
"Troops for Ukraine - the European Volunteer Detachment" Topic
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SBminisguy  | 22 Oct 2026 12:18 p.m. PST |
Thought Piece: A "Volunteer Detachment" Model for European Support to UkraineFor discussion and review. This is a conceptual exercise examining whether a Flying Tigers-style arrangement could close the gap between European rhetorical support and the practical limits on direct troop involvement.European leaders, including German Chancellor Friedrich Merz, have criticized U.S. moves toward energy deals or negotiated settlements with Russia as undermining Ukraine. At the same time, they have consistently ruled out the deployment of their own uniformed forces. The resulting tension invites a practical question: if governments are unwilling to commit active-duty troops, could they facilitate a more deniable form of support by transferring equipment and allowing trained personnel to resign and serve under Ukrainian command?This piece outlines one possible structure for such an arrangement—not as a policy recommendation, but as a thought experiment that surfaces the operational, legal, and political constraints. Historical PrecedentThe closest parallel is the American Volunteer Group (AVG), better known as the Flying Tigers. In 1941, before formal U.S. entry into the war, the Roosevelt administration authorized the recruitment of pilots and ground crew from the U.S. military services. Those individuals resigned their commissions or enlisted status, signed contracts with a Chinese-linked entity, and flew American-built aircraft under Chinese command. The arrangement provided combat experience and material support while preserving a degree of official deniability.Similar volunteer formations (Lafayette Escadrille, Eagle Squadrons) operated on the same principle of individual resignation followed by service under a foreign flag.The scale of the AVG was small—roughly 100 pilots plus support personnel. It was never intended as a large ground formation. Any modern analogue would face the same constraint. A more recent and larger-scale example is Russia's Wagner Group. Wagner recruited former regular-service personnel, received substantial equipment and logistics support from the Russian state, and operated under a contractor/volunteer framing that Moscow treated as deniable. The parallel is imperfect—Wagner was a structured private military company rather than individuals contracting directly into a host nation's armed forces—but it demonstrates that the "resigned specialists + state-supplied equipment" model can be scaled when a government chooses to facilitate it. It also shows the practical limits of deniability once the formation becomes large and uses recognizable national equipment.
Notional Organization and EquipmentA full organic mechanized brigade (typically 3,000–4,000 personnel with multiple tank and mechanized battalions plus organic artillery and logistics) exceeds realistic manpower and equipment availability. The more plausible ceiling is a reinforced mechanized battalion battle group of roughly 900–1,400 personnel, or several company-sized detachments attached to existing Ukrainian brigades.A representative table of organization and equipment could include:
- Battalion headquarters with Ukrainian command and foreign liaison staff.
- One tank company of 10–14 Leopard 2 or Leopard 1 tanks, crewed and maintained primarily by resigned European specialists.
- Two mechanized infantry companies equipped with Marder or equivalent infantry fighting vehicles, mixing foreign vehicle crews with Ukrainian dismounts.
- Limited air-defense or anti-drone elements (for example, Gepard crews if systems are available).
- Maintenance and recovery elements staffed by foreign technical specialists familiar with Western systems.
- Minimal organic reconnaissance, signals, and medical support, with reliance on the parent Ukrainian brigade for artillery, higher logistics, and bulk sustainment.
Equipment would first be sold or transferred to Ukraine as a government-to-government or authorized commercial transaction, then assigned to the detachment. Personnel would serve under Ukrainian command authority. Foreign specialists would concentrate on high-skill roles (tank gunnery, complex maintenance) while Ukrainian manpower fills infantry and support positions.Existing foreign volunteer units in Ukraine—International Legion battalions and smaller formations such as the German Volunteer Corps—operate at company or battalion scale as light infantry or special-purpose elements, not as independent heavy formations. The proposed structure stays within that observed range while focusing on systems that require specialized training. Legal FrameworkThe intended legal path rests on two steps already used in limited form:
- Individual resignation or completion of service obligations in the home military, followed by a personal contract of service with the Armed Forces of Ukraine under existing Ukrainian rules for foreign volunteers.
- Transfer of equipment to Ukrainian ownership before it is assigned to the detachment.
Under the Geneva Conventions, members of the Ukrainian Armed Forces who meet the standard criteria of combatant status (organized command, distinctive sign, open carriage of arms, compliance with the laws of war) are lawful combatants regardless of nationality. The arrangement is therefore framed as service within Ukrainian forces rather than as an independent private military company.Home-country laws on foreign enlistment and mercenary activity would still require case-by-case review. Many European states impose restrictions or notification requirements. More importantly, the concentration of recently resigned national specialists, combined with ongoing logistics for Western equipment, would be difficult to present as fully deniable. Adversaries are unlikely to accept formal status distinctions when determining targeting or escalation responses. Constraints and RisksManpower is the binding limit. Current European volunteer inflows into Ukrainian units are modest and dispersed; generating even a single fully crewed tank company would require active facilitation that governments have so far avoided. Equipment stocks remain constrained; large transfers of modern main battle tanks and infantry fighting vehicles reduce the donor army's own readiness for years. Sustainment of Western armor in Ukraine has proven difficult even with smaller numbers of systems, and specialist crews do not eliminate the need for continuous parts and ammunition pipelines.The political risk is structural. A formation that is recognizably composed of former German, British, or French tank crews operating former German equipment will be treated by Russia as an extension of those states' military power, regardless of the contractual paperwork. That risk is inherent to any significant expansion beyond today's individual volunteer model. ConclusionThe volunteer-detachment concept is a logical extension of historical precedent and of practices already visible in Ukraine at small scale. It does not resolve the underlying gap between European rhetoric and the willingness to accept casualties or escalation. At battalion or company scale it is operationally imaginable; at brigade scale it is not. Whether any government would choose to facilitate the resignations, equipment transfers, and political exposure required remains a separate question of will rather than of organizational design.This outline is offered solely for review and discussion. It does not constitute a proposal for action.
