"Box cover art for upcoming game" Topic

I need to do the box cover art for my game which will be released soon. Since I'm a terrible artist and my graphics design skills are minimal I asked ChatGPT images to give me an idea.

I wanted a Panther and T-34/85 engaged in a fight and use info from my game already stored for the AI content. The initial layout was pretty good but I had the AI make a number of changes. I had to do some final changes in MS Paint for the Panther turret, cupola, tools on the hull side.

The only thing left that is AI is the tank images and the background. After I get it finalized I'll have a graphics artist redo it as I'd rather not use AI in the final version.

The AI suggested the Fast Play, Realistic and Intense, I'll explain.

Fast Play: The turns go by quickly getting to the action without a lot of traditional rules. The amount of time it takes depends on the scenario and player decisions.

Realistic: I prefer historical as realistic is subjective. The system does portray historic rates of fire, movement, engagement times and tactics in a playable way with a minimum of abstraction. The gun fire and damage rules are based on real factors, not an abstracted "To Hit #."

Intense: Any game can make that claim. A single important die roll can be the most intense part of the game. With the OODA Loop timing as turn is announced sequentially nothing may happen and the next turn is announced, or one of more players may pause the game to react, maneuver or execute an order.

Time Competitive: So if two tanks are shooting at each other and one shoots at 2:37 and one at 2:38 if the one at 2:37 his and kills his opponent was one second too slow and it may be because of the players decision. He could have traded decreased accuracy for increased speed to shoot first but did not. That's basically the same dilemma gunners have.

Scale: All of the distances are in meters so you can scale the game to whatever you want. For micro armor to 1/144 scale I use 1" = 25m. The larger the scale model the shorter the 1" distance should be.

Data Cards: These have the specific data for each vehicle and model for the Action Timing performance, speed, characteristics based on historical performance.

D6: Players roll a D6 on the data card to see how long an action will take as it is somewhat variable. Ace crews are quicker, poor crews slower.

There is no need for traditional IGYG and unit activation rules.

Any feedback appreciated. I'm not entirely satisfied with the background.

Wolfhag

" After I get it finalized I'll have a graphics artist redo it as I'd rather not use AI in the final version."

So, it's OK for the computer to do the grunt work as long as the human copies it and gets credit for the final product?

Just asking. I'm still dreaming of a traditional SF Mars story, and it's pretty clearly going to have to be computer-generated. (No human will ever write one again: too busy cranking out romantasy, "urban" fantasy, cyberpunk and MilSF.)

Aren't those two tanks extremely close to one another?

I agree, use NG a further view of the tanks allows for less picky criticism on the appearance of the tanks. Having both tanks further back . Imgo

Yeah, first thing my eyes saw was "Realistic" and the two tanks within 8 feet of each other. Maybe rotate them to face the viewer and not be in a battle situation? Perhaps have them facing in or out 15-20 degrees then ditch the small one in the upper right?

The 3rd tank also looks a bit different in background with static pose while being on fire

Might also try Gemini or other AI program for different samples

I dont have a problem with AI art – so long as it makes sense

I don't understand what you mean by the OOD A Loop?

"OODA Loop."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OODA_loop

Tank jousting? Rampanzer? Sounds like fun.

Interesting, thank you

If you consider the AI version as a sketch for the graphic artist, then it seems a legitimate method to me. I can't sketch, myself

OODA I don't remember what that is, so leave it off the front page

"Realistic" is the wrong word. The image is unrealistic, but cool and eye catching. I would get rid of that banner completely. AI repeats what it has seen, not necessarily what makes sense. Again, I would take anything out of the bottom banner that doesn't make me want to rush out and buy it. For instance ground scale

Good luck

John

The AI is Horrible!

I would not even consider buying a game with this type of cover.

I would buy this long before that (and did)

Kim

How is the OP cover radically different than other similar ones done by people?

Remember, AI doesn't "make stuff up". It rearranges existing stuff.

I have no problem with the OODA loop being on the cover.

I would lose "NOT" anything on the cover. It borders on disparaging others' approach and may alienate your audience.

I've seen quite a few of your posts, and I don't think you want to disparage IGYG … it's just not useful for the type of game you are looking for.

Thanks for the feedback. My real life experience is sales and marketing. I've been working with some other accomplished game designers and publishers on this cover too.

I see AI mainly as a use for rapid prototyping, making easy changes and idea generation. I'm still learning. I've been using the free ChatGPT version image generator so it is not the best one available.

What I want to accomplish is:
Eye catching graphics that sort of pop out at you
Name recognition
Your first impression it is a tank battle
It gives you just enough info to peak your interest
The details on the vehicles are close to 100% authentic (they are not quite there yet).

Very few game box covers are realistic, that's just not how things are done today. It's advertising, just like a movie poster that may have images that don't appear in the movie.

I was pretty specific on my prompt. I gave it a link to look at the tank images to use and not to include anything copyrighted. I said put the tanks in a battle scene but did not specify which type of setting so that's what I got. I told it to only use descriptions from my game which were already saved in the program. I didn't want the AI to be looking all through the internet and come back with incorrect info. Overall it did pretty good after a few run throughs.

Aren't those two tanks extremely close to one another?
It's a small box <grin>.

Jousting Tanks, I like that. Maybe I should change the name?

