"Micro-scifi: why no bulk packs?" Topic

This is somewhat of a mini-rant, but I was wondering if others felt the same way, or knew of any other options (or were drinking buddies of manufacturers).

I've thought for a while now about starting a big-battle project using "6mm" scale walkers (15-20mm tall) as Battletech type mechs, and using 2mm tanks and such for crunchies. I recently bought all of the GZG walkers, and while they are very nicely done figures, I did think "Huh, 6 of these for 2.50 … they are small enough to at least be in packs of 8 like the regular 15mm infantry." I then browsed over to the new 2mm section, and found that 6 of those tanks also go for 2.50 … hmmm …

Okay, I know that the main part of the price is not the metal, but the casting and packing time etc. Still, something in me says "Well, these 6 mechs come up to those 6 power armor's shoulders, and these 6 tanks come up to the mechs' knees." Since micro-scales like the 6mm walkers and the 2mm figures are meant to be used in mass, why not reduce packaging costs and sell them in bulk?

Maybe this is a sci-fi versus historicals approach to using micro-scales? Would players not buy them in bulk (say two dozen)?

Well, I got that off my chest. Don't even ask me how DP9 came up with their prices ($2 per 15mm tall mech versus GZG's $0.75). But, I'll get some anyway … which is probably the answer to my own question – they package them this way because people will buy them! ;)

Cheers,

Christopher

PS – all the figures mentioned above are very nice – no criticism of that sort intended!

Its also nice to be able to buy some sort of "platoon pack" instead of haveing to mix and match, especially when starting. A good comparison are the perry 10mm starter packs for almost any period – their Franco Prussian packs let you set up a couple of regiments of line, a gun some skirmishers and a brigadier for about $20 USD

Why not a pack with some walkers, tanks and infantry with support weapons — a nice starter pack to see if you like them.

Brigade Models has unit packs for their 6mm stuff that are pretty good deals and have some neat organizations

I can tell you how DP9 came up with their prices, because I was there. They added together the cost of the metal, the cost of the clamshell packaging, the cost of the card, the time of the sculptor, caster, packager and admin personel, then figured out how much profit they needed to add to make the whole thing worthwhile (instead of just going to flip burgers instead). You still get it cheap at $2, trust me. If GZG is willing to work for less, or they get their material cheaper, well, good for them! :)

Also, GZG probably just snds them in the ziplock plastic baggies, so no clamshell, card, or graphic design fees for packaging.

If you're talking about GZG's infantry walkers in the dirtside 6mm range, they're much, much smaller than DP9's gears – about the size of the leg on a Gear if I remember correctly. They should model something of similiar size, but GZG is 6mm and DP9 1/144 (which is probably 12mm, but I'm sure you can make an arguement for another size).

Of course, when you buy from GZG you get the mini and nothing else – no packaging, no colour card, etc. And no Quebecois payroll taxes either : )

Re: the packaging, I think I speak for the majority when I say that I would rather have GZG's plastic baggies for free than pay for useless packaging. The packaging is an advantage for the *seller* – not the purchaser, in that it is designed to be accessible to store shelves and give the product an element of visual advertising. If the packaging model is designed to take advantage of bulk sales to stores, then the scale of sales should offset the cost of the packaging, or else the marketing model needs to be re-examined.

I am talking about GZG's "6mm" scale infantry walkers, which are 15mm tall. The DP9 mini's I'm referring to (and don't have in my hand) are their "fleet scale" (NOT the regular 1/144 scale) and are described on their web site as 15mm tall, i.e.the 10 x Hunter pack for $19.95. Then there's the 3 x Naga (19mm) for $11.95 USD and the 3 x Mammoth (17mm) for $14.95. What that says to me (on the internet) is that they are selling 15mm figures for $2, $4 USD and $5 USD per figure! If there is something I'm not getting from the web site, then it should be added right away, because I can't think of a single 15mm line that charges anything near that; indeed, most 25mm lines are less expensive, and the standard 30-50mm tall "real mechs" from Ironwind are only a bit more expensive. Consider that I would have to spend $72 USD to just order one pack of each type.

