"Le feu de la cavalerie française." Topic

Bonjour à tous.

Pensez-vous que les dragons ou carabiniers français étaient meilleurs au tir que leurs homologues hussards, chasseurs à cheval, etc ?
Meilleurs armes à feu, meilleur entrainement, etc.

Traduction Google:
Do you think the French dragoons or carabiniers were better marksmen than their counterparts, the hussars, mounted chasseurs, etc.? Better firearms, better training, etc.

Cordialement
Bernard

Nope.

Maybe better than cuirassiers but I agree with our British colleague Billy – I suspect that the light cavalry – hussars and chasseurs – were as good if not better than dragoons

Peut-être mieux que les cuirassiers, mais je suis d'accord avec notre collègue britannique Billy – la cavalerie légère, comme les hussards ou les chasseurs, serait tout aussi bonne, voire meilleure, au tir

But…how horse riders can be good shooters or better than others, it was not really the role of all the cavalrymen*, heavy line or light, to be shooters given that the firearms played a minor role for them…

*57 106 in 1805 : 1276 Carabiniers 7476 Cuirassiers 24 858 Dragoons 15 866 Chasseurs 7630 Hussars

en règle générale l'arme d'épaule (fusil ou mousqueton) est essentiellement utilisée par les postes avancés, pour la défense d'un stationnement ou encore pour l'attaque à pied d'une position organisée. On comprend dans ces conditions que la cavalerie cuirassée n'en soit pas dotée à l'exception au mieux d'une cinquantaine d'hommes par régiment, le combat d'infanterie demeure exceptionnel même pour les dragons censés cependant le pratiquer. Par ailleurs le tir à cheval demeure à la fois compliqué, compte tenu de la difficulté du rechargement et très aléatoire quant aux résultats. Les Carabiniers l'utilisent parfois en partie par tradition pour repousser une charge adverse. De même le fait pour les vedettes et cavaliers d'avant-garde de progresser mousquetons sur la cuisse n'a pas pour finalité première de répondre par ce biais au danger d'une rencontre imprévue, il vaut mieux tourner bride! mais d'alerter immédiatement le gros de la troupe par la détonation. Contrairement à l'infanterie dont l'efficacité tient avant tout à sa capacité de feu, la cavalerie combat donc essentiellement en recourant à l'arme blanche en l'occurence le sabre

La Grande Armée Analyse d'une machine de guerre
Jean-François Brun
**********************************************************
As a general rule, shoulder weapons (rifle or carbine) were primarily used by forward positions, for defending encampments, or for attacking organized positions on foot. It is understandable, then, that armored cavalry were not equipped with them, with the exception of, at best, fifty men per regiment. Infantry combat remained exceptional, even for dragoons, who were supposed to practice it. Furthermore, firing from horseback was both complicated, given the difficulty of reloading, and highly unpredictable in terms of results. The Carabiniers sometimes used it, partly out of tradition, to repel an enemy charge. Similarly, the practice of vedettes and vanguard cavalrymen advancing with carbine slung over their thighs was not primarily intended to counter the danger of an unexpected encounter—it was better to turn back!—but rather to immediately alert the main body of troops with the sound of the shot. Unlike infantry, whose effectiveness lies primarily in its firepower, cavalry fights mainly using bladed weapons, specifically the saber.

url=https://postimg.cc/njGWhdpC]

@MDDriessen
Je n'ai pas compris ??????

maybe a subliminal message to recall that à chacun son métier et les vaches seront bien gardées :
to the infantrymen, firepower and marksmen; to the cavalrymen, mobility and sabreurs…

But…how horse riders can be good shooters or better than others, it was not really the role of all the cavalrymen*, heavy line or light, to be shooters given that the firearms played a minor role for them…

Their role was not to be engaged as dismounted cavalry. As to better shots…would that not be answered by the skilles of the individual and not as a group? Substitute the role of a baker ina heavy cav regiment. Were bakers in a Cuirassier regiment a better baker than one from the infantry? I think the question does not have creddence as to the proficiency of a skill not practiced on the battlefield outside of the main purpose of heavy cavalry.

OK !
Merci à tous.
Bernard

Mais je dois demander : ces cavaliers tirent-ils à cheval ou sont-ils à pied ? Dans les films, on voit des cavaliers abattus à cheval par des cow-boys armés de Colt 45, eux aussi à cheval et prêts à tirer.

Cela change tout. On sait tous qu'un tir visé avec une arme à canon lisse était une perte de temps, même à l'arrêt.

But I must ask, are these cavalry firing from a horse, or have they dismounted? What we see in films, is riders shot from their horses, by cowboys with Colt 45s also riding to contact, when firing.

It makes a huge difference. We all know that aimed shot from a smoothbore, was a waste of time, even when stable.

Lasalle (or was it Marbot) had his unit attempt to stop a charge of cossacks with carbine fire but the unit was broken, so in retaliation he made his men sit on horse back within artillery range!

