"Iran – America's Vietnam?" Topic

"Iran's top negotiator Mohammad Bagher Ghalibaf says the Strait of Hormuz is Tehran's "greatest instrument of power" and insists talks on a final deal will not begin until MoU provisions are implemented."

link

They want the money & they know they have the whip hand.

"The current situation is already beneficial for Tehran "as Iran is able to export oil and this means it is able to fill up its financial reserves", he told Al Jazeera.

"So the longer this situation lasts, the more Iran benefits from the financial revenues," Pusztai said."

This is shaping up to be a debacle. If Tehran can continue exporting oil while delaying a final agreement, time appears to work in its favour rather than Washington's. The longer negotiations drag on, the more leverage Iran may accumulate and the harder it could become to secure meaningful concessions. Unless something changes, this risks becoming another drawn-out diplomatic process with diminishing returns.

TBH I have no idea what the US can do to save the situation.

I heard on Talk Radio (🙄😱🤷) yesterday that 60 out of the 88 members of the Council of Experts, the men who select the Supreme Leader, that any Muslim near Trump or Netanyahu has a duty to kill them "in their country". This is in retaliation for the Death of Ayatollah Khamenei on the first day.
Hyperbole? Knowing that lot, probably not.
So, it's far from over.

And before some accuses me of favoring it due to my TDS…. Take a hike.

John that isn't new.

"Iran's threats and proposed bounties targeting Donald Trump stem specifically from his role in the January 2020 drone strike that killed Iranian General Qassem Soleimani in Baghdad."

"Ongoing Plotting: The U.S. Justice Department has prosecuted individuals in connection to alleged Iranian murder-for-hire plots aimed at assassinating Trump to avenge Soleimani.

Escalation in the Middle East: As direct conflicts escalated between the U.S. and Iran, official rhetoric from Tehran continued to frame the targeting of Trump and other American leaders as an act of retaliation."

But Trump's NOT unique.

"Iran and its proxy networks have systematically targeted American citizens, military personnel, and diplomatic facilities globally since the 1979 Islamic Revolution. Opposition to the United States is a core founding pillar of the Islamic Republic's ideology

Iran's operations against Americans span over four decades and utilize a vast network of proxy groups"

I won't place the list of just the major ones. I've done that before. Many more small ones.

Given the opportunity, they would kill you, me or any other citizen here. Christian, Jewish, Muslim, straight, gay, trans, black, white, red, yellow, man, woman or child. We are all infidels in their eyes and deserving of death.

They actually feel that way about any who do not adhere to their radicalized Islamic beliefs (they even tell you this). But currently the great and little Satans are their prime concern.

We have also allowed vermin in our country who believe as they do and back their regime. They have already launched individual attacks here, most recently at the beginning of the conflict.

Ignore them, they will just work to kill us more quickly with no impediment….. and have to date.

Somehow that just does not register with some. 🙄

Trump's biggest mistake and the mistake every president has made since 79, is not stomping out the cockroaches who control that country, the Mullahs who advocate it and those who back it.

Same mistake the world has continued to make in not stomping out every outbreak of radical fundamentalist Islam, every time it arises!

While getting the terror gang is the real goal, not very easy, it seems, unless we go all out. They have not conducted a lot global acts since the war started, but one is too many. Surely John highlights why deals don't work….

When the war started, it was my opinion that the war was justified because Irans rhetoric about Israels destruction.I am not so sure about that anymore because of the then ongoing negotiations and the lack of means of Iran to actually destroy Israel. Potus talked about the total destruction of persian civilization, which is a crime according to international law. He has the means to do it.

So if it is okay for the USA to kill the political, religious and military leader of Iran, I cannot blame the Iran for trying to kill Potus.

"So if it is okay for the USA to kill the political, religious and military leader of Iran, I cannot blame the Iran for trying to kill Potus."

The part that so many seem to miss, mostly because of their dislike for Trump and in some instances the US and especially Israel, as well, is that the Iranians have been waging this war since 1979.

"When the war started, it was my opinion that the war was justified because Irans rhetoric about Israels destruction."

Rhetoric? How about the actual actions? With only the latest being Hamas and October 7, 2023 and Hezbollah launching attacks on Israel in support of Iran.

Continuously.

"Since 1979, Iran and its network of proxies have carried out hundreds of attacks, kidnappings, hijackings, and assassination plots against United States military personnel, diplomatic staff, and civilians. The U.S. Department of State has long designated Iran as a leading state sponsor of terrorism, directly tying the regime to asymmetric warfare worldwide."

These are just the large ones by Iran and her proxies:

"1979 – 1989
* November 1979 – January 1981: Iranian students backed by the regime seized the U.S. Embassy in Tehran, holding 66 Americans hostage for 444 days.
* April 1983: The Iran-backed Islamic Jihad Organization (a precursor to Hezbollah) bombed the U.S. Embassy in Beirut, killing 17 Americans. [1, 2]
* October 1983: Hezbollah operatives conducted a truck bombing at a Marine compound in Beirut, killing 241 U.S. military personnel.
* March 1984: Islamic Jihad kidnapped CIA station chief William Buckley in Beirut, torturing him until his death in 1985. [1]
* December 1984: Hezbollah hijacked Kuwait Airways Flight 221 to Tehran, where they tortured and murdered two American officials.

