"Brunswick gun carriage color?" Topic

Can any of you kind experts tell me what color the Brunswickers painted their artillery carriages? I'm specifically thinking of the 1815 campaign, but any information about the Spanish theatre would be helpful, too. Ta!

From memory, a mid-blue. At least that's how I painted mine several years ago, and I must have done at least some research..

Giles

I painted by 1815 Brunswick gun carriages a light blue but reliable sources seem very difficult to come by. Also the type of guns seems to vary according to which reference material you read, some say British guns others say French guns.

Yep; we had this debate a while back, and came to the conclusion that the evidence was inconclusive…. The Funcken plate on Brunswick artillery has a light blue which I'm inclined to trust. With regard to the type, I'm pretty convinced that they were indeed French guns, not British. (The apparent origin being that they were bought at auction after Leipzig, having been in Westphalian service.)

Dom.

Ooh, got it…. The most useful website on the subject has been down for some time (a reenactment unit of teh Brunswick artillery) but I've persuaded Google's cache memory to spit it out:

link

Cheers,
Dom.

(Nb: Google's cache doesn't last forever, so I'd save it or print it if you find the page useful.)

Ooh!! Very impressive! The Dancing Banana hath Spotted It!

Many thanks again, everyone. My little guys are overjoyed.

My pleasure; it's always good to see more Brunswickers…. :-)

Dom.

Glad to see I don't have to repaint mine. I picked lt. blue knowing it was 1 of Brunswick's favorite colors.

Was not it light blue with the guns barrels painted black?

The Brunswickers didn't have any artillery in the Peninsular, sorry.

>"Was not it light blue with the guns barrels painted black?"<

I doubt if anybody painted the barrels, which were bronze and thus already rust-proof. Perhaps you mean or have read that the (other) metal parts were painted black? which was the standard practice in most armies (the other metal parts usually being iron). Only the wood parts would have been blue (in this case).

Thank you "donlowry". The crew (horse) is already painted. But I was not sure for the gun.
Could this light blue be depicted like the one of the water bottles?
Thanks for more help!

>"Could this light blue be depicted like the one of the water bottles?"<

Not sure what you mean. Are you asking if the blue should be the same shade as British canteens (water bottles)? If so, sounds about right.

Thank you "Donlowry". It was exactly what I was meaning…

Hi,
I think I got the answer from Geert Uythoven's website a few years back. After the peace in 1814, the Duke of Brunswick purchased 12 6pdrs from the Prussians on auction, prior to the campaign. What with the demobilisations, equipment was going cheap. Carriages were medium blue per the Prussian army, and metalwork in black.

try this, obviously not definative and with the usual caveats

link

rabbit

Dear Cathusac
In 1814, Brunswick purchased two Westphalian Batteries [12 French M1808 6-pdrs, 4x Westphalian 7-pdr howitzers, 32 Caissons, 2 field forges etc…
Dawson, Dawson and Summerfield (2007) Napoleonic Artillery, Crowood Press, p149

Subsequently, it has been discovered the plans of Hesse-Cassel who in the 1808-13 were the major part of Westphalia had a developed Artillery System that took elements from the AnXI system with the M1789 and M1802 Hesse Cassel Systems derived from Prussian M1768.

Colour of carriages is given DDS (2007) 226-231. Brunswick used olive green with black fittings.

Stephen

Ooh, got it…. The most useful website on the subject has been down for some time (a reenactment unit of teh Brunswick artillery) but I've persuaded Google's cache memory to spit it out:

link

Cheers,
Dom.

(Nb: Google's cache doesn't last forever, so I'd save it or print it if you find the page useful.)

Hi All – did anyone save the contents of this link that Dom posted – or is it available anywhere else?

Mycenius

Some of it is here:
link

Cliff

Thanks Cliff.

And French guns are the more entertaining choice to add variety to the Anglo-Allied army. When I first painted my Brunswickers long ago before knowing of the possibility of French ones, I had used British. But more recently replaced them. Still painted blue though.

DB units also used French ordinance – 6# guns. These were supposedly either painted blue-grey or the French olive color.

They didn't bother to repaint them?

Again, the more entertaining option is to paint them French olive. Especially for the Belgian units who were very reluctant partners in the Kingdom of the Netherlands and had been serving in the French army up til about a year prior.

