"Warzone/Chronopia Licensing Changes?" Topic

Finally, I will use UWZ best bits and keep buying the minis I like, even if NO ONE ELSE in Mexico City (or more likely all of Mexico) does… Even if the game is "dead".

Why, I may even buy more Chronopia Dwarves to complemnet the ones Scurvy sent me as agift. I just loved them, so I will buy them when I have extra cash in a month or so.

Licenses and their holders do not make me play games. Rules and minis do.

I have no clue what your basic problem is with me but this has nothing to do with being a "fanboy and cheerleader" as you put it. I never said anyone else is a fool although you seem intent on proving yourself to be.

All I said is that there are two sides to the story and no one knows the truth except the people involved. You choose to believe Mike and that's fine.I choose to give Thom the benefit of the doubt. I also said that I believe in the principle of "Innocent til Proven Guilty".

My final point is that Excelsior losing the license no more means that you have to stop playing the game. I never said you had to play Excelsior's version. John L is still playing the Target version so why aren't you busting his chops for being a Target fanboy?

The answer is you have a problem with me or Thom or both. So instead of advising me to stop cheerleading how about you stop jeerleading. Until you everyone was being civil in this thread. Your hate will burn you up . I suggest you take your own advice and let it go.

Who hears considered Warzone/Chronopia alive? I thought it died with Target. EE was a manufacturer of stories. EE was a manufacturer of vapor.

I am glad to see EE go. They were truly amazing if not astonishing at their level of incompetence. I have never seen an enterprise that could be so utterly incompetent in everything across the board.

They couldn't produce print product except for the laughably bad Ultimate Warzone. But, it did take them what a century and half to come out with it? Amazing

They couldn't produce miniatures except a handful spread out over what five years…again amazing

They only consistent "news" item, which is advertising Bill puts up for free, was the incredibly common website down notifications. Were there more EE is down, behind, savaged by wolves announcements than product announcements?

They couldn't manage people in any manner. They allowed guys like Topkick (by his own admission) to run everyone off in a virtual forum. Yet they managed somehow even managed to get rid of the cartel members in such an efficient manner as to make Calle Cartels green with envy.

The idea that no one has a right to speak up because Thom did something is also absurd. Would you take your own child's appendix if you weren't a surgeon? Would you mortgage your house to open a garage without having ever been a mechanic? The answer is of course no. EE would have been an industry joke if it was so dishearteningly pathetic. In the end the only thing EE was effective at was making sure players were strung along watching Warzone/Chronopia die as a brand.

Thom won't get the benefit of the doubt or be "innocent until proven guilty." Why? Well, he has consistently demonstrated incompetence and less than truthful behavior. We can't forget his non-release release schedule, his taking of down payments years in advance of product. Incompetence is never a good defense; usually it is what gets you convicted whether in an actual court or the court of public opinion.

KnightTemplarr -

I had a long flame filled response typed but I am stepping away and letting it go. I've stated my opinions and that's all I can do. Your inability to allow me to post a differing opinion without spwewing hatred is kinda sad actually. Hope you feel better.

grrrr, grrrr, grrrr….. (pet peeve time)

The correct term is "innocent UNLESS proven guilty".

Using the term "innocent UNTIL proven guilty" means admitting guilt, even though it hasn't been proven yet.

(Something I actually learned from jury duty….)

Thanks for the correction Zephyr

Maybe you should step away because it seems this is too personal for you. And I don't mean anything glib by that.

You are all offended because I mention you, as an example of a problem. A problem you admit being a part of. That's all it was Topkick. I'm sorry if you think this was all aimed at you. You were an illustrative point for me about EE.

Yet, don't forget you insinuated others are not telling the truth about being paid or other business dealings.

Hate? That couldn't be further from the truth. I don't hate EE. I could care less. They weren't a viable company ever. I only posted because I didn't appreciate the attitude shown to Javier B aka DoktorZinieztro. I know he is all grown up and doesn't need help. He might disagree with everything I wrote.

I didn't stop you from posting your opinion. You posted many times, I posted once and now twice. You like EE that's great like'em. Whether they were great people or not I think EE was pathetic as a company.

Wow, I may agree with some of the sentiments expressed here. But, gee can't we say them a little more nicely? I am probably one of the longest and most vocal EE critics out there. Here at Minrealms and even the EE forum. Hal and I have been able to debate in a civil manner. Believe me, I had much less issue with him than some of the other folks past and present at the EE forum. Hal has been pretty consistant. He has a friendship with Thom and that alone should account for his stance. He also has a lot of blood and sweat involved with UWZ. For him to do less would be out of character. I'd appreciate a friend like that. May not be my view of things. And we all know it certainly</b? isn't. I still respect his stance.

And yeah, we have been playing 1st edition lately. been getting some figures lined up to do more. My son and a buddy are working on their armies. I've been buying figs like crazy!

Thanks,

John

Man, I need to pay attention to how I'm using the bold function.

