I was told. Many still say he's "barking mad".

Cornelius - yes I have. UK registered companies are required to file shareholder and financial information at Companies House; it is public domain information and quite readily available (GW's accounts can be accessed on their web-site). However, the point is that where there are numerous companies at differing levels in a group (some of which may be "hiding" under non-related names) it is often difficult to track the reality of where profit/ownership goes without access to more detailed information. Bryan Ansell is the majority shareholder of Foundry Miniatures Limited, but who knows what (if anything) lies behind that. None of the filings I have seen explain why there seems to be a common perception that GW owns, or at least has a control in, the Foundry business; that perception may of course be entirely false.

As an ex-employee of Foundry,indeed as an ex Manager of both Guernsey Foundry and the re-located Foundry in Nottingham, I am perhaps in a unique position to offer some input to the current discussion. I must firstly state that these opinions are based purely on my own observations and may have no basis in fact.

I departed Foundry two years ago after discovering that I had developed cancer and would require both surgery and a treatment regime that would eat into my time to such an extent that I would be unable to give 100 per cent to developing Foundry and it's products. My battle currently continues.

I left on good terms with Bryan Ansell and his business partner Keith Pinfold and still keep very occasionally in touch. However it has to be said that my relationship during the last few months with Bryan in particular was considerably strained due to differences in the companys strategic planning for the future and had I not left of my own accord my demise was in any case inevitable.

While Foundry was in Guernsey I had been allowed to 'manage' Foundry in the true sense of the word. It may sound immodest of me to say so, but I always feel this was Foundrys golden period. Bryan was much more prepared to take a back seat and allow me to handle the day to day dealings with sculptors, painters, advertising and publishers etc.
He was always there with good advice but was also prepared to listen and even implement suggestions from myself and others like any good MD.

This all changed when we moved the business to Nottingham.
I sold up my home in Guernsey and uprooted my family to make the move such was my faith in the company.
I could go on for hours and bore you all rigid but I'll cut straight to the point about why I think Foundry have declined in fortune.

Firstly I don't believe it's anything to do with their pricing policy, having said that I'll quickly add that this doesn't necessarily mean I agree with the way that policy was handled. But in any industry those who produce goods of exceptional quality should expect to reap the rewards of their efforts. Outstanding sculptors like Michael and Alan Perry and Mark Copplestone do not come cheaply, neither do the best mould makers, casters, and the necessary machinery and plant. Bryan, for all his faults was committed to paying all these people a fair and christian wage.
The truth is if we'd have offered our figures free of charge somebody out there would have complained that we hadn't painted them for him.
The second myth I can lay to rest and this one should interest GiloUK is that there is no connection between Foundry and GW.
Yes Bryan did own Citadel, and did sell out GW back in '91 and yes Bryans business partner Keith Pinfold was once the company accountant for GW but that's it, there is no further connection either personnel or financial that I know of-------honest !!

The main reason Foundry have gone into freefall is very simple and is the one I would have lost my job trying to prevent from happening. Over a long period we had built up a clientele of loyal historical customers and we simply abandoned them in favour of producing Orcs, Elves and Cherubs. That is not what the Foundry customer base was interested in. This also alienated the best of the Foundry sculptors. The pill was sweetened by the occassional historical release but as far as Bryan was concerned the die was cast and fantasy took centre stage.
Business suicide in my humble opinion, but my opinion was quite obviously no longer important. Bryan had made his decision.

It seems simplistic to state this as the only cause of Foundrys problems and I could go on to suggest many others but this decision had implications that affected not only our established customer base but our sculptors as well.
Anybody who runs a miniatures company knows that from a product point of view the company can only be as good as it's sculptors are skilfull, and if you have skilfull sculptors established as a part of your team only a fool would rock the boat unnecessarily.
The reason the Perrys left to do their own thing is very simple, despite all the conspiracy theories. As everyone knows the Perrys real job was being employed by GW making fantasy figures. The twins work for Foundry was on a part time basis and was more to satisfy their own interest in making historical figures to provide armies for their own wargaming needs. We all benefitted from the arrangement.
GW were alright with this provided that the Perrys did not produce figures for Foundry that were of a fantasy nature.
The Perrys stuck to this agreement absolutely and as far as I know were never asked to produce fantasy for Foundry. . However this new direction for Foundry left the Perrys in a slightly difficult moral position and was paramount in hastening their decision to sever ties with Foundry and go it alone. There is some question as to who owns all the original masters that the Perrys produced for Foundry, and I know that discussions have taken place between Bryan and the twins, however I am unaware of their progress.
Alan and Michael are superb sculptors and seem to be doing very nicely in their new venture. I wish them great success.

I would be saddened to see the demise of Foundry, I put five years of hard work into building it up, and would have liked to see it prosper and grow. I think they need to go back to basics, concentrate on historical figures to try and win back their old customer base, listen to their customers, talk to their customers, and yes if necessary trim their costs and therafter their retail prices.
the only forward for Foundry is to get back to their roots, forget trying to be a second GW, and to learn that if you have talented staff, for goodness sake try listening to them Bryan ! after all isn't that what you're paying them for ?
Bryan Ansell has been demonised in the hobby for a while now but he's actually not that bad a guy. His greatest weakness is to blindly plough his own furrow to satisfy a huge ego when all around him are telling him he's taken the wrong direction.
Bryan has enough wealth to keep Foundry going just as long as he sees fit, and as long as he derives some pleasure from it all. I for one hope he succeeds in pulling it around because the hobby would be very much worse off without Foundry.