"Russian Economy in Serious Trouble" Topic

Falling global oil prices are choking Moscow's war chest, while Ukrainian long-range drones systematically hammer Russian energy and logistics. link

For years, Putin promised that Crimea was an untouchable fortress—now, the occupied peninsula is facing its worst fuel crisis in modern history, with authorities forced to completely halt gas sales to the public link

Map of Russian fuel shortages link

While the Bank of Russia claims inflation is at a manageable 5.6%, Swedish intelligence estimates real inflation in Russia is likely hovering around 15%, and bankruptcies among small businesses are skyrocketing. link

Analysts at TS Lombard, a division of GlobalData, note that we might be looking at an endgame within the next 12 months. Either Russia spends another year grinding out a few kilometers in Donbas at a catastrophic cost, or continued Ukrainian drone strikes on Russian logistics will force Moscow into a ceasefire that fails every single one of its territorial goals.

They've been singing the same song for five years now)))

You are right, Putin and his talking heads certainly have

It will not be long before the Chinese hoard armies cross over!
What will the West do?

hey Cuprum2, how is your holiday on crimea going?

One can only hope this is true.
Pray it will then help bring the war to an end.

Unfortunately… history shows us that Russians lack a sense of reality and practicality… they only know how to display brute force, even or especially among themselves.

Good question about vacationing in occupied Crimea… it seems missiles will soon be visiting Siberia as well…

Anyone can see that economic conditions are not the same as they were 5 years ago… except a Russian.

Armand

Sechin, the head of Roseneft ( leading Russian oil company) described the Ukrainian damage to Russian oil infrastructure as "unprecedented". Russian oil is selling at $50 USD per barrel post the US-Iran MOU. Civilian sales of gas in Crimea are not allowed and food is rationed. Air defense units are being withdrawn from the front lines to provide better defense for Moscow. The US Administration believes Ukraine has the upper hand in the conflict and is acting accordingly.

JMcCarroll, well… I guess we'll have to greet them with flowers… It's better to fight the enemy as part of the Chinese army against a common enemy. Although I see no reason for China to do that while Russia is resisting.

dogtail, I've never been to Crimea. I don't like the heat. I like the mountains and skiing.
There are plenty of places in Russia where you can have a good rest)))
link

Tango01, Siberia and the Far East will most likely be attacked. If that indecisive oligarch stooge remains in power… But that's not important. The enemy must be defeated. No matter the cost.

McKinstry, yes, that's mostly true. But these are temporary problems. A way to suppress Starlink has been found, which means Ukraine will soon have serious problems launching medium- and long-range strikes. The system isn't perfect yet, but it will definitely be perfected soon. And then Ukraine will lose its main advantage in the war.
link

Ukraine's DESPERATE Attempt to Force Peace on Russia:

link

@Cuprum2:
Did you actually see the video? Or did you just see the clickbait title?
We are informed that the governour of crimea stopped the selling of gasoline, and the guy who is making this video mumbles some numbers of how many trucks are hit.
So bottom line:
Logistic failures on the russian side.

So what? I remember the Ukrainian offensive of 2023—how much rapturous anticipation there was… I remember Ukraine's attack on Kursk.
The pendulum will soon swing back…

yeah, but we are not talking about territorial gains, but about logistics. And even every armchair general knows that logistics win wars. And if Russia is not able to provide its own citizen with gasoline and has to stop exporting refined oil, the writing is on the wall. You cannot defeat Russias army in the field, but you can tighten up the money supply lines.
Ukraines seem to be as stubborn as Russians, and when you remember what happened in Butcha and if you look at the treatment of POWs by the Russians, you know this is a war that the Ukraines simply refuse to lose. And rightly so.

Bucha again, more torture of prisoners… Aren't you tired of quoting Ukrainian propaganda?)))
Yes, soldiers from Nazi battalions (they are easily recognized by their tattoos) are being beaten. Because they simply kill captured Russian soldiers… They should thank God they don't shoot them on the spot.

We are already working on protecting logistics. Overcoming this challenge will take some time.

United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights wrote a report about the killings
PDF link

you can close your eyes and start humming, but that does not change the truth

Yes. And they write that these murders are carried out by both sides… So for some reason you only see one half of the problem)))

side six
"27. As of 31 October 2022, OHCHR had documented 441 killings of civilians (341
men, 72 women, 20 boys and 8 girls) that occurred between 24 February and 6
April 2022 in 102 towns and villages of Kyiv, Chernihiv, and Sumy regions. All were attributable to Russian forces."

Russia invaded Ukraine. Not the other way around. All the death and the pain because Putin ordered the invasion.

From 2014 to 2021, the UN recorded a total of 3,404 civilian deaths (2,999 of which occurred during the first two years of the conflict). Of these, 286 were children in the DPR and LPR territories.
Why weren't you concerned about eight years of artillery shelling of cities? Or are the fates of Russian-speaking people simply of no interest to you?

