"Les musiciens au combat" Topic

Bonjour à tous.

Où se situaient les musiciens pendant une bataille ?

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Je suis très sceptique sur ce dessin, je pensais que les musiciens n'étaient pas engagés au combat.

Qu'en pensez-vous?

Traduction Google:

Hello everyone.

Where were the musicians during a battle?

I'm very skeptical about this drawing, I thought musicians weren't engaged in combat.

What do you think?

Cordialement
Bernard

D'accord

Some of the musicians were key to transmitting orders – drummers and trumpeters – and for the rest, acted as stretcher-bearers and field medics for wounded soldiers

The musicians served broader purposes off the battlefield

link

The musicians of the regimental band, I assume, the tête de colonne, because drummers and trumpeters are another story.

Read Chevillet's memoirs trumpeter of the 8e Chasseurs à cheval and also a member of the regimental band as seconde clarinette

As regimental/company trumpeters, they shared the fate of their companies. However, there were also non-combattants gagistes among them, and they did not have the same status as the soldiers of the regiment. This was the case in the 8e Chasseurs à cheval, where these gagistes did not necessarily follow the regiment :

his regimental band was organized, disbanded, reorganized, again disbanded

Our colonel has just created a band in the regiment; that is to say, until now we had only been trumpeters who played fanfares in a military style. Now we are going to become a proper wind band, organized with all the necessary instruments. A bandmaster has been brought in, and trumpeters and chasseurs with some knowledge of music have been selected. Some gagistes have also been recruited to complete the band as much as possible.

I have been assigned to play second clarinet, which I am practicing diligently. It is Captain Planzeaux, an amateur musician, who has taken charge of organizing the band; he is putting a great deal of care and energy into it, and the colonel's wishes have already been fulfilled. We have all been given new uniforms of a distinctive style (canary yellow, green velvet, richly braided).

Our little band is already ready to perform wherever it is needed, at the head of the regiment, on foot or on horseback, in camp or on the march. In short, I am pleased with my new position; this does not prevent me from carrying out my duties as a trumpeter as usual.

(…)

My friend, I have been 25 days aboard, anchored in the Texel roadstead. There is still no talk either of setting sail for England or of disembarking.
However, as our band was not very satisfied with its situation aboard the Trie Zusters, particularly the bandmaster and the gagistes, who are rather delicate gentlemen and could not get used to the uproar of the crew, our colonel, who was well disposed towards them, did everything he could to improve our situation. On 19 August, everything that made up the band was taken ashore.

(…)

From the bivouac after Neuburg, October 9, 1805
(18 Vendémiaire, Year XIV).

My dear friend,

It is only after having already travelled more than 80 leagues through Germany that I have found the time to give you some news of myself. I shall tell you first that, when we crossed the Rhine, our band fell into the water—that is to say, it was disbanded. The gagistes as well as the maître de musique, not being soldiers and therefore not being obliged to go to war, did not want to cross the Rhine with us. Some deserted, while others asked for their discharge. Consequently, I, along with my colleagues, remain attached as a trumpeter to the 2nd company, to which I belong.
(…)
The band of our regiment is not as large as the infantry bands. It is sufficient for it to be made up of between 16 and 17 men selected from within the regiment, among the trumpeters and chasseurs. Each receives an allowance, or additional pay, on top of his ordinary wages, according to his ability and musical talent. I receive the maximum: one franc a day in addition to my trumpeter's pay, which is 14 sous a day.

We are well dressed, well equipped, and receive campaign rations. Here we have nothing but a varied succession of exercises and entertainments, in which the band always takes an active part, and we often earn some extra money from them.

(…)

I must also tell you, my friend, that our band has been dissolved. We have returned to our duties in our respective companies, except for a few men who remain with the regiment's baggage train, together with our bandmaster and the most cumbersome instruments.

There is a account of a Prussian drummer who entered Leipzig, threw his drum on his back, picked a musket and cartridge box, and started to fight.

Nous sommes d'accord.

Je vois plutôt les musiciens régimentaires avec le train de bagages régimentaire.
En même temps que les docteurs, infirmiers, comptables, etc

Merci à tous.

I would investigate a little more. Officially, I recall that there should have been only 8 regimental musicians. The regimental band, with more men, 20 to 40, was at the discretion of the officers and the colonel…

The story of the Prussian drummer is similar to that of the trumpeter Chevillet, but him definitively left both of his posts: company trumpeter and second clarinet in the regimental band to be a basic chasseur

given it is said that they are strecher-bearers for wounded in the battlefield I had a quick look at Nebiha Guiga's thesis, Les blessés de Napoléon, to see whether she mentioned the role of musicians, but there was very little about it :

the non-combatants who followed the armies also played a role in caring for the wounded. The cantinières and vivandières are mentioned, notably by Cadet de Gassicourt and Pouget. The latter reports that they gave water to the wounded on the battlefield at Austerlitz and emphasizes their courage. However, such references are fairly rare, as these women wrote few memoirs. Their actual role would require further specific research to be better understood.

