"Over There! ready for playtesting" Topic

Hi, I've pretty much finished the "lite" version of my skirmish rules and need a good amount of comments, criticisms and playtesting before I move on with development. I packed the rules into a nice little 14 page PDF including sample army lists to get you started, so if you have any interest in trying them out, please post your email here and I'll send it out to you!

I made the system to cover many of the things other skirmish games miss, while keeping simple, intuitive and a lot of fun. Here are a few things that you might not find in other games:

• Command, Control, communication not assured, can be disrupted. Leaders lead.
• Fog of War, Friendly Fire and Fratricide
• Unpredictable turn order and phases, alternating actions for both players.
• Individual ammo use, limited ammo for major weapons
• In-depth morale system more complicated than "run away or stay". Psychological Warfare.
• Different uses for different grenades, smoke grenades etc.
• Electronic Warfare, reconnaissance/combat drones, communication jamming.
• Environmental conditions.
• Less hand to hand oriented than many Sci Fi systems, although melee still plays a role.
• Precision-guided munition, air support and offboard artillery
• Sensors (thermals, something more than "better sight = better accuracy")
• Soldiers "hit the dirt" when fired upon rather than "charge across open ground"
• Retaining squad actions (for overwatch, joint tactical maneuvers etc)
• Option to customize and build from scratch
• More gizmos, scenarios, weapon differentiation, backgrounds, actual ranges
• Artillery spotting, suppression, scouting
• Fatigue

I should mention that, while all of these rules are absolutely written out and developed, they are NOT all included in the lite rules. You'd be surprised how long it takes to convert piles of notes to a neat, understandable and precise PDF document. If you additionally want any of the above mentioned rules that are not in the lite rules PDF, just ask and I'll give.

In summary, my rules focus around realism (jogging and running speeds are accurate, distance is a 1:1 relation to the size of model, weapon rate of fire/accuracy/distance all model reality very well) in order to get at real tactics. At the same time, the system is meant to be very fluid (there are no charts or tables) and accessible (uses 1d6, rules are very intuitive upon learning the basic concepts). If you have any questions, please do ask.

Oh, and I'm trying to keep distribution limited right now, so please only post if you are truly interested, thanks!

I'd like to give these a go. jsalmon at btconnect dot com

I would like tro try as well please. rjharter at gmail dot com

Send em over!

somanyskulz(at)hotmail(dot)com

oh yesss please mate, glen.brooks@btinternet.com
thanks glen

Yes please, I need an excuse to get some of the Black Scorpion models.

mocaiv at unioncommand dot com

Oh yes please – My TAG Afghans need a work-out!

daniel at hamsters dot freeserve dot co dot uk.

Thanks

I'd love a look see.

fiteam at aol dot com

Cheers,
Soapy.

Add me then please :-)

noserider at btinternet dot com

I certainly want to take a look! mike40k@shaw.ca

JT

Please add Jeff at jschnak950@yahoo.com

I would be very interisted – gunboatdave@yahoo.com

General Monty, TAG Africans is what I use for much of my Over There! playtesting too : )

I wanted to give everyone a little more background info about the game. It is skirmish scale, and is meant for anything from 1 on 1 "duels", to fireteams, to full squads and even reinforced platoons. It could very likely be used for company-scale engagements, although I haven't personally done this yet.

Soldiers have three main stats on the field, which include Skill (representing experience and training), Morale (representing courage and calm) and Armour (which is always a "10" in historical settings, but could be higher in science-fiction games).

Combining Skill and Morale in a certain way (explained in the rules), you come up with a set of three numbers that are the soldiers Initiative (going from highest to lowest). The soldier starts with the highest initiative (giving the most "action dice") and goes down in initiative as he fails panic tests. Eventually a squad can be reduced to the lowest value, where they can barely act at all in a turn, due to spending the most of their time hiding).

Every action uses these action dice, which are refreshed every turn. You move the amount you roll, your attack accuracy is equal to the amount you roll, all representing spending that much time on that action in the turn (off topic; 1 die essentially equals 1 second of battle time).

Attack rolls are rolled against defense rolls, and the amount you succeed by modifies how much damage the attack does (there are different stages of wounds). With explosive attacks, how much you fail by affects the distance the attack scatters from the target (so don't fire off those RPGs from the hip, you could end up hitting your squadmate in the back!)

The game gets deadly, fast, and using cover is vital. At the same time using cover is vital, and "move and supress" tactics are truly the order of the day. Another nice thing is that there is a clear distinction between suppression and panic. If you shoot at the bravest Navy Seal, he will know to take cover regardless of whether his morale is broken (a difference many other games fail to grasp).

Sounds interesting! I'd be keen to take a look: could you send a copy to my TMP user name (without the space) at gmail dot com please? Thanks!