Adjudant Dupuy 11e Chasseurs in campaign against the Prussians in 1806

The regiment further distinguished itself with several valiant charges, with first-rank fire commanded appropriately and executed with precision (…)
when they found themselves within six paces of them, a first rank fire commanded by the colonel stopped them short and made them turn back: the chasseurs, then, throwing back their carbines, seizing their sabers, took advantage of their disorder, charged them in turn with impetuosity, pursued them for more than six hundred paces, sabered and captured a great number of them!

Trumpeter Chevillet 8e Chasseurs against the Hungarian Hussars in Italy 1809

The first rank had their carbines raised and sabers slung over their wrists by the dragonne, and the second rank stood ready to draw their sabers.
I was there too, firmly in my position, in the first rank next to Lieutenant Chenavard, and, like all those who did not carry a carbine, I held my pistol in my hand.
Thus positioned, we stood firm awaiting the column of Hungarian hussars. It was Seiklers' (Szekler) regiment, advancing at a slow canter, rather disorganized, sabers drawn, and making swaggering and displays as if to intimidate us. We could already hear their shouts. Several even attacked us with carbines. It was quite remarkable then, the order and silence observed by our regiment; we heard only our officers telling us: "Don't move, let them keep approaching." Motionless as a wall, we watched these famous hussars approach with composure; each man was already choosing the one on whom he would aim. We allowed this column to approach within ten paces of our front. When they saw us aim at them, they probably regretted having advanced so far; they paused for a moment. We seized this opportunity to open fire. And so they were greeted with a volley of carbines and pistol shots. For my part, I also aimed my pistol at an old hussar with a large gray mustache, who was just coming right up to me; I noticed him clearly, I even saw him dead, and I believe I didn't miss, for I immediately saw him stagger, and I lost sight of him in the mass of their ranks.

being trumpeter only, exasperated to be obliged to carry two carbines, including a double-barreled carbine, by his captain "as if my back was an arsenal" however our trumpeter didn't seem later so reluctant to have and even use carbines…

I also found an opportunity to put my skills to use; having spotted a wounded soldier, I dismounted to speak to him. He provided me with his carbine and a packet of cartridges, and I went to ambush myself with three of our Chasseurs behind a pile of logs and tree stumps, near an isolated cottage that was already being used as a dugout by a group of soldiers. There, I tied my horse to a tree and, along with the others, fired a dozen shots at the enemy
(…)
So I carried a carbine hanging from a hook, like a Chasseur; that was my idea, I thought I would be more active with my two pistols, two packets of cartridges in my cartridge pouch, my saber
(…)
As for me, I can say that with the fourth carbine shot I fired on that occasion, aimed at an enemy hussar about 50 paces away, I saw him instantly retreat and reach the village, staggering on his horse; I had undoubtedly sent him his pay.
(…)
At the first shot I fired, my Hungarian almost unseated me, so wild was he at the sound; at the second, the third shot, I calmed his hasty movements. I was finishing reloading the carbine for the fourth time when a hussar approached to within 30 paces and fired his carbine at me while running. As I saw him coming, I also reserved my carbine shot for him, which I fired at the same instant; neither of us reaches the other. Immediately, I saw my opponent take his saber in hand and maneuver in front of me, signaling me with his arm, and swearing to me in his Hungarian and broken German that he wanted to cut me down and take my Hungarian horse.

at such point he was fed up to be trumpeter

I was so upset that I couldn't help but vent my anger; I did several crazy things, all to my own detriment, which only served to make the others laugh. I no longer wanted to be a trumpeter; I smashed my cursed instrument and threw it down a well; I immediately went to get some equipment and a carbine from the supply depot and returned to my companions, determined to serve as a chasseur

When today, June 25th, in the morning, I reported for roll call as a chasseur, my captain, seeing me with my carbine and equipment, approached me and asked what I was doing there. I replied calmly: "Captain, you will no doubt blame my impetuosity and inconsistency; I broke my trumpet out of spite because it is an obstacle to my advancement."

third example always the Light Cavalery and the Chasseurs
Parquin 20e Chasseurs

Colonel Castex asked if the carbines were loaded. Upon receiving the affirmative reply, he commanded:
"Carbines up!"
We always carried our carbines on hooks in the campaign.
This enormous mass of dragoons continued to advance onward at a walking pace, and the colonel remained impassive. But, when the Russians were only six paces away, the colonel quickly commanded:
"Fire!"
This command was executed by the corps as if they were on a drill.
The effect of this volley was therefore terrible: almost the entire first rank of the Russian dragoons was put out of action.
(…)
"Your first rank will raise their carbines; the enemy, who is on the flank, will charge you en masse; You will only give the order to fire when he is six paces away. He will return to the charge; you will be cut down, wounded, knocked back; but you will not turn back, I have my eyes on you.

"These two orders were executed with the same precision as they had been given, and at the moment our platoon was charged by the enemy, we fired at point-blank range