In both the French and Baden armies, regimental musicians did not take part in combat. Gervais, noting their presence—though the factual accuracy of this account would need to be verified—at Austerlitz, summarizes their role within a regiment as follows:

"That day—we had never seen this before—all the bands marched at the head of the regiments. As a result, several musicians were killed or wounded; this was something entirely new, since most of these men, being gagistes, were well paid to make music, but not to get themselves killed."

Non-combatants, but present behind the lines near the battlefield, these men in fact played a role in caring for the wounded, even though they were under no obligation to do so. Balthasar Eccardt, an oboist in the Baden army [Balthasar Eccardt ein Badischer-Hautboist, Karlsruhe, Braun, 1816], went onto the battlefield after Wagram and gave water to the wounded using an improvised canteen, taking the initiative himself when confronted with the sight of wounded soldiers dying of thirst. His French counterpart, Philippe-René Girault, had more elaborate and organized methods after the battle of Aspern-Essling on the island of Lobau. It is also interesting to note that he helped wounded soldiers quite regularly and had, in particular, assisted a surgeon during amputations. At the siege of Colberg in 1807. At Aspern-Essling, he provided first aid to the wounded waiting to cross the river, together with his fellow musicians, and even requisitioned Austrian prisoners, who nevertheless fled as soon as they could. He managed the meager resources available to them

The French officer Raymond de Montesquiou-Fezensac wrote the following about the Battle of Elchingen:

"We were marching in reserve that day, and we saw the wounded coming back, either on foot or in carts. This is a painful sight for a regiment containing many conscripts, and it does little to prepare them to go into action in their turn. An old soldier amused them by telling them that we were still a long way off, since the musicians were at the head of our column. At that very moment, we saw two of them coming back; there was general rejoicing."

The conscripts' fear is clearly visible in this passage: experiencing war for the first time through the sight of wounded men returning, even before having experienced the excitement of battle, is presented as particularly difficult. It is also worth noting how the older soldiers collectively dealt with this fear by making fun of the musicians, who were gagistes, civilians, and therefore did not take part in combat.

During the Battle of Jena, Parquin and his regiment were close enough to a Prussian regimental band to recognize their own former regimental bandmaster…!

A column of Prussian troops, with its band at the head, was marching past the front of the regiment when the bandmaster was recognized by the chasseurs, despite having taken the precaution of concealing his face.

"It's Javot," said the chasseurs.

And indeed, this Javot had formerly been the bandmaster of the 20th Chasseurs Regiment. He was a gagiste, and, besides being a good composer, he was an excellent horn player. When Colonel Marigny had temporarily left the regiment in Holland, Javot, to whom the colonel often gave substantial gratuities from his own pocket, no longer wished to remain with the regiment and went to Prussia in order to make use of his talent in Berlin. Then, after a Prussian colonel offered him attractive terms, he enlisted in his regiment, which was captured in its entirety. Major Castex, who, on returning from a charge at the head of the 7th, came to take command of the 20th, claimed Javot, who was immediately returned to him. He was made to remove his Prussian uniform and put on that of his old regiment.

We had lost enough men on the battlefield to find him a uniform that fitted him, and Javot entered Berlin at the head of the regiment eight days after being taken prisoner, and only three weeks after he had left that city at the head of the Prussian regiment.

many references to Louis Sabon futur chef de musique du 69e in Frédéric Berjaud's website and the presence of gagistes among them
link
Iéna 1806
Je retrouvai mon 69e en bataille, il allait s'ébranler à son tour ; j'avais ramassé une jolie carabine prussienne sur le champ de bataille, ce que voyant le vieux capitaine Monnier me dit en me frappant sur l'épaule : "Tu es un bon bougre, toi, car de tous les musiciens tu es le premier que je vois depuis huit jours." Il est vrai que, n'ayant aucun intérêt, ni consigne, ni bravoure non plus à rester près du danger, les musiciens sont comme les corbeaux, ils n'aiment pas la poudre, ils la fuyent donc à toutes jambes, et ne rejoignent leur corps que quand leur instinct conservateur leur apprend que tout danger est passé.
(…)
C'est à ce moment que plusieurs de nos meilleurs musiciens gagistes quittèrent spontanément le régiment pour aller s'engager dans l'armée d'Italie, qui occupait un meilleur pays que la Pologne. Trois d'entr'eux laissèrent à la grande halte leurs instruments sur la grosse caisse ; l'embarras du maître de musique fut grand dans cette circonstance, surtout pour le remplacement de celui qui tenait l'emploi de clarinette en fa, qui a tout le chant à soutenir. Moi je n'étais encore que cymbalier; on me remit cette clarinette à porter, persuadé qu'on était que ces musiciens nous reviendraient, qu'ils s'étaient oubliés dans une auberge.
(…)
mon camarade Charve, qui était faible musicien-soldat trombone, n'osa non plus prendre ma défense, non plus que les autres musiciens qui, sauf les gagistes, n'étaient que soldats.