At any rate, I didn't intend this to be an "attack" on any company, and DP9's minis certainly look great on the web. Maybe sci-fi gamers are just more accustomed to this way of packaging and pricing, but it strikes me that having the packaging match the actual use of the figures is a big selling point, and has been used to advantage by other companies in all scales.

Cheers,

Christopher

DP9 have also for a long time held publicly the view that gaming products are too cheap for their entertainment value.

Their logic went something like this: If you're willing to pay $10 USD for a 2-hour movie, and a RPG module provides say 40 hours of enjoyment, the module should logically cost $200. USD

Aside from that, I can offer a few things:

- SF and Fantasy models always cost more than equivalent historicals

- SF and Fantasy models are usually bought in lesser quantities (compare e.g. how many models it takes to man a 2000-point WFB army vs. WAB army)

- SF and Fantasy buyers often want to have the exact models they've selected, while historical buyers are more comfortable with buying a big bag of random variants.

- The 2mm SF tank line is not really done to provide a cheap way to field zillions of tanks. It's done because the s are cute, and I venture to guess most people buy them for that reason alone.

DP9s pricing kept me out of Gear Kreig. I had hoped to tie it in with my 15mm WW-II but at $15 USD per gear (when historical tanks are $6 USD each) kept me from getting the 10-20 models needed to play the game.

It's good to know I'm not alone! That's more or less my own line of thinking as well: at Price "X" I usually buy in large amounts, at Price "Y" I just pass – sometimes it's not a logical decision, but something just clicks.

Cute? I slave away creating an exciting line of 2mm kick ass sci-fi hardware and you say cute!

Jeremey
germy.co.uk

Hey Jeremey, Cute sells!!! I think they are great!! When is GZG going to have the other stuff up??

Ken

Very soon I hope, they have had a very busy start to the year. Which is good so I can't complain.
I sent the CyberTank off to them this very morning in fact.

Jeremey
germy.co.uk

Yeah. Germy's tanks look sort of like Advanced Wars meets Ogre Minis come to life only really small. And you can paint them in happy gumball colors…

Good stuff. I'd like to be able to buy them by the bucket with a discount but business is rarely if ever based entirely on what I want so I hold no grudges.

It is a neat little line though.

Germy's 6mm Cimexian armor line at Brigade is pretty nifty too.

Just in terms of what would be nice to see…

I have often wondered why many 6mm lines are not sold in bags of 100s (for infantry) or 20-50 (for vehicles)…

After all, I usually use 6mm stuff to make whole battalions or larger forces…

When I used to play Task Force, we had whole divisions of miniatures.

Amen! Preach it brother … Judas … oh, well. ;)

How many mechs can you buy for thirty pieces of silver?

Gotta admit that I'm agreed here; while Germy's stuff is very nice indeed, from a *gaming* point of view, I've been put off by the fact that I can get 6mm modern vehicles for the same price.

If it was available in bulk packs at a healthy discount I could see myself splashing a healthy amount on toys for use with Jim Webster's excellent "Hell On The Margin" rules, for which they'd be perfect. As it is, though, the project would cost a lot more in 2mm than in 6mm…. :-(

Dom.

The Dancing Banana Speaketh and Frowneth (and summed up what I was trying to get across nicely).

Hi Mark Vezina,

*** Have you folks at DP9 thought about selling your product without the packaging at a discount? ***

I know of several companies that do that. It's not a bad idea.

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

My BIG (VERY BIG IN FACT) wish is to see Germy's 2mm stuff done in bulk packs so that I can use them as tactical markers on the Player's Command and Control maps in Striker.

One of the BEST tools that I have found for using limited intel in Sci-Fi games is to give each player a small version of the game table (done complete with miniature miniature terrain… That is miniatures of the miniature terrain used on the large game table). Then, the players could use the smaller 2mm models to record where their on table troops are (until they are placed on the table)…

Then, when I got around to doing Operational level games.. They would be GREAT for that as well (But only if I can get them in bulk… Do you have any idea of how many infantry squads are in a Division?)

Assuming a straight-forward triangular organisation….

3 squads to the platoon.
9 squads to the company.
27 squads to the battalion.
81 squads to the regiment / brigade.
243 squads to the division.

Plus command, support, heavy weapons etc….

Dom :-p