1990 – 2010
* June 1996: Iran-backed Hezbollah Al-Hijaz carried out a truck bomb attack at the Khobar Towershousing complex in Saudi Arabia, killing 19 U.S. Airmen and wounding nearly 500.
* August 1998: U.S. Embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed by al-Qaeda, an operation facilitated by Iran-backed Hezbollah, killing 224 people, including U.S. citizens. [1]
* 2003 – 2011: The U.S. Department of Defense reported that Iran-backed Iraqi militias and terror proxies were responsible for the deaths of at least 608 American service members using Explosively Formed Penetrators (EFPs) and roadside bombs. [1]

2011 – Present
* September 2012: Ongoing Iranian funding and training of militant groups in the Middle East contributed to the broader regional instability that saw attacks on U.S. diplomatic facilities.
* January 2024: A drone launched by Kataib Hezbollah killed three U.S. soldiers at the Tower 22 military base in Jordan.
* October 2023 – November 2024: The Foundation for Defense of Democracies recorded more than 180 attacks by Iran and its proxies on U.S. forces in the Middle East, resulting in three U.S. deaths.
* 2024 – 2025: The U.S. Department of Justice announced multiple charges and convictions of Iranian agents plotting assassinations on American soil, including a plan targeting a prominent Iranian-American journalist."

Seems as if Iran declared war on the U.S. decades ago! The U.S. is the one who has shown restraint.

"Death to America": Khomeini
"Israel must disappear": Khomeini

"(@khamenei_ir)
tweeted:
After negotiations, in Zionist regime they said they had no more concern about Iran for next 25 years; I'd say:
Firstly,
You will not see next 25 years; God willing, there will be nothing as Zionist regime by next 25 years.
Secondly,
Until then, struggling, heroic and jihadi morale will leave no moment of serenity for Zionists.
9 September 2015"

Yes, hard to misunderstand those remarks. Yet so many do.

What, do you think your country's so innocent?"

"What, do you think your country's so innocent?"

Not at all. No superpower is innocent. But there is a massive difference between a nation that makes historical mistakes while pursuing global stability, and a regime that uses active terror proxies as its primary foreign policy tool since 1979.

If global innocence were the only metric for national security, Germany would never be allowed to defend itself or its allies today. We have to deal with the strategic realities of the present, not just the balance sheets of the past.

What, do you think your country's so innocent?"

@SB:
I was not criticized. Tit for tat is not to be critized, it is even in the bible (a life for a life)
BTW what I (What, do you think your country's so innocent?") said is kind of a quote from Trump. (What, do you think our country's so innocent?")

Starting with 1979 does not give you the full picture anyway

@SBminisguy
I spit out my absinthe when I saw that. 👍
Naturally, I saved it. As is my policy! Egad!

🤔Past 1979? Ok

"The Persian Empire (what is now modern-day Iran) invaded "the West" first. This occurred in the 6th century BCE when the Persian Achaemenid Empire expanded aggressively into Western Asia Minor and Europe.

Persian Invasion of the West (546–490 BCE): Under Cyrus the Great, Persia invaded and conquered Western Asia Minor (modern-day Turkey). Later, Persian kings Darius and Xerxes launched major invasions into the European Greek mainland, famously sparking the Greco-Persian Wars."

So again… They started it. 🤣

But seriously, this reaction is for what has taken place since 1979. Long overdue and fully justified.

Israel's justification is their own and don't speak for them.

yeah, but the west viciously retaliated with "300"

Iran right now is under a islamic regime that is way to radical for Persia. I stated before that if Trump and Netanjahu free the iranian people from that regime something good would have been accomplished.

But who put that regime over Iran?

Answer: those same Iranian people.

Doesn't it sound all too familiar?
Same promises in venezuela.
Same promises in China.
Same promises in Russia
Same promises in NYC

Always the same and always those who want something for nothing and the goods of others. Always those who never ever learn and than shout:

"Free us from our oppressors!" 🙄

"During the 1979 Islamic Revolution, Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini and his followers promised the Iranian people a combination of economic justice, political freedom, and social equity to gain widespread public support for overthrowing the Shah.

Key promises made to the populace included:

* Free Utilities: Pledges for free water and electricity, as well as free bus transportation for the poor.

* Economic Welfare: Uprooting poverty and providing adequate housing, employment, healthcare, and education for all citizens. Furthermore, Khomeini promised that citizens would receive a direct share of Iran's national oil revenues.

* Democratic Freedom & Justice: The establishment of an Islamic republic that would guarantee freedom of speech, ensure democratic representation, and respect the rights of religious and ethnic minorities.

* Peace and Humanitarianism: In messages directed at the international community—including the United States—Khomeini promised that the new Islamic Republic would be a peaceful, humanitarian government that would not harbor animosity toward the West.

Following the success of the revolution, critics and human rights organizations point out that the ruling regime severely curtailed these promises, dismantling labor unions, suppressing political opposition, and failing to deliver on widespread economic prosperity."

Just for fun:

"Mayor of New York City Zohran Mamdani campaigned on a highly progressive platform aimed at lowering the cost of living for working-class New Yorkers.

His core promises included:

Rent Freezes: Immediately freezing the rent for all rent-stabilized tenants, backed by appointments to the Rent Guidelines Board.

Fare-Free Transit: Eliminating fares to make every city bus route free.

Free Childcare: Delivering universal, high-quality childcare for city families starting at six weeks of age.

Taxing the Wealthy: Raising income taxes on high-earning residents to fund municipal services and combat wealth inequality.

Government Culture: Transforming the culture of City Hall to one that expands government services instead of scaling them back"

Always the same and always the gullible.🙄

Starting with 1979 does not give you the full picture anyway

Y'all like to worry about Colonialism -- but Socialism and Communism are IDEOLOGICAL COLONIALISM. Invented in 19th-century Western Europe by Marx and Engels for industrial societies, they were forcibly exported to developing nations across Asia, Africa, Latin America, and beyond. These regimes didn't liberate—they conquered: Crushing local cultures, religions, tribes, and traditions as "backward feudal remnants."

Razing temples, banning faiths, erasing history, and slaughtering millions in the name of "progress."

From Soviet Central Asia to Mao's China to Pol Pot's Cambodia, it was cultural erasure wrapped in red flags, anti-imperialist" ideology is imperialism.

And let's apply this to Iran, eh?