Send it my way as well.

badbobalbino at aol dot com

Please include me in the distribution.

artbraune at aol.com

please give me a copy and I ll try to send as much feed back as I can.
quester666 at yahoo dot com

AM, this level is not my preference, but given the interest you have here, you should create a yahoo group. You'd have a good place for archiving comments and suggestions, and a place to upload and download updated versions.

John Leahy has done this with his Company Commander rules and the participants in that group are quite enthussiastic about John and his team's efforts. Probably other folks have taken this route too.

For more publicity, you could make an announcement now and then on TMP about newest trial version, etc.

Good luck!

atlas7de@earthlink.net

Hi
Thanks for sending them – look interesting – an initial thought is that the use of coloured boxes makes it hard to read and impossible to print out for playtesting etc (well unless you can do it at work etc)

Rich J

Yes Please

geoff@coe3891.freeserve.co.uk

Hi, thanks for the advice Tim, I'm definitely going to move up to that level when I have all the expanded rules in one document and after I get a few initial comments on the lite rules.

Rich, another person emailed me about that. I have a laptop so I didn't even realise people would be printing it out (that, and I know the rules by heart). I certainly see the problem, and I'll be sending you a copy of black & white rules. If anyone else would like these, just email me and I'll get them to you asap.

Thanks to everyone that has signed in so far!

Yes Please, send 'em over

gharvey5 'at' bigpond.net.au

Love to help out,
Genji42002 at Yahoo dot com

Add me to the growing list as well

Tim

kappa1az@aol.com

Please send me a copy! darryl at theheliograph dot com

I would love a copy!

Demo48Jp@hotmail.com

Many thanks!

Jp

hi thanks i would like a copy too but i will get bill the editor to forward my email address to you as i dont want any more spam in my emails due to posting my address on an open forum .

thomas

Yes please,put me down for one
nickparsons8891@yahoo.co.uk

many thanks

Nick FoW

I'd be willing to give them a try, as a committed rules junky. GaryTGrimesATaol.com Note please replace the AT with @ as I want to avoid spam.

i will get bill the editor to forward my email address to you…

Sorry – AM doesn't have an email address on file.

Glenn, my email to you bounced, do you have some other address that would work?

Yes Please!!

Benc101@hotmail.co.uk

Many thanks

Please add me to you list jim_keats@yahoo.com.

Thanks!

- Jim

Just a note. Rules have already been published using the title "Over There." It's a set of company level WWI published a number of years ago. For more info go to link

Thanks for the heads up, Yankosky! I have to admit, OT is only tentatively named Over There. If I decide to stick with it, I'll go ahead and use a subtitle so everything is legal. As far as I know though, the old Over There is long out of print and the company (I believe) is no longer in business. I got some emails out to you scotch brigade and Sir James.

So who has gotten a chance to look through the document yet or playtest yet? If anything at all is confusing, I am more than happy to clarify.

Please add me to the list:
Big_Hagar at yahoo dot com

If you are still sending, I'd like to have a look as well. hacksaw102 (at) hotmail (dot) com. B&W would be great if possible. Thanks!

I would like a copy, Thanks.

David.Knowles@nu-heat.co.uk

I would like a copy

elvenknight@gmail.com

Me too:

ogm@zoom.co.uk

Hi, emails sent out! I have an expanded version of the "Rout" rules I'm working on. So far it looks like this:

Routed Teams
When a routed team is activated, make an immediate Morale Test. If the test is passed, then the unit must choose to Rally if it meets the appropriate requirements (if it does not, then it will automatically "Fall Back!" as described below). If the test is failed, the routed unit will act in one of the following ways, according to the situation:

Surrender!: If the closest non-routed team is an enemy and that enemy team is in line of sight, the routed team surrenders and is removed as casualty.

Fall Back!: If the closest non-routed team is friendly, then the routed team will use all of its Initiative dice to move directly towards the nearest terrain that provides cover, such that the movement does not bring the team any closer to visible non-routed enemy units (if these conditions cannot both be met, then the unit stays in place and spends all of its Initiative dice on Taking Cover).

What do you think?

I too would like try your new skirmish rules dbstud@aol.com

distance is a 1:1 relation to the size of model, weapon rate of fire/accuracy/distance all model reality very well) in order to get at real tactics.

I've always wondered how skirmish rules handle tank turning, Do they move them forward and turn in a wide arc or do they move them forward and turn in a series of small pivots as if dragging one track? I haven't looked at the exact distances WW2 tanks have to move to turn but at that scale it isn't zero.

Now some German tanks could turn in place but it wasn't recommended and could only be done safely on sand or slippery hard surfaces.

