"GW specialist games update" Topic

Well, I got told last night all speacialist games are being stopped – there may be free rules downloads of the games as there exists already for most if not all of them. GW is now just going to concentrate on the 3 core games. Also, couldnt get specifics but something is going to be happening with Forgeworld over the next couple of years, and all I was told was if I am unhappy about the prices they charge, I will be a happier man. Now, either the guy knows I am going to win the lottery and be a millionare, or prices may become more realistic. The other comment regards FW was 'All I can say is FW has always beem a part of GW'.

Sorry I couldnt get anymore specifics, but I am probably not supposed to know this thus far anyway!

Alien

Now that GW is doing large plastic kits I don't see why Forgeworld should hold a monopoly on such items.

It's a shame about the Specialist Games. I think having a Skirmish game for the core systems is very important and would attract more new players. Maybe 7th WHFB will have a skirmish system built in like Mordheim so that players can start playing with only a small warband?

Not terribly surprising about the specialist games.

As long as they keep the rules as a free downloads, there will always be figures produced for those games, even if they aren't GW figures.

Now if this leads to GW's concentration on different aspects of the core games (like warbands or skirmish level rules modifications) then I am all for that. my main complaint about WHFB is that it takes so long to play and it can go badly early on, leaving you to play out farce for the next two hours. (this, I should note, doesn't happen frequently but the possibility is there.)

If they really developed integrated rules for smaller skirmishes that play quicker, that's great. I liked the Warbands rules they published this summer, and would like to see them developed further.

The funny thing is that the general consensus on a couple of other lists a while ago when it was announced that Specialist Games was coming back into the main studio is that it spelled the doom of Specialist Games.

Thanks for being so predictable, GW, and killing perfectly good games.

Fortunately, I have a group that likes to play Warmaster, so regardless of future support from GW, I'll be able to continue having fun.

Aliensuffer said:
"The other comment regards FW was 'All I can say is FW has always beem a part of GW'."

Sort of… I know FW has never given much cooperation with GW US. When I was at GWUS, they made a habit of always managing to be FULLY stocked to all of the Games Days with out fulfilling commitments to fill orders & promotions they promised to GW US.

I'm not sure if it had more to do with the UK/US politics (and there seemd to be quite a bit) or what, but FW was a source of much irritation for me when I when I work for GW US.

Sorry for the rant… FW just always gets my hackles up.
~WW

Will GW still be producing the random figures for the specialist games? Ie – will there still be NEcromunda and Mordheim characters popping up?

It's a real bummer since the Special Games are usually quite good. Warmaster is probably one of *the best* 10mm large scale games I have played. Mordheim and Necromunda are a gas. BFG is fun. Gorkka-Morkka and Inquisitor – not so much, but I adore the models. The core games are OK – not great, but they don't suck either.

I'm rather depressed now.

WHFB does have skirmish rules in the rulebook – or at least my edition does.

Justin – it was from a store manager who is also running the Conflict tournament next year, so I guess he gets all the news – but obviously couldn't tell me all.

Or so I believe, I won't name him in case I shouldn't have said anything here!

OI! Whats about my zoggin question!!!! ;)

Not wanting to salt anyones's game, but wouldn't you agree that a "store manager" is a pretty low level functionary within the Empire, and would not generally be expected to be in possession of sensitive strategic information at a corporate level?

w.

Don't know saint. Wehrmacht – the guy has been spot on with other stuff he's told me before than then gets a general news release – plus in GW they've already advertised a sell off of some of the specialist games range stuff. as for a mere store manager, I think things have changed somewhat in the GW set up as they have lots of meetings with the managers where they get to know most of what is happening. However, I'd put money on this one being pretty spot on regardless as it would make sense for GW. I think they are going to be making a bigger push into the US as well.

Out of curiosity, what games does GW consider to be "specialist games?"

Specialist Games:

Mordheim
Epic
Warmaster
Battlefleet Gothic
Battle of Five Armies
Inquisitor
Blood Bowl

Probably forgetting one.

Warmaster ancients too?

Say it ain't so!