Anti-Western "anti-colonialists" endlessly cry that the 1953 coup against Mossadegh was the original sin of Western interference in Iran. Reality check: Mossadegh wasn't some pure indigenous hero defending ancient Persia. He was a European-educated aristocrat whose government increasingly relied on and empowered the Soviet-backed Tudeh Communist Party. Tudeh mobs, Soviet influence and resources, and radical economic policies were pushing Iran toward chaos and a potential communist takeover during the height of the Cold War.

He wanted to impose WESTERN socialist-nationalist ideals (oil nationalization + heavy state control) on Iran's ancient, deeply traditional, Persian-Islamic society.

That's textbook ideological colonialism: a Western-derived system (socialism) forced onto a non-European civilization, treating its religious and cultural roots as obstacles. Sure, the coup was messy great-power politics (oil + anti-communism), but pretending Mossadegh represented pure local sovereignty while ignoring his foreign ideological backing and radical transformation agenda is historical gaslighting.

Bottom line: The real long-term cultural erasure in Iran came later with the 1979 Islamic Revolution's own totalitarianism. But the socialist flirtation in the 1950s was just another chapter of importing alien European ideologies to remake the Middle East.

Anti-colonial warriors always skip that part.

@John the OFM – glad I could impart a moment of levity into our oh so serious discussions here :)

OVI +1

SB +1

"Y'all like to worry about Colonialism "

Who?

"Y'all like to worry about Colonialism "

Who?

You, for example -- or why would you dredge up the 1953 coup against Mossadegh? The man, backed by the Soviets, had only been in power for two years of a half-century of Parliamentary Monarchy, and then was followed by another 26 years of Parliamentary Monarchy and is almost never referred to except by anti-Colonialist leftists who want to blame all of Iran's troubles on that single event.

I never mentioned the guy nor did I use the word colonialism. I am a leftist only from a US american prospective. So your rant about communism being forced on countries that does not fit the right formula (like Russia or Campodia) would get my approval. I grew up close to the Berlin wall (secteur francais), so even calling me a fan of socialism makes me smile. But I understand that in your world view there are only pro-Trump heroes on one side and communists on the other side.

…why would you dredge up the 1953 coup against Mossadegh?

It may be easily dismissed by YOU.
But to Iranians, it's part of their whole story of Yankee Imperialism. You would have to search, in vain, for Americans who have even heard of it.
But, in Iran, every schoolboy has it drilled into him.

It may be easily dismissed by YOU.
But to Iranians, it's part of their whole story of Yankee Imperialism. You would have to search, in vain, for Americans who have even heard of it.
But, in Iran, every schoolboy has it drilled into him.

Seriously??

No, the 1953 coup is not what every Iranian schoolboy has drilled into him in 2026.

You are missing the real story of modern Iran. Iranian communists, socialists, and Marxists actively helped Ayatollah Khomeini's 1979 Islamist Revolution. They saw the bearded cleric as a useful tool — a popular religious figure who could mobilize the streets and bring down the Shah. Their calculation was simple: use his movement to topple the monarchy, then push him aside. They assumed Khomeini would retire to Qom to preach and write aesthetic islamic poetry or something, leaving them in charge to build "scientific socialism."

They were catastrophically wrong. Once the Shah was gone, Khomeini's Islamists moved quickly and without mercy. The Tudeh communists, leftist guerrillas like the Fedaiyan and Mojahedin, and secular liberals were among the first to be purged. Thousands were hanged, shot, or tortured to death in Evin Prison during the early 1980s. The Islamists had no intention of sharing power. They built a theocratic police state rooted in Twelver Shia ideology.

The changes forced on Iran were profound. Ancient Persian culture was subordinated to revolutionary Shia Islam. Women were compelled to wear the hijab under the watchful eye of the morality police. Sharia law was imposed on everyday life, bringing stonings, amputations, and executions for apostasy, homosexuality, or "enmity against God." The economy was crippled by mismanagement and revolutionary upheaval. Iran became a pariah state by exporting its revolution through groups like Hezbollah, the Houthis, and Hamas. Protests were met with extreme violence, as seen in 2009, 2019, the 2022 Woman-Life-Freedom uprising and this year's pro-Freedom uprising which the regime suppressed by killing an estmimated 42,000 people – many just youngsters, the "boy" of your exmaple. We should also remember the casual brutality of the Iran-Iraq War (1980–1988). The regime sent waves of young men, including political dissenters, into penal brigades as cannon fodder and human mine clearers. Teenage boys were given plastic keys to paradise and ordered to walk across Iraqi minefields to open paths for regular troops. Hundreds of thousands died in these human-wave attacks.

After decades of mass executions, street slaughter, and this meat-grinder war, the moral lesson drilled into every schoolboy is brutally clear: obey the Supreme Leader and the Islamic system, or you will be beaten, imprisoned, raped, tortured, or sent to die.

The regime drills into every schoolboy this lesson ot fear, and that:
*Dissent makes you an enemy of God.
*The West and internal traitors are always plotting against the Revolution.
*Martyrdom for the regime is glorious.
*Question nothing.
*Obey everything.

Mossadegh receives a passing mention as an anti-imperialist hero. But the central national myth remains 1979 as a divine victory over tyranny, paired with constant vigilance against enemies.

And remember – the leftists who helped create this system were among its first victims.

That is the real cautionary tale — not a two-year prime ministership in the 1950s.The Iranian people have endured far more suffering under 47 years of theocratic tyranny than they did under the Shah or Mossadegh's short government. You know how many SAVAK actually killed?? Not to excuse that, but it's officially logged as around 300 people confirmed. Across 30 years.

Know how many were killed in the first year of the Ayatollah's rule? Iran itself says 60,000! I may not be the greatest at math, but the supposed authoritarian hellscape of the Shah saw 10 people killed by secret police per year, and the Ayatollah killed 60,000… so thats (counting on fingers)…a 600,000% increase in State brutality deaths.

So stop pretending that 1953 explains everything wrong in Iran, because that ignores what truly remade Iran: the ruthless imposition of radical Twelver Sharia. History's real lesson is not that Yankee imperialism ruined Iran. It is that trying to forcibly remake an ancient civilization with imported alien ideologies almost always ends in tyranny.

