"Flames of War with GHQ? Anyone?" Topic

I'm considering buying the Flames of War rules set as an introduction into WW2 land based warefare. My son is old enough now to join me and has shown some interest in WW2. We play a mix of games, mostly Sci-fi (40k, Orge, Battlefleet Gothic)

However I am balking at the prices of the Flames of war Minatures. While the quality seems high I just can't justify another 300-400 bucks per 1500 point army like I have with 40K. (I have to build both sides so it's twice as expensive)
So I was thinking about GHQ models (love their WW2 naval line) for the Flames of War rules set, has anyone gamed it this way and if so what were any problems encountered?

Also a question for the players of Flames of War, What rules books would I need to purchase to have a complete game? Seems like there are dozens of them. We are looking towards playing USA vs Germany 43-45 time period.

Last question, (sorry about being so long winded) but can you guys recommend any other good introductory rules that I might try instead> (I'm teaching my 11 year old boy so it can't be too complex)
Thanks,

Buckaroo

I see no problem using 6mm GHQ with FOW. I do not do it personally, but I have heard of people on this board doing it. The ranges would probably look mor erealistic.

As for playing '43 – '45, you only really need the main rule book. Battlefront has not yet released their late war books. They call '42-'43 Mid war, so you could use those as starting points. I'd reccomend waiting as the late war books are coming out sometime soon. You can also just use the army lists in the book and not buy any suppliments until the late war stuff comes out.

If you do want to buy the suppliments now:

-Stars and Stripes: This coveres US infantry and armoe forces in '43. You could use them for Italy.
-Stalingrad: Soviet and German Infantry divisions
-Hitler's Fire Brigade: German motorized and panzer units, also covers Italy.

FOW is good for what you want, but alternatives for beginners I'd reccomend:
- Crossfire: 1 stand = 1 squad, 1 vehicle = 1 vehicle. Like GO, simple to learn, but lots of tactical flavor. No rulers and you can memorize the rules quickly.
- Blitzkrieg Commander: 1 stand = 1 platoon or squad. Based on Warmaster command mechanics.

Both have web sites and Yahoo groups.

Good luck!

-Patrick

I can offer you a bit of hearsay:

Concerning 6mm, I've heard people (fans of smaller scales, and also some disinterested observers) say that FoW looks even better – makes more "visual" sense, so to speak – in 6mm (or even 10mm) than in 15mm. If you're already familiar with the "rigors" of smaller scales, it's apparently something to consider.

I'm not a player, but I've looked over the system a number of times at the shop :) – you only need the core rulebook and whatever supplements/"codices" pertain to the armies you want to play with. For starters, about 3 books I would think.

You'll probably get just as many recommendations to start out with FoW as any other set, as an introductory game, since you and your son are already familiar with 40K and apparently the "vibe" is similar even if the particulars are not.

my 1 cent

Eric

See what uninformed hearsay is worth? I retract my statement about the rulebooks in light of Patrick's comments.

Eric

Going with 10mm scale would roughly half the costs of 15mm scale and the minis are a lot easier to see than the 6mm stuff.

Try the "Blitzkrieg Commander Lite" rules download from their website and see how you like them.

Another option might be 28mm skirmish with something like Disposable Heroes.

If you plan to buy FoW, wait a couple months if you can, they plan to release a second edition rulebook and two compendia of army lists (one Eastern Front, one Western Front) that have all the data from the various books to this point.

FOW has downloads, called Intelligence Briefings, for late war forces available on their website. You only need the core rulebook plus the downloads to play US v German '43-45.

The late war briefings have been taken down, unfortunately. The good news is, the "official" late war rules will be coming out soon!

Start with just the core rule book. Use the forces outlined there but paint them for late war. Then, if you like the game, consider additional purchases.

And oh yes, their binding sucks. Take it to Kinko's and have it spiral bound for $6. USD

Mark "Extra Crispy" Severin
Owner, ScaleCreep.com
Author, DeepFriedHappyMice.com

Just to clarify the FOW "codices" add chrome with extra rules and slightly different stats. Also, a lot of the point costs are pre-calculated.

I do second the suggestion of Blitzkrieg Commander lite, as it is a good free preview. The link is:
link

I was not aware that a new FOW basic book and army lists were coming out. the upside is, when that happens, you might be able to pick up a copy of the original rules cheap…

Another option when using 1/285th with rules intended for 15/25mm is to convert inches to centimeters. Tremendously increases area of play, and could allow for larger battles and flanking/sweeping actions.

Our group has played a few games with 6mm figures. Works great, especially when playing the Russians wen you need 3 times the models on the table.