Bob in Edmonton

I was given some hints about the new Tau stuff by a store manager well before the new codex rumours hit the net, so they do sometimes get the inside scoop.

Well if this is true I guess I'd better finish of my Warmaster armies before they become hard to get.

But is anybody really surprised then?

Sad to see the Inquisitor miniatures go :-(
Particularly since they were very reasonable priced for figures in this scale. Too bad gamers didn't pick them up.

I can't say I'll really miss the rules. They were good, but there are plenty of other good comparable rulesets out there. It's the non-28mm miniatures I'll miss.

Warmaster Ancients is not part of the Specialist Games line. I am not clear on the relationship between the Warhammer Historical people and the GW mothership. I do know WMA and WAB are a different breed than the Specialist Games.

I can find no mention anywhere of Specialist games being discontinued or stopped outright.

A while back, the specialist team was reduced and will be a slow but steady kinda thing and a lot of the sculpting and painting I think was going to be done by "GW in house" instead of their own team.

Considering that the specialist games are doing remarkably well with all the player support, it seems like a strech that it would be discontinued.

I rank this managers comment up there with the other store manager who says Horus sits on the Golden throne.

You may as well say GW is bringing back squats!!

We'll just have to wait for the next announcement on the specialist games site.

The recent streamlining of the specialist lines was supposed to clean out dead wood and make room for new additions (hopefully). However, there was also some mention about storage space at the mail order vaults.

However, from a bean counter perspective it wouldn't surprise me if they killed of the specialist games.The margin on the minis may be the same, but the time spent by a sculptor on one of the three core games has a much larger return than time spent on sculpting stuff for the specialist ranges.

The only reason the specialist ranges are still there (I think) is the continuing efforts within the company by Jervis and other enthousiasts.

"about storage space at the mail order vaults."

Well, if they have a close-out sale there are a few things I might pick up. Or not.

That is not exactly correct information. SG has been downsized and restructured due to a decision by GW bigwigs. So SG is no longer producing hard copy books, but development is still going on. All rules, articles, supplements, etc are going to be released as PDFs. Next Year the Chaos supplement is supposed to be released for Epic. Also I know all of the Warmaster armies are getting an update/review. New figures are scheduled to be released as well. The big down side of it is that SG is slowing down what they put out. They are planning to have one major release for each of the SG games per year. All of this is in the air as to exactly when it will happen. The announcement was made sometime earlier this year. It was on their website and has been discussed on the SG forum. Anyhow, SG is not defunct. It just is sadly limping along.

Killing off Epic half-done twice in a row? I'm a persistent buyer who is hard to drive away from a good line, but this may be enough to turn off my GW purchases for good.

Games are NOT the music biz. You (ie. GW) CAN'T manufacture hits at will in this hobby. That the entire games biz is currently looking for the "next big thing" and *no one* is finding it should be a good indicator of this. GW should know better that "good sellers" aren't the same as "consistent sellers", but they persist in ignoring or neglecting anything that isn't both.

Hopefully, this rumor is more like a bad game of "Telephone" than reality.

I have talked to my own friend who is a GW Retail store mangager and the word that he tells me on this is that the GW stores will no longer be able to stock Specialist Stuff. So, from a GW retail employee perspective they are going away. As far as how this goes down with company, I can not see them just discontinuing all of this stuff and flushing their investment down the toilet. I would venture a guess that the Specialist line will continue in some way, some how.

Is this about the US stores then? In Europe the specialist games have been mail-order-only for some time now.

Well, they did have that announcement about the huge selection of Specialist minis that are no longer available as of Dec. 10, although the announcement did say that they might be reintroduced "for limited engagements" in the future. I remember it included the Blood Bowl Ogres.

Is he a member of the Rebel alliance?

But forgeworld epic prices are lower than GW! :)
Personally I just wish they would spin them off like FW currently is and let them stand or sink alone.

Guess that is why I was able to pick up the Mordhiem box set for 30.00 usd last week.

Having just gotten a WarMaster Kislev army in by the Dec 10th deadline, I was told the following by GW-US:

"Everything in the New Specialist Games catalogue will absolutely positively be around, we are fighting Tooth and Nail to keep it."
(I personally would add "…at least for the next year", but I'm a cynic).