OODA I don't remember what that is, so leave it off the front page
I can see that but it may also get someone's interest up to look on the back of the box. The back of the box will have more detailed info and a QR code to bring up a short descriptive video.

Last December we had a detailed discussion on OODA and IGYG differences: TMP link

KimRyoung:
Any particular part terrible or the entire image and concept? The image you posted is for a game for ages 8 to adult, I would not buy it based on that alone, not the cover.

I'll take the "NOT" out. I was trying to set it apart.

Above is a previous image with a descriptive sidebar the AI included in the first try. I'm going to use it on the back cover where the real info should reside.

We do have a guy that is talking to Roger McGowan's son about using some of his copy righted art work.

Can anyone suggest an existing cover design or idea that would fit what I'm looking for?

Thanks,
Wolfhag

I would surmise that you're caught between:
(1) Dramatic, close-in scene that is compellingly unrealisitc
and
(2) Overhead, very abstract realistic representation that is boring in one snapshot

Very much like you said … movie poster style.

I have the same challenge with modern Naval combat. The reality of it, in a snapshot looks like nerds at computer terminals…

because that's what it it is.

I now raise a beer to the nerds who collectively kept me from being killed by an incoming anti-ship missile. Several missiles, in fact.

OK, OK, I'll drink several beers, if you insist.

But when you stitch several individual snapshots together in series, it is a compelling, challenging tactical problem. Not easy to summarize in 120 characters or less.

That said, I like the jousting tanks.

I know it's not realistic in tactical terms, but it makes a compelling statement.

You could also 'steal' inspiration from the Helen of Toy game Tank Trap ad illustration (found in select comic books.) It had a pretty dramatic (and unrealistic ;-) scene as I recall… ;-)

Is it a game or a set of rules to play games? Game to me means everything to play is included.

OODA Loop: Riding a bike down a busy path. A dog runs out. You see the dog (Observe), know it will cross your path (Orient) and you consider whether to brake or swerve and brake (Decide), and squeeze the handles (Act) and your bike halts in a couple of seconds, hopefully before you hit the dog. You do this non-stop while moving together with everyone else.

Why OODA Feels More Natural
No Waiting: You never sit and zone out while the other person takes ten minutes.

Real Reactions: If an enemy runs into the open, you react, engage and shoot them right then. You immediately observe the result of the shot and determine what your next action will be based on how long it will take.

Smart Flow: Your brain naturally reacts to danger and does something rather than "waiting" for your turn. The OODA Loop system matches more like how real life works. Remember, you are always observing.

Wolfhag

Thanks for the feedback guys. It got me thinking of a different approach.

The first effort was all AI generated. I had problems getting the details on the Panther correct and overall I didn't like the collision looking image but it did generate action.

What I did was edit the last image by removing the AI Panther, background of buildings and made the T-34 smaller to make it appear further away.

I took a Panther image from a 1/35 scale modeling site (not sure if it copyrighted but I'll check) and pasted it into the image where I wanted it. I found an image of a German tank commander I had been editing and I sized it and pasted it onto the cupola.

I took the modified image and put it back into ChatGPT and told the AI to eliminate the background and have the sky hazy at ground level and the shade blue up to the top with no clouds. The foreground image should be grassy.

Here is the result:

I like this on a lot better and it is more me editing than AI generated.

Wolfhag

I like this one better:

Wolfhag

I'd go with second one. The commander is looking in an unlikely direction if i was picky.

I like the second one with the tankers at the top. And the explaination of "time competitive" is compelling.

I think both pictures are missing some Soviet screaming class alfa fires…

I do like the background in the original. Or any background. While the "tanks too close" doesn't bother me, "why are these two tanks in an empty prairie" does, a little.

Andy,
How can you tell what direction he should be looking?

Wolfhag

Put in what OODA means and adjusted turret:

I made the changes, not the AI.

Wolfhag

At least one enemy was directly behind him.

I didn't really look at the text. There's quite a lot of info there. Nowadays would you ask an ai in your browser for a summary of a prospective purchase's mechanics?

You can ask AI that.

The best case is that the only information available freely on the web or other corpora sources is well-structured and written from something close to your perspective. If you know a couple sources you trust, you could have an LLM-GPT to summarize them. Or you could just read them yourselves.

The problem is you won't start to get the volume of data where that approach is beneficial until you also start to get wildly varying quality, perspective, and content in reviews.

A publisher could have a custom corpora and guiderail application that allows people to ask general questions about the rules.

Latest update:

All edits, no AI.

Wolfhag

Here is the final version:

The AI did not perform well for the tank tracks and the Russian TC. The TC arm was too long and the helmet was wrong. When asked to fix it the AI inserted a new TC in the cupola. I edited myself. Can you se his shoulder board rank? It put the treads in front of the T-34 and failed on several more attempts. I edited them but need work. I put in a new German TC from my collection, not AI. The blackout light was wrong so I put in a new one.

It is stated the main use for ChatGPT is for rapid design and changes. To make small changes you need to edit them yourself but it did a good job on the kill markings. I've found it is best to use your own images in a layout and then give the AI instructions on how to fill out the rest. It did not create or edit either tank. The ground, sky and background, and fire on the T-34 are all AI.

This is my first try with the free version, maybe I'll read the manual.

Wolfhag

You should see the T34s I got Meshy to create. One has 3 turrets.