SB, I would agree. Everything changed with the fundamentalist take over of Iran. Totally different world view. That is why I think it is so hard for the West to figure Iran out. They mindset/world view is so utterly different than ours. That is why I have real doubts about a treaty with Iran.

Grattan54 +1 -- but we faced two such regimes in WW2, Imperial Japan and Nazi Germany. It's just that we like to think it's all different now and we've evolved past the use of force…

As it will be in the future, it was at the birth of Man
There are only four things certain since Social Progress began: —
That the Dog returns to his Vomit and the Sow returns to her Mire,
And the burnt Fool's bandaged finger goes wabbling back to the Fire;

And that after this is accomplished, and the brave new world begins
When all men are paid for existing and no man must pay for his sins,
As surely as Water will wet us, as surely as Fire will burn,
The Gods of the Copybook Headings with terror and slaughter return!

@SB
three, you forgot Italy

"but we faced two such regimes in WW2, Imperial Japan and Nazi Germany…"

Four, you forgot Russia…

Armand

So stop pretending that 1953 explains everything wrong in Iran, because that ignores what truly remade Iran: the ruthless imposition of radical Twelver Sharia.

And I would suggest that YOU stop pretending that 1953 has nothing to do with their manufactured "history".
It installed the hated Shah. Done by American Imperialism. Overthrowing the hated Shah WAS the whole point.
Every nation, including ours, has its firmly believed mythology. We actually believe in the factual accuracy of the Betsy Ross flag, and that Washington never told a lie. That's less harmful, certainly, than Iran's mythology. Which "everyone believes". (Which they are kind of forced to believe. 🤷)

It's foolish to believe that there is any practical support for the overthrow of the mullahs.

One major similarity between Iran and Vietnam is that we have absolutely no idea how to get out.
Bombastic, ever changing rhetoric will not end things.
Bomb them back to the Stone Age? Sure we can do that at any sign of recalcitrance. 👍 "Inshallah! The Infidel is promising us martyrdom!"
We simply have no idea how to deal with them. Obviously the current approach isn't working. Besides, we're running out of Stone Age Returns weapons.
Nuke them? Oh, how ironic. To prevent them from getting nukes, we nuke them. 👏👏👏

dogtail 02 Jul 2026 1:44 p.m. PST
@SB
three, you forgot Italy

No, I didn't. Italy in WW2 was not the same as its allies -- it was not as xenophobic or genocidal, it did not embrace militant fanatic death cults, and when finally able to act the kicked Mussolini out of power…and then shot him and hung him from a bridge.

"Nuke them?"

Leaving aside the moral horror of killing millions of civilians, "just nuke them" is a terrible strategic idea.

It shatters the 80-year taboo against nuclear weapons.
It encourages other countries to build, and possibly use, their own nuclear arsenals. China? Russia?
It risks escalation into a wider or even global war.
It would provoke massive international condemnation, including from allies.Rogue Nation, anyone?
It may not even eliminate Iran's nuclear capability if key facilities and expertise survive.
It would cripple the global economy through disruption of Middle Eastern oil and trade.

In trying to solve one problem, it could create a far more dangerous world for decades to come. So if genocide isn't enough to put you off this knee-jerk solution, self-interest should be.

@SB:
Italy used poison gas in ethiopia. The question if that war borders on genocide is debatable.
It always looks bad if a German compares crimes of the Third Reich with other nations, so I better stop. Btw calling the Nazis xenophobic is weird, I would choose "racist"

Btw calling the Nazis xenophobic is weird, I would choose "racist"

They were that too – but remember they believed all non "aryan" races were inferior and not to be trusted unless firmly under heel. So they allied with islamists and brought non-Germans into the SS as the Arab Legion (which also included black African soldiers) and the Bosnian Legion (Handschar SS). And at the same time had no problem slaughtering and enslaving fellow "white folks" by the tens of millions.

Italy used poison gas in ethiopia. The question if that war borders on genocide is debatable.

And yes, I am aware that Italy did that, but they didn't use WMD after that. And yes, the Italian Fascists also contributed to the Holocaust albeit on a much smaller scale with the Fascist government cooperating to ship several thousand Jews to Nazi camps and massacres in the Balkans.

BUT, the Italian populace did not support this. They were on board for feeling like their economy was turning around and the idea of being strong again, and supported the North Africa campaign – initially.

The anti-Jewish and minority laws were met with widespread apathy, confusion, and even internal resistance, as many everyday Italians did not harbor the same biological obsessions as their Nazi allies. The Catholic Church played a complex role, often supporting state anti-Jewish measures while keeping them legally distinct from German-style violent racism.

As the war progressed and deportations began, public sentiment turned. Many everyday Italian citizens, priests, and local officials actively protected and hid Jewish populations. Because of this widespread popular pushback, over 80% of Italy's Jewish population survived the Holocaust

Italian efforts to protect Jews during the Holocaust took many forms. In occupied territories such as Croatia and southern France, Italian military commanders defied German authorities and Axis puppet regimes, including the Ustaše, by refusing to participate in deportations and providing refuge for thousands of Jewish refugees, allowing local Jewish relief organizations to operate. Italian diplomats, including Giorgio Perlasca, used their official positions to issue protective documents, while ordinary citizens offered safehouses and assistance. Prominent individuals such as Gino Bartali risked their lives by smuggling forged identity papers and funds to underground rescue networks. After the German occupation of northern and central Italy in September 1943 triggered SS-led roundups, Catholic clergy and lay Catholics expanded these rescue efforts, hiding thousands of Jewish men, women, and children in convents, monasteries, churches, and private homes.

So -- Italy was not the same as Japan and Nazi Germany.

Back to the show, eh?

The Germans did refer to the Japanese as "honorary Aryans". Hey! They're tying up the Americans!