Me too at: mark @ twins4ever dot dk

That's a good question Mobius. All my information on that comes from a few videos and playing WW2 Online, but I was under the assumption that tanks could turn more or less on a dime (with the use of a steering brake or something similar), at least for my scale. Every inch is 2 meters in my game, so would it be worthwhile to make the vehicle move forward at all before turning?

Tanks are in the game, but not in the lite rules, and as of now they turn simply by spending actions to turn up to 45 degrees. If anyone would like to weigh in on this issue, please do.

Following are opinions (very abridged) of members of the 66th and 67th Armored Regiments and 2nd Armored Division:

the German Mark V tank,…
It has to our mind greater maneuverability, being able to turn in the space it's sitting in, while our mediums require half a field.

-Rains M. Robbins, Sergeant, Tank Commander

Is it too late to get a copy? templar72 at hotmail dot com.

Ed G.

And can I still get that rules?. Please crusher1002000@yahoo.com.
thanks in advance.

@templar and crash, Sure thing, I'll send them out today.

Big Hagar made a request for some modern units, so here are a few things to orient you in playing Over There! in contemporary conflicts:

US Forces: US Marines represent some of the best trained units on the field today. They are Rated Skill 3 or 4, Morale 3 or 4 and have Armour 13 (body armour). Delta Forces can be represented with Skill 4 or 5 and Morale 4 or 5 and also have body armour (Armour 13).

Iraqi Forces: The Iraqi volunteer army is not as well trained or disciplined as the US Army, and can thus be represented as Skill 2 or 3 and Morale 2 or 3 (tending towards the lower values). It is possible that some Iraqi Forces have access to American equipment, such as body armour and American small arms. Other Iraqi volunteers must make do with older equipment, similar to that of the insurgents.

Untrained civilian soldiers (be it Iraqi insurgents or Mogadishu militia) will tend to Skill and Morale 2 or even 1, in some cases.

The (entirely optional) cost of soldiers is their Skill multiplied by their Morale, plus any equipment. Thus, the average Skill 3/Morale 3 soldier would have a base cost of 9 points. Body Armour is an additional +1 point.

Here are some weapon stats:

Generic Weapons
Semi-Auto Pistol – R15", Dx2, M6+, Special (Automatic, Close Combat), Cost: 1 pt
Bolt-Action Rifle – R100", Dx4, M6+, Special (Bolt-Action, Accurate), Cost: 2 pts
Semi-Auto Rifle – R100", Dx4, M6+, Special (Automatic), Cost: 3 pts

OppFor Weapons
AK47 – R40", Dx3, M7+, Special (Auto 3), Cost: 5 pts
AK74 – R50", Dx3, M7+, Special (Auto 3), Cost: 6 pts
RPK74 SAW – R50", Dx3, M10+, Special (Auto 3), Cost: 9 pts
RPG-2 – R10", Dx12(x4), M1+, Special (HEAT, Blast 2), Cost: 10 pts

Allied Forces
M16A2 – R50", Dx3, M7+, Special (Auto 2), Cost: 4 pts
M4 – R40", Dx3, M7+, Special (Auto 3), Cost: 5 pts
M60E3 SAW, R100", Dx4, M10+, Special (Auto 3), Cost: 13 pts
AT4 – R20", Dx11(x4), M1+, Special (One Use, HEAT, Blast 2), Cost: 9 pts

Weapon Modifications
M203 40mm – R40", Dx3, M1+, Special (Blast 3, Min 2d6+6" Range), Cost: +1 pt
GP25 40mm – R40", Dx3, M1+, Special (Blast 3), Cost: +1 pt
Scope (for Semi-Auto Rifle or Bolt-Action Rifle), Cost: +2 pts

Despite a great amount of work put into them, the modern hand grenade has not changed significantly since WW2. You can use the Mk. II "Pineapple" rules for the modern M67 Frag Grenade. OppFor can use the same rules, although they would likely not have access to grenades anyway. Grenades are 1 point for each model with them.

SPECIAL RULES
A sniper scope allows the maximum possible Range of a weapon to go beyond 50" (recall the rule at the top of Page 8, that limits it to 50" due to visibility). This means a sniper has both better accuracy at range, and has more options when selecting a target (recall the targeting restrictions rule on page 7).

HEAT weapons do damage to vehicles as if they had already met the first Damage level (a glancing hit). Therefore, any damage done by a HEAT weapon will be added on to this affect (and the first multiple of armour the damage exceeds will be automatically considered the second level of damage – a fragmentation, and so on).

The M203 and GP25 grenade launchers can be added to the M16A2/M14 and the AK-74 respectively. The M203 only activates after passing a short "safety" distance. Roll 2d6 and add 6 whenever firing the weapon. If the result equals or exceeds the inches the target is distant, then the shot is entirely discounted.

Ok, let me know what you think,
-AM