We tweaked the ranges and movement a bit, using 1" = 2cm but it's probably not worth the effort … just use the rules straight out of the rulebook.

It works fine and looks good. A few pics here of a ~5,000 pt a side game.

link

ODGW has placed available their free Mein Panzer Junior rules online and also the basic game of Mein Panzer on their website, also for free.

I can't think of a better introduction for a junior grognard.

link

I use Micro armour to play FOW. I think the rules are better for 1/285 than for 15mm. You don't get the tank "parking lots" that you get at the larger scale. Also, Micro Armour, even GHQ is a lot cheaper than 15mms. And GHQ Micro-Armour looks better too.

If you're interested, buy the core book, and then buy enough Micro-Armour to play a small battle. If you like it add more.

Thanks for all the fast replies guys.. Wonderful information all around. I'm thinking about picking up a couple of the GHQ battleforces at 35.00 a pop to give me a decent beginner army. ARe the Flames of War armies really tightly tighed down to thier Org Chart?

I would say yes, but a GHQ box set may work fine. As it is 1:1, a typical 1500 point force would be say a German motorized Panzer grenadier company with 2 grenadier platoons, a schwere platoon with HMG's and mortars, and a Panzer platoon of 3 – 5 tanks.

Nothing to say that you cann't ignore the points system and just play using scenarios and real TOE's. I do not think it would break the system, especially if you are not playing in a turnament setting.

I'm working on two forces, German and Russian. Most of my figures and vehicles are made by GHQ, but some stuff comes from CinC.

By the way, if you're looking for some inspiration to do WWII in micro-scale, check out this web site. Ian H. does some wonderful things with GHQ vehicles and figures. His preferred set of rules is "Crossfire", but many of his ideas are useable for other rules sets.

iandrea.co.uk/wargames

I am working on 6mm for IABSM and would like to recommend Adler Miniatures for your infantry since they are cheap and absolutely wonderful with lots of poses and detail. Also, since money is a factor, look at CinC, Herocis&Ros and some others for your armour. I have gone with H&R armour. Up close a H&R Tiger looks like a blob compared to a GHQ Tiger. On the table they both look like Tigers, but you get a full platoon of H&R for one GHQ tank.

If you have some experience in WW2, or are prepared to study a bit, then I Aint Been Shot,Mum ( toofatlardies.co.uk ) is a prefect ruleset for Lads n Dads-gaming. The good, or bad, is that the rules are more like guidelines to help you judge what happens on the board than exact rules for everything that can happen. Done right, I think it can be the prefect game for playing you against your son, the two of you togther against the system, or junior and a friend with you as Umpire.

Since the rules can be had in PDF form for the price of a burger and fries,what have you got to lose, give it a try!

Buckaroo— A bit of clarification— many of the army boxes that BF puts out are only about $150-$200. They contain fairly balanced and complete 1,500 point armies. I think they are pretty good deals for what you get, and obviously are about half of what you THOUGHT you had to pay for an army.

6mm works great for FOW. If I had to do it all over again I would have done all my FOW armies in 6mm just to save money (although Battlefront makes excellent 15mm figs).

Just buy the main rulebook to get started, don't worry about the other books until they come out with the exact one you want, everything you need is in the main rules.

Thanks guys, I will look into those other miniature lines. Nazrat- Thanks for the clarification. I should have been a little clearer on my cost worry. I'm looking at a USA and German force but the only USA force I found on the Battlefront site was 290. The Germans were cheaper. But to supliment that with a couple of boxes of tanks the cost sky rockets. 45 for 5 shermans isn't cheap but the quality looks great. GHW will get me 5 Shermans for 9 bucks at GHQ ain't bad.

You can't argue with those prices, nor was I trying to! I just wanted to state that it was at least a little less than you thought.

Thomas,

Interested in your idea of playing IABSM in 6mm – but how do you go about basing up the troops, and the big men, and how do you represent casualties?

Thanks,

Frank

Frank, I am working on that. The troops, Adlers, are based 5 to a GW small round slottabase, representing half a squad. Each base will be marked with platoon and section so that every unit can be identified on the unit roster. As a unit takes casualties they will be crossed off on the roster, when half the squad is gone, one stand will be removed. As for keeping track of wounds, I am thinking of pasting the roster on a piece of foamboard and using pins to mark wounds, since each squad has one checkbox per trooper it should be easy to count down casualties by checking the boxes and use the same set of boxes to count up wounds with a pin that can be moved up and down as wounds are accumulated or removed.

To mark casualties on the board, well I'm working on that. Maybe a small coin with a dead/wounded figure put next to the troop stand?

Big Men will be based single or with an AdC/BatMan as appropriate on a smaller coin or washer.