And one KKK Grand Kagglehorn did say "I don't know. Those Jews look awfully White to me!" Of course he was running for Congress st the time, and was being pragmatic about votes.

Pragmatic racists.

John many liberals in the U.S. say Jews here look awfully Zionist. How do we qualify that? Some liberals Even eating their own allies.

Subject: Dimitry Yakoushkin on X: "Scott Wiener showed up to the trans march and for the first time we kicked his ass out. It's sad because while he's written some good legislation for queers, hes ultimately a genocidal-supporting center right shill. Trigger warning: broken man walking away defeated. Vote Connie! t.co/TXIB7omxde / X


link

While others accuse Jews of eating babies

A 23-year-old Orthodox Jewish woman was hospitalized after a suspected antisemitic assault in the New York subway

After mentioning the Jews, the suspect allegedly said, "I see it and I feel it on you."

Part of the altercation was filmed by the victim. In the video, you can hear the woman shouting: "Jews eat children."

The incident then escalated. According to the police, the suspect grabbed the victim by the throat before throwing her to the ground, hitting her, and pulling out a handful of her hair.

The young woman suffered a concussion and received medical care.

"I kept telling myself: I am not in Nazi Germany," she said after the attack."

🤔
Well my dear, that might well depend on what liberal area you are near and at what time,

Subject: ‘Jews Eat Children': A Young Woman Attacked In The New York Subway – i24NEWS


link

Although far left liberals are really making it an issue, I don't believe the rise in antisemitism is just a left problem. A while back I was watching Mark Levine. He had a whole show dedicated to the massive rise in attacks on Jews in all its forms. I had not realized it had become such a big problem. I was shocked. Levine is a far-right conservative, but he did not blame the rise on liberalism. This was before the war in Gaza. Since then, I think it has grown even more worse with the far left joining in.

Right now, both the Left and Right are cannibalising themselves. Not Left eating Right, nor the other. It's themselves.
Tucker vs Trump
Democratic Socialist vs Democrat

My point was that the Klan is notoriously antisemitic. But David Duke needed their votes. The Jews he was supposed to despise, he suddenly discovered were White. I wonder how many Black votes he got? 🤔

We are living in interesting times.

Anyway, I have to get the 2nd Continental Light Dragoons painted, an Austrian Cuirassier regiment, and random Comanche "cavalry".
And for Music, I have an hour long video of The Earls of Leicester. Shawn sounds amazingly like Lester! Black Eyed Susie! Hey! Ho!

Grattan people want to believe that, but it has changed. They try to disguise their anti-Jewish bias with other names. But it still has all the hallmarks of all Jewish hate throughout history.

Nothing below this line are my views. All via web research through many sites and AI.

There is analysis and even a short lists of examples. There are many more examples. One could fill a page on what happened at the college "anti Israel/anti zionists protests". Go look at the core beliefs of many of the new "democratic socialist". Some would make Hitler proud.

Heard about "Jew Tag"?
———

Global trackers, such as the Combat Antisemitism Movement (CAM), indicate a dramatic shift, attributing over 68% of tracked global incidents in recent years to far-left ideology. This shift is primarily driven by massive waves of anti-Zionist activism, which frequently cross the line into antisemitic harassment and institutional blockades.

The heavy concentration of left-wing anti-Israel campus protests across the East Coast—and the country—is a highly visible reality that has fundamentally transformed how antisemitism is experienced today. For many students and Jewish communities, the most immediate, daily threat over the last two years has come from progressive or radical-left activism. [1, 2]

The short answer is we don't—and in fact, data shows that most street-level assaults on Orthodox Jews are not carried out by right-wing ideological extremists.
The previous distinction was between geopolitical (left-wing/anti-Israel) campus protests and localized (street-level) physical violence. However, attributing those street assaults to "right-wing individuals" is factually incorrect and misrepresents the nature of that violence.
The data regarding these individual assaults clarifies how researchers categorize them:

What the Data Actually Shows About Street Assaults
When looking closely at the epicenter of physical antisemitic violence in the United States—such as Brooklyn, New York, where the ADL reported a 56% surge in physical assaults targeting visibly Orthodox Jews—the perpetrators are almost never affiliated with organized right-wing or white supremacist groups. [1]
A comprehensive study by Americans Against Antisemitism analyzing years of documented physical assaults against Orthodox Jews in New York City revealed: [1]
* Demographics: The vast majority of perpetrators were local teenagers or young adults from other minority communities living in the same urban neighborhoods. [1]
* Motivation: These attacks are rarely driven by formal political ideologies (left or right). Instead, they are fueled by long-simmering localized friction, neighborhood tensions, and classic antisemitic conspiracy theories regarding housing, money, or race. [1, 2, 3, 4]
Because Orthodox Jews are highly visible due to their traditional clothing, they are targeted simply for being Jewish by angry or unhinged individuals, completely independent of national politics. [1, 2]

Yes, when looking specifically at physical assaults and daily harassment, the vast majority are not carried out by right-wing extremists.
The data from major tracking organizations clarifies how antisemitic incidents break down by ideology:
* Street-Level Assaults: The physical violence targeting visibly Orthodox Jews on city streets is rarely tied to right-wing or white supremacist ideology. Studies show these are almost entirely carried out by unaffiliated local individuals driven by neighborhood friction and raw prejudice.
* Campus and Public Harassment: The overwhelming majority of organized harassment, blockades, and institutional intimidation over the last two years has originated from radical left-wing and anti-Zionist coalitions.
* The Right-Wing Share: Organized right-wing extremists account for a very small percentage of physical attacks. Their activity is heavily concentrated in online harassment, conspiracy theory propaganda, and occasional vandalism using neo-Nazi symbols. [1, 2]