Sorry,

John

My hate? You guys give yourselves too much credit, really. But hey, I'm used to you at EE and related circles to spin thing your way, so… Let's finally let it go.

It's not worth it if it deals with EE.

Well now, that we have some venom in this thread. I personally think everyone needs to chill.

So, how long till we hear who get's the lisence?

"So, how long till we hear who get's the lisence?"

Maybe never?? They would really have to do a complete overhaul of the game to make it work. Plus, after you do the complete overhaul-the license could get pulled, by Paradox…or whoever owns the games. The one good thing-it'd be an easy game to produce, because the system/game engine is all set.

"The one good thing-it'd be an easy game to produce, because the system/game engine is all set."

Not necessarily easy. An existing background or ruleset presents greater challenges such as appealing to a new audience while still courting the old. I doubt a company would pick up the license and just resell all the existing products. They have to show something new or people will just associate the company with its predecessors.

John -

Thanks for the kind words. I'd like to meet you sometime at a Con and talk face to face. You've proven that you're a stand up guy. We'll prolly never agree 100% on this or other issues but sometimes a friend is someone who speaks his mind and agrees to disagree. Take care and hope to talk to you soon.

Hal

"So, how long till we hear who get's the lisence?"

The GAMA Trade Show is in a few weeks. At this time of the year, all companies hold off on announcing things until then.

Mike Z

Hopefully it is a good solid company, I'd actually prefer one with a base to build fom already. Just so long as it isn't GW, or PP, or Rackham. Don't get me wrong, the last two produce some kick arse figures, but not at all of the proper style.

I suppose I'll give a bit of support to whoever gets it, at least at first, then decide whether or not to play anymore. I still have the last issue of Visions here that never got released, along with a bunch of other unreleased, yet almost finished projects that I could release for them.

No company with the capitol needed to revamp the brands would dare touch these. Why risk it on reinventing something that is currently being dumped for the second time in 5 years and at the end of the day, still wouldn't belong to you? I think the best that can be hoped for is a bunch of enthusiastic fans with more money than sense stringing it along for a couple more years like EE did.

OK!!
I for one love Warzone in any version! What makes Warzone so cool is it's back story. I started when it first came out and am still into to it!
As for Glodwyrm group of players I was one I played the Imperial and got my butt handed to me, loved every death my men felt.
IMO the problem it not so much the people creating the games it's the players, and in saying that its the mind set that newer is better. Take a look at 40k is it better cause of the rule or the minis? Well the rules suck so it must be the minis. The one thing missing from warzone was the new minis. If they would just tweak this rule or that rule, and come out with the new minis things would have been better for them.
To my point the players must stop this thinking that the new rules or version is the only way to go! That is what kills the game, also the game makers need to change there tacticts and up date and add not rewrite.

Now the EE XB9 issue. It takes 2 too tangeo!! Now take a look at who is the bigger man on the field. Hi Aaron!

I kinda liked the look of some Chronopia stuff, so I DO hope the lisence gets renewed, preferrably on a long contract.

Hi there Wes! We should get together and play a game of 2md Ed. Warzone this spring with Markus and the other guys, straight up infantry and I won't bring any Bauhaus artillery
Mike

Did you guys ever come up with a fix for Close Combat in 2nd?

Thanks,

John

John,
Here's a brief synopsis.

Some folks felt CC was ineffective so we tried a few house rules. One consensus rule that seemed to work for us was:

"Models charged only get ONE response at an attacker and no further responses if already engaged. Exception is a model with "Extra CC" or with 2 one handed weapons gets a second response to a melee attack. This rule makes CC geared
models awesome on the attack and much tougher than non-CC geared troops on the
defensive."

We then got bogged down discussing related things like enhanced charge, increasing movement for CC models, and point costs. There were some philosophical differences on how the game should play, but always friendly. I don't think we had time to play enough games. So opinions would change after each game on what rules to alter, rather than play a number of games to see a larger trend.

I also wanted to use a TO&E for Warzone forces instead of points but we never got past the planning stages- too much work. Then we thought we could use the ShockForce WarEngine for the Warzone universe but we found that we had to sacrifice too much detail and have time to convert over and agree on stats for ALL the forces. With the distraction of other games to play we really haven't come back around to deciding where we want to go as a group with Warzone. Prior to UWZ, I had begun some work on my own world books for Imperial, Cybertronic and Mishima using the Venus and Mars books as a guide. That took a backseat until we could figure out what UWZ was about and whether we would use it as a group. As mentioned in an earlier post, my $50 USD was spent on another Grizzly tank I'll never get to field .

I'd still be happy to play 2nd Edition as is.

You know that Underling (Kevin) did a load of Void conversions for Warzone. May have to go back and look at those.

Thanks,

John

I forgot to ask that how did Close Combat themed forces fare in your experiences with WZ 2nd? I would jump to 2nd but have heard that those type forces tend to get slaughtered. Yeah, I like the Wolfbanes.