Sources
- Historical accounts of the American Volunteer Group (Flying Tigers), including U.S. government facilitation of resignations and Chinese employment of American personnel and aircraft prior to formal U.S. entry into World War II.
- Open reporting on the structure and scale of Ukraine's International Legion and affiliated foreign volunteer units, including light-infantry and special-purpose battalions.
- Descriptions of the German Volunteer Corps and other national volunteer elements operating under Ukrainian command.
- Standard organizational templates for mechanized battalions and brigades in Ukrainian and NATO-style ground forces (personnel strengths of approximately 500–600 per mechanized battalion and 3,000–4,000 per brigade).
- Contemporary reporting on European equipment transfers to Ukraine (Leopard tanks, Marder infantry fighting vehicles, Gepard systems) and the associated industrial and readiness constraints.
- Public statements by German Chancellor Friedrich Merz and other European leaders on continued support for Ukraine alongside rejection of certain U.S.-Russia energy or settlement initiatives.
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35thOVI  | 22 Oct 2026 12:49 p.m. PST |
Maybe "The Abraham Lincoln Brigade". For those who don't know who they were. I actually met a member who survived and was later a belly gunner on a B17. Talked about both with him. The Abraham Lincoln Brigade was a group of roughly 2,800 American volunteers who traveled to Spain between 1936 and 1938 to fight against General Francisco Franco's fascist nationalist forces during the Spanish Civil War
SB I think most who would fight for them went over early. Many of the interviews with the ones who have come back that I've read or heard, were not happy with how the Ukrainians handled them. But then again, I doubt they had any concept of the type of war that they were getting themselves into. Who would want to fight WW1 again. Seeing the conflict on TV today, probably has changed a lot of enthusiasm. Fine as long as Ukrainians are dying, "Go Boys Go!! Give them Hell!!". Different thing if they were asked to get into the meat grinder. Let me give everyone perspective: The average life expectancy of a new Russian assault soldier on active sectors of the Ukrainian front line is estimated at 20 to 35 minutes after reaching the combat zone, according to CIA Director John Ratcliffe, reports in Business Insider, and Russian military bloggers. Key Breakdown of Front-Line Survival and Attrition:
• Time on the Frontline: Once deployed to active assault positions, individual survival is measured in minutes—typically 20 to 35 minutes—heavily driven by dense saturation from AI-powered and first-person view (FPV) attack drones. • Overall Service Lifespan: From the time a new recruit signs a contract and arrives at a training camp to combat death, the expected lifespan is roughly 10 days to 3 weeks. • Training Time: Reports indicate many Russian front-line recruits are sent into combat zones with only about 10 to 21 days of basic preparation. • Casualty Rates: Western intelligence and media estimates place monthly Russian casualties at around 30,000 men, with cumulative losses surpassing 1.4 million troops since the start of the full-scale invasion. Ukraine The average front-line survival or life expectancy for a Ukrainian soldier is not quantified by a single minute-by-minute figure like the 20 to 35 minutes cited for Russian assault troops, because Ukrainian forces rely primarily on defensive fortification, rotational cycles, and asymmetric drone defense rather than constant human-wave "meat-grinder" assaults. However, Western intelligence agencies, human rights monitors, and military analysts track overall casualty and mortality metrics for Ukrainian personnel: Key Metrics for Ukrainian Front-Line Personnel • Total Cumulative Casualties: Western intelligence assessments and tracking published via Russia Matters estimate that the Ukrainian military has suffered roughly 500,000 to 625,000 total casualties (including killed, wounded, missing, and permanent losses) since February 2022. • Fatalities Estimates: President Volodymyr Zelenskyy and Western intelligence estimates place confirmed Ukrainian military fatalities between 55,000 and 150,000+ deaths, varying by how missing-in-action and long-term wounded who pass away are categorized. • Monthly Attrition Rate: Ukrainian losses are significantly lower on a monthly basis than Russian losses—with Ukrainian monthly casualties estimated around 5,000 per month (compared to over 30,000+ monthly losses on the Russian side). • Front-Line Rotations and "Burnout": While general frontline survival is measured across months or years of service rather than minutes, localized hot-spot sectors (such as intense urban or eastern trench battles) have historically seen extreme danger; earlier in heavy localized battles like Bakhmut, short-term survival for frontline infantry during peak engagements was anecdotally described by foreign volunteers as a matter of hours, though standard operational deployment involves defensive rotation shifts. • The Asymmetric Gap: According to assessments shared by institutions like the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS), the overall casualty ratio shifted heavily to roughly 8-to-1 in favor of Ukrainian survival versus Russian losses in active 2026 combat sectors, largely due to Ukraine's heavy integration of FPV and AI-assisted defensive drone networks.
Better chance on the Ukrainian side, but still a meat grinder. Volunteers?? |
SBminisguy  | 22 Oct 2026 1:03 p.m. PST |
Better chance on the Ukrainian side, but still a meat grinder.Volunteers?? Our European allies say this is an existential war, that peace talks are a betrayal akin to surrender, that surrender is not an option and they are in it to win it. My simple suggestion is a way for them to contribute more materially to Ukraine's defense needs than pleasant statements and cash. Ukraine needs trained troops – Europe can provide them. This also creates interesting WARGAMING opportunities. * Would you play this with modified Team Yankee rules? * Would you need to add command modifiers based on the ability of European and Ukrainian C3 coordination? * If running a campaign game, does each EVG (European Volunteer Group) need its own morale track by which the sponsoring nation loses heart and pulls its unit home; or a level at which additional EVG resources are commited? |
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