The city of Snizhne (Donetsk People's Republic). A child is pulled from the rubble of a residential building bombed by Ukrainian aircraft. 2014.
The rest of the world doesn't care – simply because this child is Russian.
link
All these deaths and suffering are because the West directly supported and paid for the unconstitutional coup in Ukraine.

The "unconstitutional coup of 2014" was the result of the protest of Ukrainians against their government which stopped trying to intensify relations with the EU. People were sick of corruption and brutality against demonstraters.
Russia send troops into Donesk and Lublanks (Russian soldiers on vacacion, as Putin said to Merkel). Because of Russia a Civil war started there. If you start a war, children and other civilians will die. The nationality of a dead civilian does not matter. It is a crime against humanity. But collateral damage is something different from massacrers on civilians. Those are crimes even in russian military jurisdiction.

Has anyone seen the movie "The Wizard of the Kremlin"?… a good explanation of how Putin and his henchmen handled the Ukraine issue…

Armand

Dogtail, this was a protest by a portion of Ukrainians. The other portion didn't want to join the EU. Are you aware that the Anti-Maidan protests were taking place in Kyiv at the same time as the Maidan? And that those who participated in them were subsequently attacked, subjected to mass beatings, and even murder?
I admit that you're not a supporter of democracy and despise all democratic procedures. All these elections, debates, votes, and referendums seem like a pointless game to you. Or that you believe democracy is only suitable for the superior race, while sub-Menschees don't know how to properly use democratic procedures. But let me remind you that the Ukrainian president had only a year left before the elections…
It's no secret that Maidan protesters were paid 500 hryvnias a day (Professor Mearsheimer, for example, who personally witnessed this on the Maidan, says this). That's a lot of money. Who paid for this "banquet"? And aren't the speeches on the Maidan by Western ambassadors and parliamentary representatives, publicly supporting the rebels, interference in Ukraine's internal affairs? Isn't Russia and China allowed to do the same in the event of unrest in Western countries? Isn't this normal practice for the West? Am I right?
The war didn't start because of Russia – it started because of a Western-inspired coup. We shouldn't put the cart before the horse.

Here are the citizens of eastern Ukraine greeting Nazi battalions, armed by the rebels who came to power, on their streets. Where are the Russian "vacationers"? They came later – to protect the unarmed…

link

link

Nazis beating Anti-Maidan supporters who were returning home to Crimea:

link

As usual, Cuprum is misrepresenting the facts and instead of checking all sources is only using those that support the propaganda of the Russian state.

Per EuvsDisinfo: While a vast majority of the 2013-2014 Euromaidan protesters in Ukraine were unpaid, grassroots demonstrators, there were widespread, documented reports and arrests of individuals being paid to participate in pro-government, anti-Maidan rallies. Evidence and consensus regarding payments on both sides include: The Euromaidan Protestors: Independent investigations and human rights groups determined that the hundreds of thousands of people who filled Kyiv's Independence Square were largely organic, unpaid volunteers protesting against government corruption and demanding closer European integration. The movement was driven by students, civic activists, and citizens from across Ukraine.

The Anti-Maidan Rallies: Conversely, the pro-government "Anti-Maidan" rallies, organized by the Party of Regions, frequently used paid participants and "rented crowds". Demonstrators on the government payroll admitted to accepting daily stipends, while recruiters were arrested by Ukrainian authorities for paying people to occupy government buildings or disrupt protests.

Once again Cuprum plays the disproved "Nazi" card. Per Russia Matters, BBC, and the Nation: The premise for the "Nazi battalions" is historically inaccurate. Volunteer battalions with far-right or neo-Nazi elements (such as the Azov Battalion) were not armed by "Ukrainian rebels". Instead, they were formed by Ukrainian citizens and far-right activists specifically to fight the pro-Russian separatists (rebels) in the eastern Donbas region.

How they were armed and formed: Defending the Government: Following the 2014 Euromaidan revolution and the ousting of Viktor Yanukovych, the newly installed Ukrainian government took power. Facing a heavily armed separatist uprising in the east, Kyiv found its regular military to be severely degraded by corruption. State and Oligarch Funding: To fill this defensive gap, the Ukrainian Interior Ministry (under the new government) and wealthy oligarchs (such as the billionaire Serhiy Taruta and Igor Kolomoisky) officially armed and funded these volunteer paramilitary units. Integration: By late 2014, the central government absorbed many of these volunteer units—including the Azov Battalion—into the official state structures, such as the National Guard of Ukraine.