Merci pour cette nouvelle réponse.

Philippe-René Girault, we understand why the musicians, save in Valmy for him, were nicknammed the "away from the bullets" loin des balles

Régiment de Perche à Valmy 1792,
j'eus bientôt rejoint mon régiment, qui prenait part au combat. Au moment où le feu était le plus animé, le fils du duc d'Orléans, surnommé général EGALITE (Louis-Philippe), vint au milieu de notre musique et nous dit: « Musiciens, il y a assez longtemps que l'on joue Ça ira, jouez-nous donc Ça va. » A l'instant nous nous mimes à jouer et toutes les musiques en firent autant. Mais cela ne dura pas longtemps; car le morceau était à peine commencé que deux de nos musiciens étaient blessés et un tué, ce qui fit bien vite cesser la musique. Pour moi je n'étais pas trop rassuré, car c'était la première fois que je voyais le feu. Heureusement j'en fus quitte pour avoir mon habit tout emplâtré de la cervelle d'un officier qui fut tué à quelques pas devant moi. La même décharge d'artillerie qui nous avait épouvantés, avait emporté vingt-et-un hommes du premier rang de notre cinquième compagnie. Nous étions obligés de nous coucher par terre à chaque instant pour éviter les éclats d'obus
(…)
6e Bataillon de la Haute Saône, Pirmasens
notre première rencontre avec l'ennemi ne fut pas à notre avantage. Un Représentant du peuple qui était attaché à l'armée nous fit faire deux lieues au pas de charge pour joindre l'ennemi, puis il fit mettre le bataillon en colonne serrée et ordonna à la musique de jouer "Ça ira". A peine avions-nous commencé qu'un obus tombe au milieu de notre cercle et fait cesser la musique, sans cependant nous faire de mal. Le Représentant fait alors battre la charge et, malgré les observations du général qui voyait l'impossibilité d'engager le combat, il ordonne de marcher en avant.
Nous autres musiciens nous nous retirons dans une ferme qui était près de là, pour soigner les blessés qu'on y transportait et aussi pour nous mettre à l'abri. Nous n'y restâmes pas longtemps : les boulets vinrent nous en chasser. Je mets le nez dehors, je vois alors notre armée dans une déroute complète et l'ennemi sur nos talons. J'appelle mes camarades et nous voilà à courir à toutes jambes.
(…)
102e Demi-Brigade 1794
La fusillade s'engagea et notre division eut à peine le temps de se mettre en bataille pour faire face à l'ennemi. Mes camarades et moi nous nous réfugiâmes derrière un village, dans les vergers, où nous trouvâmes quantité de musiciens qui venaient comme nous se mettre à l'abri. Un caporal qui, pour s'échapper du feu, était venu parmi nous fut puni de sa lâcheté. Un obus égaré, ayant éclaté au milieu de nous, lui cassa la jambe sans faire de mal à aucun autre.
(…)
5e Régiment de Hussards 1800
Nous étions d'avant-garde et comme depuis deux jours nous ne rencontrions plus d'ennemis, la musique marchait en tête du régiment. En sortant d'un grand village, le 9 au matin, nous fûmes accueillis par une vive fusillade. Ce n'était pas l'affaire des musiciens, aussi nous voilà bien vite à prendre notre poste derrière le régiment. Quelque temps après, le combat devenant général, nous nous retirions sur une hauteur d'où nous pouvions tout voir sans danger. (…) Notre régiment fut envoyé pour soutenir l'attaque d'un de nos régiments d'infanterie qui était aux prises avec deux bataillons hongrois. Ceux-ci lâchèrent pied, laissant entre nos mains une cinquantaine de prisonniers. Ces prisonniers furent les bienvenus, car ils nous tirèrent pour un moment du champ de bataille où nous autres musiciens n'avions que faire. On nous ordonna de les conduire au quartier-général. Notre mission remplie, nous nous mîmes en quête d'une auberge pour déjeuner et nous chauffer, en attendant le résultat de la bataille.
(…)
93e de ligne
siège de Colberg 1807
Nous autres, musiciens, nous nous étions mis à l'abri derrière quelques mamelons de sable
Wagram île Lobau 1809
Le lendemain, 6 juillet, au lever du soleil, nous entendîmes gronder le canon. C'était la bataille de Wagram qui commençait. Sur les neuf heures, nous allions nous mettre en route pour rejoindre notre régiment, lorsque nous vîmes déboucher des ponts une masse de fuyards criant: « En retraite, en retraite. » Ce fut alors une panique générale dans toute l'île Lobau. Les cantiniers, les musiciens, les infirmiers, toute la foule des non-combattants, le parc des bœufs, les vivres, l'ambulance, tout cela se mit à courir en désordre du côté des ponts de la rive droite

