"Belgic shako or stovepipe shako?" Topic

As I'm new Napoleonic player I'm looking for some information.
I'm planning in building, a small, british army, usable in the Peninsula. I really like the Front Rank British with the belgic shako (that's why I am starting this army in the first place).

A friend of me says that the belgic shako didn't appear before 1815 so my army should have the stovepipe shako.
Is this true? or could my 1812 army wear the belgic shako?

Another question about the headgear: My allies, the Portugese, wears a stovepipe shako or a barentina cap. Which came first and when was the transition?

BTW: we are both just starting in this period.

DJ

Sorry, posted this on the wrong board but crossposted it to the Napoleonic discussion board.

This thread should end here.

DJ

Belgic shako was introduced in 1812, so you can just scrape it…. (Light infantry and the 28th foot kept the Stovepipe, though.) No idea on the Portugese, I'm afraid, but I'm sure someone better informed will be along in a minute.

Dom.

I'm not sure just how long it would have taken for the Belgic shako to have replaced the stovepipe in service with 'front-line' troops, given the parlous nature of the supply chain at times in the Peninsular campaign. I expect it would have gradually 'taken over', rather than being a wholesale changeover on a specific date. The question then is, how long does 'gradually' take?

DJ:

My general advice is this: if you use the Belgic shako you are partially right for Waterloo in 1815 (many regiments there still had the "stovepipe").

Remember during this time untis were generally not issued new uniforms or gear en masse. Rather, they wore the existing items until they wore out, then "upgraded."

So I'd say for 1812 you should go all Stovepipe. If you'd like to toss in a unit it the Belgic shako just for fun, go ahead. After all this is a hobby, it's supposed to be fun. For that matter, if you really like them, do your whole army that way. As long as your friend won't complain…

For the Portuguese, the barretina came first. Most of the surviving ones were grabbed by the French to equip the Legion Portugais. Some remained for the loyal forces, but mostly they were equipped with British-supplied stovepipes.

Thanks for all the answers, it seems its stovepipe all the way (if historically correct). I will, at least, put one unit with the belgic shako in my army (I already ordered them).
For the portugese I was planning the barretina but I will go stovepipe for them.
My friend is building a french peninsular army, it seems he will be fighting some british equipped for Waterloo.
I think we will mostly play against each other, we are the only two in are gamingclub with this venture.
It is a small side project and we will be using the onofficial Warhammer Napoleon rules.
The important thing is that my army looks consistent. So maybe I will go Waterloo for my army afterall.

DJ

the barretina shako (with the false front) became the official Portuguese infantry headgear in 1806. It was replaced by various stovepipe shakos in 1810-1811.

The British "Belgic"(because it was worn in time for the Belgium campaign of 1815) shako was based on the Barretina; it was introduced gradually (undoubtedly when the old stovepipe shakos wore out, but the units changed over by the regiment, not by individuals.

By Waterloo, apparently the stovepie was still worn only by light infantry units (including rifle units) and the 28th Foot.

I agree with the opinion of the others that if you intend to use the troops for 1815-Belgium, 1813-14 Spain, the 1813-15 in America or a-historical poet-1815 campaigns then the 'Belgic' shako.

Many of the British Allies in Belgium also wore the Belgic shako. As did the pre-1812 Portuguese, who also wore it into 1830.

If you are working on strictly a Peninsular Army or one for India, then I would suggest the Stovepipe.

I too am interested in this topic as I am considering an allied army for the Waterloo campaign. I had intended to post a similar query on TMP.

Dan Beattie:
You say that by Waterloo, apparently the stovepie was still worn only by light infantry units (including rifle units) and the 28th Foot.

Does this mean that only the 95th and 52nd (plus the 28th Foot) wore the stovepipe. Can I do the rest of my British Line and Guard in Belgic shakos? I know nothing of the British army of the period and have just bought Haythornwaite's Uniforms of Waterloo but haven't read it yet.

Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Regards

Yes, the 95th and 52nd (and the 71st and the 51st who were at Waterloo as well, and the 60th Rifles) wear the light infantry version of the stovepipe shako at Waterloo and throughout the period. (Your figure-maker choice will see you get the "proper" hat for rifles and light infantry as these specialist units never wore a Belgic shako.)

And, yes, the only line unit at Waterloo wearing the line infantry stovepipe shako was the 28th, but they didn't wear the standard brass shako plate that Peninsular figures will come with. It had the top and bottom scrolls, and the crowned lion badge cut from the old plates along with a brass "28". There is a picture of it in the Haythornthwaite Uniforms of Waterloo in Color book; plate 13.

As well, the light infantry units of the King's German Legion also wore light infantry pattern stovepipe shakos, while the KGL line units wore the Belgic shako if you're interested in them too.

Also, although I'm not going to go looking through my books for confirmation, I believe that the KGL (and maybe the Guards' brigades) sometimes (often?) detached their line infantry battalions' light companies massed together for skirmishing, and I believe they did so at Waterloo too. (Specifically at Hougoumont and La Haye Sainte.) So if you really want a Belgic shako skirmishing unit or two, maybe you could do these elite troops massed together.

Don't forget that the 28th also had a shako plate on the *back* of their shako. This wasn't officially authorised until about 1830, but was actually worn from 1802, in commemoration of their fight at Alexandria in March 1801, when they wound up literally fighting back-to-back.

Dom.

Pictures of a nice model here: link

Right on, Dom, I had forgotten about that as I only looked at the Haythornthwaite plate and didn't read the written description.

Does anyone know if the central device and number were silver coloured as in Dom's model pic, or whether they were brass too (as they appear to be in the Haythornthwaite)? It looks like the model does have it in silvery paint and it's not a case of the camera flash making it look silvery, I'd opine.

Andygamer

Thank you for that information. I did not realise that the Belgic shako was so prominent at Waterloo.

Regards

You're welcome. Although look for a written source somewhere about the light companies of the Guards and the KGL being used combined (respectively and not together), and don't just take my vague memory of this as gospel.)

sane max has stolen my post! CALL THE COPS!

I did not post this and I am trying to find out what happened. Since we cannot edit a post this is a mystery?

In the post that was 'lost' I had mentioned that the Hanover and Belgium troops also wore the Belgic shako at Waterloo.

A lot of Stovepipe skakos were given to British sponsored Legions and of course to Prussian Reserve units.