It is true that anti-Maidan supporters were attacked in Crimea. However, per Al Mayadeen English, Research Gate, and other: In February 2014, anti-Maidan supporters and pro-Russian activists returning to Crimea from Kyiv were ambushed and beaten by Euromaidan activists. However, historical and geopolitical records do not classify these attackers as "Nazi battalions".The incident and the nature of the attackers are detailed below: The Incident: On February 20–21, 2014, eight buses carrying an estimated 300 anti-Maidan protesters returning to the Crimean Peninsula were intercepted near the town of Korsun-Shevchenkovsky. The Violence: Euromaidan vigilantes forced the passengers off the buses, violently assaulted them, and burned the vehicles. Russian sources claim several passengers were killed and others went missing, while Ukrainian sources acknowledge the beatings and bus burning but deny fatalities occurred. The Attackers: The interceptors were broadly referred to as Euromaidan self-defense units and local anti-government protesters. While far right and ultra-nationalist groups (such as Right Sector and others) were active in the wider Euromaidan movement, political scientists and monitors do not classify these groups as "Nazi battalions". Broader Context: The official name "battalions" (e.g., Azov, Donbas, Dnepr) refers to volunteer military units that were established later in the spring of 2014 to fight in the Donbas conflict, and they were not the civilian vigilantes involved in the Korsun incident.

Returning to the subject of the original post: Putin plans on cutting sales of fuel to foreign nations which will further reduce Russians income. YouTube link

Thanks

Armand

williamb +1

William, how can a new government be formed if no one elected it? People in eastern Ukraine elected Yanukovych in a legitimate presidential election. He was a president from their region. Meanwhile, in Kyiv, impostors seized power, to whom no one was obligated to submit. But these impostors wanted to subjugate dissent by force of arms… People in eastern Ukraine had every right to resist. Their rights were cynically violated.

How the Nazis staged a coup in Ukraine and brought politicians affiliated with them to power. The shooting of protesters and police:

link

Cuprum, new governments are often formed without elections. The United States was formed after the colonies revolted against the British government.

The website you linked to is noted for conspiracy theories, conjecture and is believed to be linked to Russian state media link

The following is sourced from the BBC and a summary of events on Wikipedia.

Former Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych was removed from office in February 2014 after months of massive street protests, known as the Euromaidan or Revolution of Dignity. The unrest escalated to deadly violence when government forces killed around 100 protesters, prompting Yanukovych to secretly abandon his post and flee to Russia.

His ousting stemmed from a combination of political decisions, widespread corruption, and state violence: EU Trade Deal Rejection: The protests originally sparked in November 2013 when Yanukovych abruptly refused to sign a long-planned political and free-trade agreement with the European Union, opting instead for closer economic ties with Russia.

Systemic Corruption: Demonstrators widely condemned Yanukovych and his inner circle for cronyism, massive state embezzlement, and abuse of power. (When citizens stormed his Mezhyhirya estate in 2014, they uncovered a symbol of extreme opulence funded by public money). Police Brutality and Repressive Laws: Public anger intensified when his administration pushed through anti-protest laws and violently cracked down on demonstrators, which led to mass arrests, injuries, and a hardening of the protest movement.

The "Heavenly Hundred" Massacres: The crisis peaked on February 18–20, 2014, when uniformed snipers and security forces opened fire on demonstrators in Kyiv's Independence Square, resulting in the deadliest days of violence in modern Ukrainian history.

Abandoning his Duties: Although Yanukovych and opposition leaders signed an EU-brokered peace deal on February 21 to end the bloodshed, he secretly fled the capital that same evening. Following his abrupt departure, Ukraine's parliament (the Verkhovna Rada) voted overwhelmingly on February 22, 2014, to remove him from office. The legislature officially cited that he had "withdrawn from his constitutional duties" and that circumstances of extreme urgency necessitated immediate action.

You need to stick to the original subject of threads that are posted. Hijacking discussions to post something not related to the original post is considered rude on most forums and discussion groups. This thread is about the failing Russian economy. Not the past Ukrainian elections, Nazis, and similar. You are more than welcome to create a new forum discussion about the Ukrainian election, rebellion, etc, but you should not keep posting items unrelated to the original subject of a discussion.

It doesn't matter which website published the official investigation. Other Western sources simply won't go against the mainstream, as that would only lead to trouble.
In the investigation linked to by me, each claim is backed by verified sources. Moreover, these sources were officially collected and followed all necessary legal procedures. So far, no one has proven that this investigation is biased in any way.

Wikipedia? Are you serious?

williamb + 3

Armand

williamb, will this source suit you?
link

The Maidan Massacre Trial and Investigation Revelations: Implications for the Ukraine-Russia War and Relations
link

Russia's economy is ‘sputtering,' and Putin's wartime spending model has pushed the country to an ‘economic, political, and military abyss'

"…Russia's economy has become dominated by the war effort, with the country's industrial and technological base increasingly dedicated to serving needs on the front lines. But now, with the Russian army running into a standstill in Ukraine and military costs mounting, Putin's economy stands at a crossroads, according to a research brief published Wednesday by the Center for Strategic and International Studies, a think tank in Washington D.C.