—-

Anti-Jewish statements on the political left often manifest through the weaponization of traditional prejudice under the guise of anti-Zionism or anti-Israel sentiment. By substituting "Zionist" or "Israeli" for "Jew," these frameworks reintroduce harmful stereotypes about Jewish power, loyalty, and financial control into modern progressive discourse. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
Key manifestations of this rhetoric include:
* Rebranding Blood Libels and Conspiracies: Classic antisemitic tropes, such as "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion," are recycled into criticisms of "Zionist influence". These narratives assert that a shadowy, powerful cabal of Jewish individuals controls global financial systems, foreign policy, and the media. [1, 2, 3, 4]
* Weaponizing the Holocaust: A common tactic involves "Holocaust inversion," where the State of Israel or Zionists are accused of behaving exactly like Nazis. This is frequently used to inflict deep emotional pain on the Jewish community and degrade the historical trauma of the Holocaust. [1, 2]
* Demanding Loyalty Pasts and Tests: Jewish individuals in progressive and academic spaces are routinely singled out and asked to pass purity tests by explicitly denouncing Israel, thereby linking their cultural identity to the actions of a foreign state. [1, 2]
* Economic Tropes and Class Reductionism: On discussion forums, users point out that left-wing antisemitism often frames Jews as inherently economically privileged, class-adjacent to oppressors, or tied to "globalism". This view erases the historical marginalization of Jews and prevents Jewish suffering from being recognized as systemic or valid. [1]
* The "De-Jewing" and Exclusion of Mizrahim: Progressive spaces have been noted to apply highly specific racialized tropes—such as categorizing all Israeli Jews as white, European colonizers—which erases the lived reality of Mizrahi Jews who are indigenous to the Middle East and North Africa. []
* Banning Jewish Symbols: Left-wing movements have occasionally banned or restricted recognizable Jewish symbols (like the Star of David) at progressive events, actively excluding Jews unless they conform to narrow ideological definitions. []

Fatalities and Severe Violent Assaults
* The Capital Jewish Museum Shooting (May 21, 2025): A shooter with active ties to left-wing socialist, anti-war, and anti-racist organizations opened fire outside the Capital Jewish Museum in Washington, D.C.. The attacker, who shouted "Free, free Palestine!" during the assault, murdered a young Jewish couple, Sarah Milgrim and Yaron Lischinsky. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
* The Boulder Firebombing (June 1, 2025): An individual driven by pro-Hamas and radical left-wing narratives targeted a peaceful demonstration in Boulder, Colorado, that was advocating for the release of hostages held in Gaza. The attacker utilized Molotov cocktails and a flamethrower, severely burning several attendees, which resulted in the death of 82-year-old Holocaust survivor Karen Diamond. [1, 2, 3]
* The Pennsylvania Governor's Residence Arson (2025): During Passover, an arson attack targeted the residence of Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro (who is Jewish) while his family was inside, an incident linked to radical anti-Zionist extremism. [1, 2]

Institutional Harassment and Physical Blockades
* The Baruch College Kosher Restaurant Siege (September 2024): Members of the campus group Students for Justice in Palestine (SJP) surrounded a local kosher restaurant where a Jewish freshman welcome event was being held. Protesters blocked the entrance, aggressively harassed students, chanted "Baruch Hillel go to hell," and taunted the students regarding hostages executed in Gaza. [1]
* Campus Encampment Blockades and Assaults (Spring 2024): At universities including UCLA, Columbia, and UC Berkeley, autonomous left-wing student coalitions established unauthorized "zones." Jewish students wearing yarmulkes or carrying Israeli symbols were blocked from accessing university property, physically shoved, or explicitly told they were not permitted to enter unless they denounced Zionism. [1, 2]
* The Cooper Union Library Siege (October 2023): Left-wing anti-Israel protesters pushed past barricades into a campus building and aggressively pounded on the glass doors of the library where Jewish students had locked themselves inside for safety, requiring security intervention to extract them.[1, 2, 3, 4]

Targeted Vandalism and Defacement [1]
* Synagogue and Community Center Defacement: Left-wing activist groups frequently target mainstream Jewish religious centers under the banner of geopolitical protest. This includes the spray-painting of red inverted triangles (a symbol utilized by Hamas militants) onto synagogues, Jewish community centers (JCCs), and the doorsteps of Jewish organizational leaders. [1]
* The Cancer Center Protests (January 2024): Left-wing anti-war groups marched on the Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center in New York City, targeting it specifically because of a major financial donation from a prominent Jewish philanthropist, screaming at patients through the windows that the hospital supported "genocide."

The phrase "jew tag game in colorado" refers to recent reports of antisemitic bullying at Southern Hills Middle School in the Boulder Valley School District. The Anti-Defamation League filed a federal civil rights complaint after students organized the game, during which they chased a Jewish classmate, used slurs, and called Jewish people "dirty" and "contaminated". [1]

Incident Breakdown
According to Civil rights complaint alleges Boulder middle-schooler endured two years of antisemitic harassment, the complaint—filed with the U.S. Department of Education's Office for Civil Rights under Title VI of the Civil Rights Act—alleges the following: [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
* The Tag Game: In April 2025, classmates in a P.E. class attempted to play "Jew touch tag," explicitly targeting the student for his Jewish identity. [1, 2]
* Physical Assault: In December 2025, another student allegedly fashioned a Chromebook charging cord into a lasso, wrapped it around the victim's neck, and dragged him backward from his chair while using an antisemitic slur. [1]
* Escalation: The severe and pervasive pattern of bullying caused the student to stop wearing his Star of David necklace and share his religious identity. [1]

Leaving aside the moral horror of killing millions of civilians, "just nuke them" is a terrible strategic idea.

That is why we don't use them …

Back to the real enemy of all "non believers"

Translation: oh please Israel and maybe the U.S.! Please don't take this opportunity to kill more of our leaders, soldiers and supporters! Even the melted son of "A" (Ayatollah).

…..

"Iran sent a warning Thursday to the United States and Israel as it prepares for the funeral of Iranian Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, Reuters reported.