Just to throw some doubt into the ring, later 19th Century paintings of Brunswick artillery and ancillary vehicles in the Landesmuseum, including the depiction of an incident from the battle of Waterloo showing foot gunners defending their gun against French cuirassiers (Captain Orges), show the guns as being painted mid- to dark-grey, as does the series of Beyer-Pegau paintings of Brunswick uniforms (again, later 19th Century). I have also found a modern article on the 1815 contingent which suggests that grey was used (sadly no author, but a link here:-

Now, these artworks could be simply reproducing whatever colour the Brunswick artillery was at the time they were created (all post-Napoleonic and some at least post-1850), and guns and limbers were certainly noted as being black during the Franco-Prussian War, but I think it might be worth considering that a darkish grey – certainly darker than the colour used for British guns and vehicles – is a distinct possibility.

Anthony L. Dawson, Paul L. Dawson & Stephen Summerfiueld's book "Napoleonic Artillery" on page 229 says:
1809 Ochre woodwork (Austrian) black metal fittings
1813-15 Olive woodwork & black metal fittings.

Well, yes – provided they refused to repaint the guns bought at auction in 1813. And bear in mind that, if not repainted, then the Westphalian items (more than half) would still have had yellow stripes on the wheels!

And I forgot the link for the information:
link
link

Nicely painted figures yes, but no links to historical supporting material to your comments.

Sorry, I seem to have become a wee bit lost in trying to manoeuvre between this chap's various posts; he does have some detailed info on all the 1815 contingent units, and I am pretty sure he did quote some sources, but damned if I can find any of them now!

I suspect the grey colour was down to the illustrations of artillerymen by A. Beyer-Pegau who was an acknowledged expert on the Brunswick army – so am now more open minded on this…

Three useful items:
Die Geschichte der Braunschweigischen Artillerie von ihrer Entstehung bis auf die heutige Zeit
H. Kühne
Mittler, 1875
link

"Die Abenteuer von Heinrich Dehnel und Carl Genderer im Corps des schwarzen Herzogs" covers 1809
Frank Brandes
link

"Mit den Geschuetzen des schwarzen Herzogs nach Brabant" covers 1814-1816
Frank Brandes
link

Neuaufstellung der Batterien 1814
Am 10.03.1814 und am 10.04.1814 kaufte Major Mahn in Dresden vom Kommandeur der Artillerie
Major von Suttanoff, aus dem Artilleriepark von den bei Leipzig erbeuteten Geschützen die
Haubitzen und Kanonen für die Braunschweiger Batterien . Auf der ersten Liste befanden sich
folgende Geschütze und Wagen:
 1 französische Haubitze,
 1 westfälische Haubitze,
 2 französische sechspfündige Kanonen,
 4 westfälische sechspfündige Kanonen.
 1 westfälischer Munitionswagen und 1 französischer Munitionswagen mit 4590 Schuss für
die Kanonen und 798 Schuss für die Haubitzen.
Auf der zweiten Liste vom April befand sich folgendes Material:
 2 französische Haubitzen, 1 französische Kanone,
 5 holländische Kanonen.
 Der Munitionsbestand für diese Liste belief sich auf: 5507 Schuss für die Kanonen und 581
Schuss für die Haubitzen.
Während Major Mahn die benötigte Ausrüstung für die Artillerie kaufte, forderte Olfermann die
Öffentlichkeit auf, freiwillige Beiträge zur Ausrüstung des Corps zu leisten. 6000 Taler schenkten die

Here's what I've written in the other thread with similar topic:

"Reitzenstein wrote in his history of the "Geschützwesen und die Artillerie in den Landen Braunschweig und Hannover", Part 3, published in 1900, that

- a collection of money to buy guns and howitzers had been started and until December 1813 about 6.000 Taler were at the disposition of the New Brunswick army
- Major Mahn was sent to Leipzig to buy French and Westphalian guns and howitzers (of course together with the limbers, etc.); this equipment was used to provide the gun/howitzer and park material for the future Brunswick batteries
- the grey (!) color was kept for the guns/howitzers and the limbers/wagons/etc."

Greetings from Berlin
Markus Stein