"Everyday Russians are suffering from a sputtering economy," the CSIS researchers wrote. "Russia's economy is in distress, and Russia's wartime spending may be increasingly untenable. The moment is ripe for a pressure campaign that pushes the Russian economy toward exhaustion."

The report first compiled the numbers detailing Russia's battlefield losses. Since the war began, as many as 450,000 Russians have died and 1.4 million have been injured, a pace of loss that now likely exceeds Russia's monthly recruitment, and has recently come with negligible benefits. After advancing deeper into Ukraine last year, Russian forces have moved at rates as slow as 50 to 90 meters a day in 2026, a pace that ranks among the slowest advancements of any war in the past century. (During World War II, offensives such as the Soviet Union's incursion towards Leningrad or Kursk yielded advancements of several kilometers a day. During World War I, the Battle of the Somme fought in northern France—often considered one of recent military history's deadliest conflicts—saw offensives moving around 80 meters a day on average)…"

link

Armand

Start applying pressure))) It's time. The war is in its fifth year, and economic difficulties have emerged in Russia))) Wow!)))
Otto von Bismarck: "Russia is dangerous because of the meagerness of its needs."

Cuprum, the Brill document is well researched regarding the massacre. The perpetrators being associated with far-right groups. However, the article then also states "This does not absolve Russia of direct responsibility for its illegal invasion, military interventions, and annexations in Ukraine and human and economic toll of the Ukraine-Russia war."

As has been noted many times before, the "Nazi" excuse for invading Ukraine was an overstated claim by Putin used to justify the invasion of Ukraine. Ukraine has a much smaller percentage of Nazis than other western European countries. Russia on the other hand has a much larger Nazi problem.

link

Russia has also used Nazis in Ukraine and Syria

link

If you are so concerned about Nazis, maybe should look at fixing the problem in Russia, instead of advocating for the invasion of another country.

William, did you read this article yourself?))) It talks about marginal Nazi groups that were defeated by the end of the 2010s… The remaining Nazis who weren't imprisoned either ceased their activities or emigrated (they now form the core of the Russian Volunteer Corps in Ukraine—which is natural). Yes, some Russian politicians have a radical past (just as many European politicians have a Nazi or communist past)—but that's a distant past. There are no officially or legally operating Nazi organizations in Russia. Are there Nazis among Russian volunteers and mercenaries? Possibly. Are you suggesting punishing people for dissent? On what basis can they be brought to trial if they aren't engaged in propaganda of their ideas or creating paramilitary camps to indoctrinate young people in the Nazi spirit? And even more so, in Russia, they don't create army corps of tens of thousands of Nazis, as they do in Ukraine. By the way, do you know why Poland fell out with Ukraine? It's precisely because Ukraine glorifies the Nazis who participated in the massacre of Poles during World War II… The Nazis are Ukraine's new heroes.

Russia had many reasons for attacking Ukraine. All of them were outlined in the "Putin Ultimatum" published before the war. And all of these reasons are valid. And the most important of them is ensuring Russia's security. Preventing the emergence of a powerful Nazi state on Russia's borders is one of them.

Fun fact: you can argue that Russia is a fascist country itself.
link

An excellent article, written in accordance with all the precepts of Dr. Goebbels)))

Putin is truly captivated by Ilyin. And Ilyin truly sympathized with Mussolini. But Ilyin preaches pseudo-monarchy, not fascism… And one of the scholars directly points this out in this article: "Russia does not meet the criteria of a fascist state: there is no ideological party, no hysterical personality cult, and no new revolutionary regime opposed to the old."
Russia has no formal ideology. It simply doesn't exist. There are no institutions for instilling such an ideology. There is no party program. There is no program for educating the youth in a specific ideology. Without this, there is no fascism.
In the article, the author simply tries to force randomly selected facts into the result he wants to achieve.

Caprum I've been staying out of these, but you aren't saying the Soviets (headed obviously by Russia) did not treat the Poles any better… right?

"By the way, do you know why Poland fell out with Ukraine? It's precisely because Ukraine glorifies the Nazis who participated in the massacre of Poles during World War II… The Nazis are Ukraine's new heroes."

By that standard, they should love Russia as well. Just saying.