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english version

Perche Regiment at Valmy, 1792
I soon rejoined my regiment, which was taking part in the fighting. At the moment when the firing was at its fiercest, the son of the Duke of Orléans, known as General Égalité (Louis-Philippe), came among our band and said to us:
"Musicians, you have been playing Ça ira long enough; so play us Ça va."
We immediately began to play, and all the other bands did the same. But this did not last long, for the piece had scarcely begun when two of our musicians were wounded and one was killed, which very quickly brought the music to a halt.
As for me, I was not particularly reassured, since it was the first time I had ever been under fire. Fortunately, I got away with nothing worse than having my uniform covered in the brains of an officer who was killed a few paces in front of me.
The same artillery discharge that had terrified us had carried away twenty-one men from the front rank of our Fifth Company. We were forced to throw ourselves flat on the ground every moment in order to avoid the shell fragments.
(…)
6th Battalion of Haute-Saône — Pirmasens 1793
Our first encounter with the enemy did not go in our favor. A Representative on Mission who was attached to the army made us march two leagues at the double to join the enemy. He then had the battalion formed into a tightly packed column and ordered the band to play Ça ira.
We had barely begun when a shell fell in the middle of our circle and brought the music to a halt, although fortunately it did us no harm.
The Representative then ordered the charge to be sounded and, despite the objections of the general, who could see that it was impossible to engage the enemy, ordered us to advance.
We musicians withdrew into a nearby farm, both to tend to the wounded who were being brought there and to seek shelter ourselves. We did not remain there long: cannonballs drove us out.
I poked my head outside and saw our army in complete rout, with the enemy on our heels. I called to my comrades, and off we went, running as fast as our legs could carry us.
(…)
102nd Demi-Brigade 1794
The musketry began, and our division barely had time to form up for battle and face the enemy. My comrades and I took refuge behind a village, in the orchards, where we found a large number of musicians who, like us, had come to seek shelter. A corporal who had fled the fire and joined us was punished for his cowardice. A stray shell exploded in our midst and broke his leg without injuring anyone else.
(…)
5th Hussar Regiment, 1800
We were the advance guard, and since we had not encountered any enemy for two days, the band was marching at the head of the regiment. As we were leaving a large village on the morning of the 9th, we were greeted by heavy musket fire. This was no business for the musicians, so we quickly took up our position behind the regiment. Some time later, as the fighting became general, we withdrew to a height from which we could see everything without being in danger.
(…)
Our regiment was sent to support the attack of one of our infantry regiments, which was engaged with two Hungarian battalions. The latter gave way, leaving about fifty prisoners in our hands.
These prisoners were a welcome sight, because for a moment they took us musicians away from the battlefield, where we had no business being. We were ordered to escort them to headquarters.
Having completed our mission, we set out in search of an inn where we could have breakfast and warm ourselves while waiting for the outcome of the battle.
(…)
93rd Regiment of the Line
Siege of Colberg, 1807
We musicians had taken shelter behind a few sandy mounds.
Wagram — Lobau Island, 1809
The following day, July 6, at sunrise, we heard the cannon rumbling. It was the Battle of Wagram beginning.
Around nine o'clock, we were about to set out to rejoin our regiment when we saw a mass of fugitives emerging from the bridges, shouting: "Retreat! Retreat!"
There was then a general panic throughout the whole of Lobau Island.
The sutlers, the musicians, the orderlies, the entire crowd of non-combatants, the herd of oxen, the provisions, the ambulance—everything began running in disorder toward the bridges on the right bank.

Those diary entries are fascinating. Lilian.

In addition to those, there is the famous incident at Aspern-Essling where the Austrian regiment IR17 Reuß Plauen is said to have been led into battle by its regimental band, playing rousing religious music to spur them on.

Of course the very notability of incidents like these are probably evidence of their rarity. I think I'd be learning to play the triangle if I saw war looming and I'd be keen to be standing somewhere safe :^)

They could be a really cool vignette to have at the camp or at a previously occupied objective in games that set objectives, perhaps replacing an objective marker once it has been taken.

Cheers,
John