Anything _not_ in the Catalogue is already gone (the aforementioned WM Kislev army, several Mordheim bamds & etc).

This is the Word from a moderatley highly placed Mail_order_troll Supervisor: take it for what it is…

I have to presume the comment from the Manager that started this thread merely codifies what was already de-facto policy: Specialist Games will not be handled by GWUs storefronts anymore. Like Europe: SG's are now MailOrder only in the US.

Any opinion to the contrary (although it wouldn't be a suprise) does require a bit more evidence to convince me.

Is this yet more evidence of GW cutting their own throats over the Lotr fiasco? They've already lost me, and it looks like they will loose a few more yet.

What they should be doing, is bringing back the really good early games such as Space Hulk, Heroquest and others as moderately priced starter games etc.

I will keep a watch out for future developments.

Stormwolf

Oh, they trot out Space Hulk periodically to keep the trademark live. I expect we'll see another run at Talisman in a few years for the same reason. The other games they intend to keep are "still in production" as Specialist Games. The Specialist Games method is probably cheaper than the periodic "trademark maintenance release" for games with a larger miniature requirement, while the periodic re-release is better for the non-mini or no-extra-minis games like Talisman and Space Hulk.

A few of their releases over the years are gone completely, due largely to the designers of those games/factions/etc having left and taken their IP with them, or there being no fans of that genre of game left in the company. This is why Man o'War, the kids games (such as "Oi, that's me leg!"), and the card game Chaos Marauders (which was, amusingly, more about orcs than chaos), as well as a few other stand-alones from the 80's and 90's, will never return.

Hmmm…to horde all my SG stuff and assume it will go up in value once the division is killed off, or to dump it now while there are still players? Choices, choices…

Y'know, I found my copies of the kiddy "Troll Games" the other day. I can actually remember playing Squelch a few times…as a drinking game. :)

Rich

The fanboyz are throwing fits.

Mission accomplished…..

They already 'revisited' Space Hulk by putting up some terrain and modelling tips on their site. The idea being that you can play SH just by using the current rules with, I believe, a few tweaks. The terrain certainly looks nice.

>>Hmmm…to horde all my SG stuff and assume it will go up in value once the division is killed off, or to dump it now while there are still players? Choices, choices…<<

I seriously doubt the player base for these games will go away. that was the point of starting up SG in the first place, as GW finally recognized that these games were being played despite an absence of GW marketing. Prior to that GW tended to be in denial. I remember the reaction from GW Retailer Support some twelve years back when my local store owner asked for prize support for the very persistent store BloodBowl league: "They aren't supposed to be playing *that* anymore!"

But 2nd Edition Epic's fans are a pretty intense bunch of diehards, having set about maintaining that version of the game *themselves* as NetEpic. There is also a fairly lively fandom for Man o'War, despite it's being rather aggressively out of print. The other games adopted by SG all have stubborn player bases as well. Just enough folks within GW recognize that it is better to make *some* money from these groups than none at all, so these games survive in some form despite the rumor that started this thread.

Perhaps someone can explain something to me. If the games now carried by Specailest Games are popular, and judging by the response on this site they are, and even the game Space Hulk everyone says is a great game, which it is and I wish I could get my own copy.

The question is Why would the company not want to suppport popular games? Do the games not make any money for GW? Is it political within GW itself? I know, if I had a company the had games that generated as much buzz as the SG games, and I was making a profit on said games, I definitly would not be trying to sudue such games. They may not be a "cash cow", but in this industry, if a games generates profit, keep the system alive.

Then again, maybe I am just clueless about how the whole industry works.

Tom

I have to second Tom's questions. It seems as if GW doesn't have the manpower to keep releasing new items for the SG range, but I have a hard time beliving this to be the case. GW proper doesn't put out that much new product really. Where is all the manpower going?

'cos they _aren't_ that popular. Like Squats, they are loved by a small but vocal minority. As a share of GW's customer base they are barely significant.

Pat