"Russian massacres of Poles primarily refer to atrocities committed by the Soviet Union, most notably the Katyn massacre of 1940, where the Soviet NKVD executed nearly 22,000 Polish military officers, police, and intellectuals. Other major state-sponsored killings include the NKVD "Polish Operation" of 1937–1938, which exterminated roughly 85,000 Poles. [1, 2]
Key historical episodes of Russian massacres and repressions against the Polish nation include:
* The Katyn Massacre (1940): Following the joint Soviet-German invasion of Poland, the Soviet secret police (NKVD) carried out mass executions of Polish prisoners of war and intelligentsia. The killings occurred at multiple sites, including the Katyn forest near Smolensk, Kalinin (now Tver), and Kharkiv. The systematic executions were ordered directly by Joseph Stalin to eliminate Poland's leadership class and potential resistance to Soviet occupation. [1, 2, 3]
* The Polish Operation of the NKVD (1937–1938): As part of the Great Purge, the Soviet regime targeted ethnic Poles living in the USSR. Approximately 111,000 people were arrested, and over 85,000 were executed in a campaign specifically engineered to eliminate perceived Polish fifth-columnists and class enemies. [1, 2]
* Mass Deportations and Repressions (1939–1946): Alongside direct executions, the USSR subjected hundreds of thousands of Polish citizens to forced deportations to Siberia and Central Asia. An estimated 150,000 to over 300,000 Polish civilians died in these labor camps due to harsh conditions, malnutrition, and disease"

….

"Through the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact and its secret protocols signed in August 1939, Hitler and Stalin agreed to carve up Poland. Germany attacked from the west on September 1, followed by the Soviet invasion from the east on September 17, ultimately splitting the country between them."

35thOVI, oh… Poles and Russians have a long-standing score to settle))) These are two countries that have been vying for leadership in the Slavic world for centuries. But…

Russians did not kill Poles based on their ethnicity.

The Katyn massacre of prisoners of war was tried twice. The first time was at the Nuremberg Tribunal, where the investigation found that the Nazis were responsible.
The second time, the European Court of Human Rights indirectly heard the case in 2013, where the victims' relatives demanded compensation from the Russian authorities. The court concluded that the fact that Russians executed Poles at Katyn had not been proven.
That's all. All other accusations are simply political insinuations, devoid of any real significance.

The NKVD repressions in the USSR affected all nationalities living in the USSR, and Russians suffered the most. The "Polish Operation" received its name only because it was aimed at finding agents of the Polish secret service. And then there were the searches for Japanese, German, British, and all sorts of other agents…

Deportations of the Polish population… Is this roughly the same as how Japanese American citizens were deported to the United States? Have you forgotten that there was a war going on then? Many countries were engaged in isolating potentially disloyal populations.
The secret protocol of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact stipulated that Germany would under no circumstances lay claim to the lands annexed from Russia by neighboring countries during the Civil War. That's all—there's nothing special about it. What's the crime here? That Russia prevented Hitler from seizing these lands? Soviet troops entered Poland when it became clear that Poland had been defeated. The only question was where the German troops would position themselves. Incidentally, Churchill was very pleased with this Soviet move.

And you missed the point. The Ukrainian massacre in Volyn was a planned, classic example of ethnic cleansing. It was a decision taken by the OUN-UPA leadership to physically exterminate all Poles in territories that the Ukrainian Nazis considered Ukrainian. Everyone, without exception—women, children, even half-breeds… Moreover, this extermination was to be carried out using the most inhumane methods, so that the Poles would never again inhabit this land and would fear even thinking about it. Russians never did anything like that. On the contrary: in Russian philosophy and mentality, everyone who loves Russia and serves her is Russian. And it doesn't matter what nationality they are by blood: Great Russian, Little Russian, German, Pole, Ethiopian, French, Scot… They are all Russian.

The OUN-UPA were classic Nazis. They knew only one way to fight for a national Ukraine—the extermination of all non-Ukrainians.

And now Zelenskyy names his military units after them. And the Poles understand this message correctly.

Caprum

First I said nothing about any Ukrainian massacre of Poles one way or another.

Only pointed out that the Ukrainians and Nazis were not the only ones practicing on the Poles.

Notice those "Mass Deportations and Repressions (1939–1946):" went through 45 and 46. After any real justifications.

"While the Soviets initially occupied the eastern half of the country in 1939 under the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, Nazi Germany controlled the entirety of Poland following their invasion of the Soviet Union in 1941. The Red Army completely pushed out the German forces and established control over the entirety of Poland's modern borders by the spring of 1945, subsequently turning it into a communist satellite state."

Also you can believe what you please about Stalins invasion, but:

"Germany invaded first, but the Soviet invasion occurred just over two weeks later as part of a pre-planned joint agreement.The two powers acted in coordination under a secret pact to divide Poland between themselves.

Timeline of the 1939 Invasions

September 1, 1939: Nazi Germany invaded Poland from the west, north, and south, marking the official start of World War II.

September 17, 1939: The Soviet Union invaded Poland from the east, fulfilling their secret agreement with Germany."