Thanks,

John

Oops keep forgetting things. Same to you Hal.

Take care,

John

I am so glad that I finished my Chronopia collection several months ago.

I have over 2,000 points of every army in the game. My Firstborn, Elf, Blackblood, and
Devout armies are beyond 4,000 points.

I would suggest anyone that is really interested in Chronopia to acquire the figures
as soon as you can.

My sense is, they will soon become very, very rare. They are already sparse on Ebay.

Chronopia; Truly fantasy gaming's best kept secret. A rare gem, perfect in it's implementation,
flawless in it's play. A game easy to learn, yet one I am still trying to master after years of play.
A game that is sadly…..cursed and destined to fade into the wind.

It will be true Chronopia fanatics, folks like me and other's on this board that will keep the game alive.

I will always have my Chronopia collection, and will always view it as the best fantasy wargame ever published.

Even years down the road, I will turn to Chronopia as my favorite game.

John, My experiences over the years have been that melee has always favored the Dark Apostles. Corporate close combat troops are only useful against other corporate troops in terrain with short or blocked LOS or with a gimmick to get them into combat quickly. Adding terrain as just cover, which is the typical quick game solution, does not help survivability much. If the enemy can see you they can still fire, fire, fire each time you have to move, move, move to get closer. Troops like Wolfbanes would fare much better in constricted building interior fighting or using the night battle rules as compared to rushing a trench or crossing a table top with random cover all the way across.

Hey John,
Goldwyrm has it. The limited charge reaction mod helped, but the big problem was still just getting CC troops into CC. The fact that the opposing RC troops can just go on "overwatch" and wait for the CC troops to sprint across the open ground between cover meant that pretty much always too few CC troops would make contact to make a difference.

We even tried playing a few games with the 4x4 table covered mostly in woods. We got a few more CC troops into CC, but stuff like machinepistols, pistols, and such carried by the RC troops evened things out pretty quickly. In other words, the grunt CC troops we were experimenting with did not have enough of a attack and damage differential when they got into CC to make a real impact. Plus they would almost always be left hanging out in the open after they made their few kills, and would get shot to pieces by the unengaged RC troops from the squad they attacked, or the other enemy squads.

And, like Goldwyrm, I'm still happy to play 2nd edition. You just won't see me field many CC troops is all. As you know, I tried starting to convert the lists over to the Shockforce engine, but I really don't have the enthusiasm for that right now. I'd much rather be painting, or playing, or making scenery, etc.

The one thing our discussions really brought home was how much work it is to do army list design, especially for a modern/scifi game.

Have a good day,
Markus

Thanks for the replies guys. Yep, I understand how difficult it can be. I guess that the old axiom of bringing a gun to a knife fight sort of applies with 2nd edition. More realistic, but not very satisfying for my banes. I may try out the Void conversion. I had hoped to use Aetherverse, but that folded shop. Too bad. I really liked those rules.

Thanks,

John

Oops, that should be a knife to a gun fight.

Thanks,

John

I for one am not a big fan of CC in Scifi games, so I don't mind 2nd WZ. My problem with 2nd WZ was the force books came out for only 2 armies, this changed the game completley. Godlwyrm and his damed BH army killed every this on the table.
My Imperial is just crap compared to the BH forces. But I really don't care as I love to play. And the walkers with a crap CC attack sucks tooo! There is a need for improvment with WZ, but they have to be made at the same time. So change 1 thing for all the armies, not change one army.
NoelVH

One more thing we should start a Yahoo group for this game.
There are some still out there the best one to just join is Warzone Archive. What do you guys thing of this.

One attempt to keep all versions alive or to combine the versions together.

NoelVH

"One more thing we should start a Yahoo group for this game."

Ah my friend.. you should post on the one you are already a member of..

link

I'm also on Warzone Archive:

link

Like our mostly local group not a whole lot of activity.

Much to my surprise, I was recently paid for the last batch of sculpts I did for Excelsior.

Prophet: excellent.

Others: if you want an in-print game, try converting to Defiance fromk MJ12: mj12games.com , there's a guy working on a warzone force on the MJ12 forums. Defiance is good. I'm an unpaid sockpuppet or something, so ignore me or be sucked to your doom in some sort of gamer hell.

Or try Ætherverse, though Triskele Games is currently not running actively, he is keeping the forums open for communication and still answering all communication and such. Nice guy too.

I plan on playing Upheaval (Offshoot of Ætherverse, campaign system, smaller games and only $8) with my converted Imperials/Bauhaus. Actually picked up a bunch of Eldar for use with it too.

Oh well. I am more worried 'bout Chronopia than Warzone, and Ætherverse does not feel well suited for Chronopia.

I thought that Aetherverse held great potential for using my Warzone figs with. However, lack of an excel or Army builder tool meant that I would have to do all the conversions by hand. Since I own every Warzone faction that looked like a pretty time consuming task. I'm glad to hear the forums are still up.

Thanks,

John