"We warn the enemies of Iran, especially the U.S. and the Zionist regime (Israel), to avoid any miscalculation and to think about the harsh retaliation our armed forces would make to any threat and aggression against our country," Ali Abdollahi, commander of Khatam al-Anbiya Central Headquarters, said in a statement carried by state media.

Funeral processions for Khamenei began Friday in Tehran and willl end July 9 with his burial in his hometown of Mashhad. Additional ceremonies are planned in Qom and Iraq between those dates.

The head of Iran's Civil Aviation Organization also said that temporary airspace restrictions would be in place over several cities, including Tehran and Mashhad."

OVI +1

The islamists love to make threats and saber rattle… But as we know they have lost most of their assets. Thanks to the USA and IDF.

And the IDF still will takeout any of their remaining leadership if they want to. Or raise their head from their hole. Then their heads and the rest of their body parts will got to paradise. Which is going to be a lot hotter than they though it would be.

I doubt the new Ayatollah will be seen in public/in the open… ever. Save for his remains at his funeral …

link

You are also assuming that the Iranians have not figured out how Mossad did the deed in wiping out all the old fossils.

Anyone who is optimistic is just plain delusional.

John even average Fattah knows the reality:

"Iran's leaders are selling the ceasefire as a victory over a superpower — a pause in the war that could unlock major economic benefits under a deal with Washington.

But among the mourners gathered in public displays of loyalty, the mood was not all defiance.

"The United States," mourner Fattah Bayaz, 63, told Reuters, "wants certain things. We should give some things, otherwise they blow up our officials in the air."

That blunt fear cuts through Tehran's official narrative. The government is projecting unity, strength and triumph, but ordinary Iranians know the cost of escalation could be devastating.

Reuters contributed to this report."

What I took from the "funeral" were the chants of revenge and hatred of the US. So, anything thinks this war has got the leadership in Iran to rethink their approach to the US and Israel and especially their sponsoring of terrorism is sadly mistaken. This war has only intensified the hate without any major positives for the US.

Grattan

Really, what did you expect to hear at these funerals?! Rah Rah USA! Hurrah Israel!!???

Who was attending? Anti government Iranians? 🙄

Do you believe there were armed police, guard and undercover secret police, just looking for anyone to shout opposition?

This assumption that we are generating more hate is sad. They hated us to begin with. They need nothing to increase hate…. It is in their writings. They are even preaching it in some areas of the U.S.

THEY HAVE been TRYING and SUCCEEDING in KILLING us, since 79! How much more evidence does one need!

Hate for us is in all the writings of the regime and the fundamental beliefs of their radicalized version of their religion .

Should we just get on our knees and say shoot us, and hope they might somehow miss someone we care about? Go quietly to the gas chambers?

Their hate of Israel is worse than the U.S.

Anyone who is optimistic is just plain delusional.

I doubt the Mossad, IDF, etc. are delusional. They are much more pragmatic … their lives depend on it. As well as the Israelis a more than a one trick pony … They are very good at adapting, improvising, overcoming, etc. many obstacles and situations.

Now that does not mean Iran's leaders are not cunning, capable, etc. However, based on the past. The Israelis are the better and much more winning team.

And me delusional ? No that can't be true. The VA says I'm fine …

35th,

True, but that doesn't change the fact that the people who matter in Iran DO want revenge. DO still hate the US and this war has not changed this nor Iran's ability to attack Americans.

Grattan it's debatable exactly what abilities Iran has left to use. We know whatever they had, has been decreased, (including leadership), since the beginning of this conflict. We know their proxies have been diminished since the beginning of this conflict, due to their limited response, except for Hezbollah (who Israel had been diminishing, just like the animals of Hamas).
We know their Air Force can do nothing, because they are not there. Same with their large ships and subs.. gone.

So they may and probably will still try, but the cards in their deck are much depleted.

Where as before…. They had EVERY card in their deck.

What cards have we and Israel used? Air Force, support ships and bombs and missiles. No ground troops, armor or much of anything else. Israel in Iran.. less.

I'm just sad that Israel and the U.S. have been missing a wonderful opportunity to eliminate so many of the regimes supporters and "some" leadership at these "funerals". We would be sure that anyone killed there, are regime supporters (the media has told us so), so no matter the gender or age, legitimate targets. Either future or current terrorists and religious fanatics.

Right? 😏

"that doesn't change the fact that the people who matter in Iran DO want revenge. DO still hate the US and this war has not changed this nor Iran's ability to attack Americans."

I think you've stopped too far. The ill-conceived and poorly executed war against Iran certainly hasn't diminished the regime's desire for revenge. If anything, it's given Tehran an even greater incentive to seek retribution against the United States.

Iran International

"1 hour ago
UK tightens political funding rules over Russia, China and Iran influence

Britain says Iran, Russia and China are among foreign states attempting to influence and undermine its democracy, as the government announced tighter rules on overseas political donations.

The measures follow a review into foreign financial interference in politics, launched after a former Reform UK politician was jailed last year for accepting bribes to make pro-Russia speeches and statements.

The review found the UK faced a persistent threat from foreign interference, prompting the government to introduce stricter rules on political donations.

Housing Minister Steve Reed said the changes were aimed at preventing "dodgy funding" from influencing British elections."

I agree Ochoin. It has made it more of an issue.

🫨

And what were they before?

"Hostage Crises and Embassy Attacks
* The Iran Hostage Crisis (1979–1981): Iranian students, with the backing of the regime, stormed the U.S. Embassy in Tehran, holding 52 Americans hostage for 444 days. [1, 2, 3]

* U.S. Embassy Bombing in Beirut (1983): The Iran-backed group Islamic Jihad carried out a suicide truck bombing at the embassy in Lebanon, killing 17 Americans. [1]

* U.S. Embassy Annex Bombing (1984): Another Hezbollah-linked suicide car bombing targeted the embassy annex in East Beirut, killing two Americans. [1, 2, 3]

Mass-Casualty Military Bombings

* Beirut Barracks Bombing (1983): An Iran-backed suicide bomber drove a truck into the U.S. Marine barracks in Lebanon, killing 241 American military personnel, marking one of the deadliest single-day losses for the U.S. military since World War II. [1, 2]

* Khobar Towers Bombing (1996): Saudi Hezbollah, backed by Iran, bombed a military housing complex in Saudi Arabia, killing 19 U.S. Air Force personnel.