"The Secret Alliance

The dual invasions were orchestrated under the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, a non-aggression treaty signed on August 23, 1939. This agreement contained a secret protocol that explicitly divided Poland, the Baltic States, and parts of Eastern Europe into German and Soviet spheres of influence.

When the Soviets crossed the border on September 17, they claimed they were merely protecting the Belarusian and Ukrainian minorities following the collapse of the Polish state. In reality, they were securing the territory previously promised to them by Adolf Hitler.""

That last one sounds familiar. 🤔

"No international or domestic court has ever formally tried or convicted Russia—or any individual—for the Katyn Massacre.

However, Russia has officially admitted state guilt, and an international human rights court has legally classified the event as a war crime

Official Admission of GuiltThe 1990 Acknowledgment: After nearly 50 years of falsely blaming Nazi Germany, Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev officially admitted in 1990 that the Soviet secret police (NKVD) carried out the mass executions.

The "Smoking Gun" Proof: In the 1990s, Russia declassified and handed over the original 1940 execution order signed directly by Joseph Stalin and his Politburo.

The 2010 Parliamentary Resolution: The Russian State Duma passed an official declaration explicitly stating that Stalin and other Soviet officials directly ordered the massacre of the 22,000 Polish victims."

What the Ukrainians have done, the Nazis have done… I didn't care… just pointing out the Soviets treated the Poles the same.

fYI

The U.S. interned mostly Japanese citizens.

"The US interned over 120,000 Japanese Americans—mostly from the West Coast, and about two-thirds of whom were US citizens—for nearly four years during World War II. The incarceration began with President Franklin D. Roosevelt's Executive Order 9066 in February 1942, and the last camp finally closed on November 30, 1945"

Official records from the War Relocation Authority (WRA) show that 1,862 people died from all causes while incarcerated in the 10 primary Japanese American relocation camps.

The vast majority of these fatalities were due to natural causes, disease, or medical complications aggravated by the harsh environment, though a small number were the direct result of violence.

Leading Causes of Death

the overall mortality rate in the camps was roughly comparable to the normal civilian population at the time, given the age demographics of the prisoners. According to hospital records, the leading health-related causes included:

Cancer (407 deaths)
Heart disease (293 deaths)
Tuberculosis (206 deaths)
Vascular disease (197 deaths)"

"Roughly 1,100 to 1,200 Japanese American men initially volunteered directly from behind the barbed wire of the mainland internment camps when the US military opened recruitment to them in early 1943."

Not sure why they distrusted western U.S. Japanese worse than east coast. More Japanese prejudice there? Closer to Pearl Harbor.

But we did not march them into a field and shot them. Send them to Alaska. March them into gas chambers. Just saying.

Now you all can get back to your previous show.

Fun fact: you can argue that Russia is a fascist country itself.

Not much to dispute … No matter what one calls it. You can put lipstick on a pig … but it's still a pig …

We're getting further and further off topic. If you want to discuss relations between Poland and Russia, please create a separate thread.

This thread is about Ukrainian Nazism.

There was a resistance movement in Poland during World War II, including an anti-Ukrainian one, but the Poles did not plan or carry out genocide against Ukrainians (although incidents did occur, but they were rare, and they were acts of revenge by some Poles, not a planned cleansing operation).

As for Gorbachev and Putin (yes, Putin too) and the State Duma's admission of COMMUNIST guilt for the Katyn massacre, that's irrelevant. Such things are called "self-incrimination" and are often made for opportunistic reasons. In this case, it was part of the campaign to combat communism in Russia. During perestroika, anti-communists in Russia fabricated a huge number of false documents. Moreover, these anti-communists held the highest positions in the Soviet Communist Party: Gorbachev, Yeltsin, and, among others, Yakovlev, who headed the Communist Party's ideological department, meaning he was responsible for propaganda work in the USSR. He himself writes in his book about the massive falsifications in Soviet archives carried out on his orders. So now any "high-profile" anti-Soviet document requires a thorough examination.
There is no evidence. The supposedly discovered evidence, which for some reason was not published properly and was later handed over by Yeltsin to the Polish side, has disappeared. And now its authenticity cannot be verified. How is this possible?
If evidence existed, it would have been presented. But it doesn't exist. And it never was. It's a fake.

Cuprum the only one who did not read the article or read it incorrectly is you)))))). The first article I linked reports that the use of Nazis continues and has expanded under Putin and the second link was posted in 2025 reporting continued use of Nazis by Putin. Putin's reasons for invading Ukraine are false. They were stated to hide his true objective of recreating the Soviet Union with him in charge. link

You appear to be pushing the nazi propaganda because you cannot respond to what this forum discussion was originally about.
link
link
link
YouTube link
link

William, what you're referring to is propaganda))) It's not worth paying attention to…

35thOVI, here's some information about the Katyn case. But for various reasons, this information is being hidden in both the West and Russia:

link

Katyn massacre = 1940

1940 = Ukranian Nazis?

1940 = Soviet Army (including Ukranians and others)

What are we talking about?…

Armand

"…A war needs to be financed, and Russia financed this one on energy. That engine is sputtering.

Gazprom, once the crown jewel of the Russian state, is now worth roughly 2.5 trillion rubles — about $34 USD billion. That is some 29 times less than the $1 USD trillion valuation CEO Alexei Miller promised investors in 2008, and roughly 75 percent below the company's pre-war peak. As Project Syndicate observed this spring, the firm built to make Europe dependent on Moscow is now valued like a mid-size European supermarket chain. Its exports to non-CIS countries have collapsed from around 200 billion cubic meters a year before the war to roughly 80 billion — a volume last seen in the mid-1980s, in the Soviet Union Putin claims he is restoring.

The downstream picture is no kinder. Ukraine's refinery campaign has helped push Russia — the world's third-largest oil producer — to begin importing gasoline by sea. A full export ban runs through the end of July. Gas stations across Moscow and northern Russia have introduced rationing; many now forbid filling portable containers and accept only cash; the Kremlin has authorized refineries to produce dirtier, lower-grade fuel just to keep the pumps from running dry. Out in the regions, Russian farmers film the price of diesel climbing week by week and ask the camera who is responsible, while deputies propose blocking VPNs so that fewer people can watch them do it.

Here the official story collapses under its own weight. If supply is stable, no one needs to ration it. If the shortage is a fiction invented by bloggers, there is no need to threaten the bloggers. A government confident in its own propaganda does not censor the weather report…"

link

Armand

Cuprum, none of the links that I posted in my last message fit the definition of propaganda. None of them are posting false information to further any cause. They last five are just reporting on the actual situation in Russia and analyzing what is happening there. The Brill article that you linked to supporting what you said about the Maidan massacres also stated:

"The Maidan massacre gave start to conflicts between Ukraine and Russia and between the West and Russia, which Russia drastically escalated by invading Ukraine on February 24, 2022. Russian President Vladimir Putin and other Russian leaders claim that a fascist coup in Ukraine was conducted during the Maidan, with Western government involvement, and that a Nazi regime is in power in Ukraine. He has used this claim to justify the Russian invasion of February 24, 2022. However, scholarly studies show that the Russian government exaggerates the role of neo-Nazis during and after the Maidan, that the Ukrainian governments are not Nazi or neo-Nazi, and that the Russian invasion is illegal under the international law.59 Simply put, the Maidan massacre does not justify the illegal Russian invasion of Ukraine. Conversely, the Russian invasion does not justify the Maidan massacre of the police and the protesters." (6th paragraph from the end of link "

Are you now claiming that the article you used to support what you have been saying is false propaganda?))))) It is sad that you are unable to accept that Putin has been lying to the Russian people. As for the Russian economy even the Russian government has been stating that there are problems and in one area prohibiting civilians from purchasing fuel for their vehicles.

William, propaganda isn't necessarily a lie. Much more often, it's carefully selected facts. You simply highlight what benefits you, and conceal or suppress what doesn't. Plus, you don't present this information as dry facts, but accompany it with commentary that has little to do with reality and narratives that suit your purposes.
I think you constantly see this kind of propaganda during elections. It's the foundation of modern "democracy."

Putin doesn't need to lie to anyone. The overwhelming majority of the Russian population views the eastward expansion of the anti-Russian NATO military bloc as a blatant danger. A direct threat to our families. The West has twice launched large-scale invasions of Russia with its combined economies and armies (Napoleon and Hitler).
I don't like Putin or the current state that exists on Russian territory. But I believe NATO's aggression must be stopped and returned to its 1991 borders. There must be a "security zone" of neutral states between NATO and Russia.
This must be done by any means necessary. And it's in your interests that this be achieved through negotiations, not armed conflict. But if you choose to ignore our security, then go ahead and fight.
Putin is too old and too indecisive. We need a new leader—one who is prepared for a decisive fight. Iran has shown how to act.

Tango01, which international court ruling are you citing when you talk about 1940? Do you realize that Goebbels created this version in 1943? The commission of inquiry assembled by the Nazis in 1943 consisted primarily of representatives of conquered countries and operated under Gestapo supervision (including witnesses who testified). And the goal of this investigation was perfectly clear—Goebbels himself spoke of it—to sow discord within the Allied camp…
And why didn't the Russians execute all the prisoners of war back then? That same General Anders? Maybe he was a communist? Or maybe simply because he wasn't captured by the Germans in 1941, when the Germans seized prisoner of war camps in occupied Soviet territories?
Why didn't the Soviets execute captured Finns, Germans, Romanians, and Italians, but only the Poles were granted this "honor"? Why such an exception?
Goebbels's famous statement about preparations for the arrival of the investigative commission in 1943: "Some of our people should be there earlier, so that when the Red Cross arrives, everything will be ready and so that during the excavations they won't stumble upon anything that doesn't fit our line."
But of course, the West benefits from Goebbels's version. It benefited them during the Cold War, and it benefits them now…

Cuprum, I do know that propaganda is carefully chosen facts to support a specific viewpoint. Even though what is being stated is true, it produces a false narrative. I have witnessed the effect of slanted news on the decisions of people I know. The propaganda of Putin and the Russian government has led to the belief that NATO is a threat to Russia.