The Iraq War and Asymmetric Warfare (2003–2011)

* Improvised Explosive Devices (IEDs): The U.S. Department of Defense confirmed that the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) Quds Force smuggled advanced, armor-piercing explosively formed penetrators (EFPs) into Iraq. These weapons killed over 600 U.S. service members. [1]

* Karbala Provincial Joint Coordination Center Raid (2007): Iran-backed militants disguised themselves as U.S. officials, infiltrated a joint base, and captured and executed five American soldiers.

Post-2020 Drone and Missile Eras

* Al-Asad Airbase Strikes (2020): Following the U.S. elimination of Qasem Soleimani, Iran launched a barrage of ballistic missiles at U.S. troops in Iraq, causing traumatic brain injuries to over 100 American service members. [1, 2, 3]

* Tower 22 Attack (2024): The Iran-backed militia Kataib Hezbollah launched a one-way drone strike against a U.S. logistics base in Jordan, killing 3 U.S. soldiers and wounding more than 40 others. []

* Red Sea and Gulf Escalations (2023–2026): Iran-backed Houthi rebels repeatedly targeted U.S. naval vessels and commercial shipping lanes in the Red Sea with anti-ship ballistic missiles and drones. [1, 2]

Homeland Plots and Cyber Warfare

* Assassination Plots against U.S. Officials: U.S. intelligence disrupted multiple IRGC-backed plots targeting American citizens, including attempts to assassinate former National Security Advisor John Bolton and efforts to target President Donald Trump.

* Masih Alinejad Kidnapping Plot (2021): The FBI disrupted an Iranian intelligence network attempting to kidnap an Iranian-American journalist and dissident from her home in Brooklyn, New York.

* Cyber Infrastructure Attacks: State-sponsored Iranian hacking groups (such as Rocket Kitten and MuddyWater) have routinely targeted U.S. government systems, municipal water grids, and critical hospital networks with ransomware and disruptive cyber campaigns. [, 2, 3, 4]

U.S. federal authorities have disrupted dozens of Iranian-directed terror plots on American soil, focusing heavily on a transnational campaign to assassinate U.S. political figures, military leaders, and domestic dissidents. [1, 2, 3]
The U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) and the FBI have unsealed criminal indictments detailing specific, high-profile foiled operations orchestrated by the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC). [1]

Assassination Plots Targeting U.S. Government Officials

* The Donald Trump Assassination Plot (2024): The U.S. Department of Justice charged Farhad Shakeri, an IRGC asset, for planning the assassination of Donald Trump. Shakeri was explicitly directed by Iranian operatives to formulate a plan to surveil and assassinate Trump. Shakeri utilized a criminal network of local hitmen, including Carlisle Rivera and Jonathon Loadholt, who were arrested before they could act. [1, 2, 3]
* The Asif Merchant Political Plot (2024–2026): Pakistani national Asif Merchant, an operative trained by the IRGC, was arrested in July 2024 and formally convicted by a federal jury in March 2026. Merchant traveled to the U.S. to scout targets, steal data, and recruit hitmen—who turned out to be undercover U.S. law enforcement officers—to assassinate a prominent U.S. politician or government official. [1, 2]
* The John Bolton Murder-for-Hire Plot (2022): The DOJ charged Shahram Poursafi, a member of the IRGC, for attempting to pay an individual in the United States $300,000 USD to assassinate former National Security Advisor John Bolton. The plot was intended as a retaliation campaign for the 2020 elimination of Qasem Soleimani. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

Transnational Repression Against Dissidents
* The Masih Alinejad Assassination and Kidnapping Plots (2021–2024): Iranian intelligence network operatives repeatedly targeted prominent Iranian-American journalist Masih Alinejad in her Brooklyn, New York home.
* In 2021, the FBI foiled a plot to kidnap Alinejad via speedboats to take her to Venezuela and eventually Iran.
* In 2023 and 2024, the DOJ charged members of an Eastern European criminal organization, including Khalid Mehdiyev and Rafat Amirov, who were hired by an IRGC Brigadier General to execute her with a rifle outside her residence. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

Historic and Proxy Conspiracies
* The Saudi Ambassador Assassination Plot (2011): In one of the most audacious foiled plots on U.S. soil, federal authorities arrested Manssor Arbabsiar, a naturalized U.S.-Iranian citizen. Working directly with the IRGC Quds Force, Arbabsiar attempted to hire members of a Mexican drug cartel (Los Zetas) for $1.5 USD million to detonate a bomb at a popular Washington, D.C. restaurant to assassinate Adel al-Jubeir, the Saudi Arabian Ambassador to the United States. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
* The New York City Sleeper Cell Reconnaissance (2017–2019): The FBI arrested embedded Hezbollah external operations operatives Ali Kourani and Alexei Saab. Both had spent years compiling detailed tactical reconnaissance and structural vulnerability assessments on high-value targets, including JFK International Airport, the Empire State Building, and the Washington Monument, to prepare for a mass-casualty strike if ordered by Iran and Hezbollah. [1, 2]"

But I guess some have been lucky enough not to lose someone to:

"these gentle and peace loving religious fanatics!"

Congratulations! Give them time.

Mine wasn't so lucky.

They deserve every bomb they get.

I've said before and early on, this is personal. It should have happened at the very beginning in 1979!

Only a fool would say winning wasn't important – having objectives and achieving them. Wiser heads also know the terms of the peace are even more important.

The US hasn't achieved the first & given the MoU, won't achieve anything with the second. If the outcome of a war has been to intensify animosity, you have not done well no matter what spin is put on it.