Unlike you, I do not highlight only what benefits me. Despite multiple reports and data to the contrary you continue to push Putin's false narrative of Nazis. No matter how many times this has been shown to be false, you cannot accept that Putin's lie about Nazis in Ukraine is false. Even the source you cited about the Maidan massacre, which changed my mind about what happened during it, states that the Nazi claim was false.

What you fail to comprehend is that the links that I posted are not government sponsored news agencies, and do not push views that are intended to benefit one side or the other, unlike most Russian news agencies that only follow the governments narrative. They are independent companies that research, evaluate, and report facts, not propaganda. If Putin doesn't need to lie, then why did he lie to the Russian people about nazis in Ukraine to justify his illegal invasion of Ukraine?

The countries next to Russia no longer wish to be neutral due to their fear of Russian aggression. They were not forced to join NATO. Because of Putin's illegal invasion of Ukraine, Finland and Sweden joined NATO after being unaligned for decades. Countries are not forced to join NATO. When Sweden sought to join NATO, Turkey was opposed to letting it join. NATO members can leave the alliance if they want to. France withdrew from the NATO integrated military command in 1966. It did return in 2009.

Russia has no right to force other countries to leave NATO to assuage Putin's paranoia. They are independent nations and have the right to make their own decisions.

Unlike the WWII Nazi's Russia does not round up civilians and send them to concentration camps to be executed. However, Russia does round up civilians and deport them. Replacing them with Russian citizens. It is estimated that the NKVD deported between 320,000 and 1.5 million Polish citizens to labor camps and exile settlements in 1940 and 41. This happened in Crimea where the Stalin had all the Crimean Tartars removed to central Asia under the false claim that they were supporting the Nazis. (sound familiar?) The Russian government then systematically erased the Tartar culture from Crimea by destroying or renaming historic sites and villages.

After WWII when Russia annexed eastern Poland more Polish civilians were forced out of their homes. Many of them fled to western Poland. The same process is being done in eastern Ukraine. The Russian government has stated that it has deported between 2.5 to 4.7 Ukrainians from eastern Ukraine. Russian citizens have been relocated to the Ukrainians former homes Children have been taken from their parents for "re-education" as Russians.

NATO is a structure created exclusively for the war against Russia. Is this a fact?
NATO is an aggressive bloc that has repeatedly attacked other countries without UN sanction (Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya). Fact?

Nazi ideology in Ukraine is not a lie. Right now, this is precisely why Ukraine is in conflict with Poland.

I never refer to Russian sources of information. Only to Western or neutral ones (Indian for example).

Many countries in Central Asia border Russia. Why aren't they afraid of a Russian invasion? It's simple – they are not part of a military bloc hostile to Russia, which means Russia does not expect an attack from them.

Russia has the right to do for the sake of its security what it sees fit. Just like NATO countries do (see the countries I listed above that were attacked by NATO).

After World War II, the USSR resettled Poles from territories where there was a bloody Polish-Ukrainian conflict. "West of Poland" are those territories that were wrested from Germany and transferred to the Poles. By decision of the allies.
Would you prefer that the Polish-Ukrainian massacre continue?

The Russians are resettling civilians from the combat zone. And keep all the other Ukrainian propaganda narratives to yourself))) Parents or guardians can pick up a child at any time – but to do this they will have to come to Russia and present the necessary documents.
The price of Ukrainian lies))) They talk about 20,000 deported children, but present a list of 330… Do you know why? They counted all the children who lived in these territories. Even if their parents are pro-Russian.
link
Of this number, 101 children were returned back in 2022.
tass.com/politics/1967327

Cuprum, one problem is the Russian definition of "neutral". As in "we won't invade you as long as you don't do anything against Russian interests". Viz Czechoslovakia, Hungary and now Ukraine.

Other countries prefer "we can choose to do whatever we want without interference from either side".

For some reason, I immediately thought of the Cuban Missile Crisis.
Okay. Then we'll have to fight a little. Because in a fight it is better to strike first if a fight is inevitable.

Ukraine has brought the (drone) war to Russia. But it may prolong the fighting.

"Public opinion is changing," says Mr. Strokan, "but not necessarily in the direction that people in the West seem to expect."

link