"The Odyssey" Topic

I must confess myself surprised that there hasn't yet been a thread discussing the controversies swirling around Nolan's upcoming adaptation of the Homeric epic.

Discuss…

Me too. Among other problems, why would the most beautiful woman in the entire world have an identical twin sister?

I believe that is discussed in the Lounge or Plus Boards.
However:
Because we are afraid of being called racist for thinking Helen should look Greek.
Also we are afraid of being called trans-phobic for being perplexed that a 110 lb trans man would portray Achilles.
I've read that Penelope is depicted as a real girl-boss. 😱
We are a very sensitive Woke lot here.

Is it safe to lament the lack of Boars Tusk Helmets? I sincerely hope that Nolan does not have a contract with a miniatures company to produce those figures.

According to Greek mythology, Helen of Troy had a twin sister named Clytemnestra. Yes, she who was married to Agamemnon.

Previously

TMP link

I suspect that Hollywood has little interest in satisfying tiny minority group such as wargamers. Sad but probably true.
Wargamers can have a moan , and they do, but who cares?

Recent topics seem to indicate that gamers on TMP are very proud and vocal about how they do not go to the cinema.

I go to the cinema regularly. I choose which films to watch. My main criterion being "Will this be an enjoyable experience to share with my friends?"

I have opinions about US wrestling but do not voice them because I have no interest in watching it.

martin

As for Helen and Clytemnestra…
Typical mythology soap opera.
Zeus appeared to Leda in the form of a swan. Of course, being Zeus, he… had his way with her. This produced 2 eggs.
Leda immediately went and then had sex with her husband Tyndareus.
One egg produced Helen and Castor.
The other produced Clytemnestra and Pollux.
Further digging had Tyndareus sacrificing to the gods, but he accidentally neglected Athena. So she cursed him that his daughters would be adulterous s.

This is off the top of my head. Details might be sketchy.
Now, don't try to pull such nonsense on me as science or biology. Ask Bullfinch or Graves for the lowdown. I'm sure the Greeks accepted it with a smirk and eye roll.

So, yes. Lupita can play both, although I would have preferred Anya Taylor-Joy.

Not sure who Hollywood wants to satisfy these days. Pretty clearly not me, but there has been "Project Hail Mary" and "The Sheep Detectives," so the year has not been a total loss.

The good news is that there are many thousands of books, television and movies produced in previous eras. So until the sale or possession of "divisive" or "problematic" fiction is banned, I'm not in bad shape. (That may yet happen, of course--but with a little luck I can be dead by then.)

"This is off the top of my head."

John, you have a gift for making Greek mythology sound like a particularly disreputable family reunion. Well done.

As for casting — Lupita might bring real gravitas but Anya Taylor-Joy does have that uncanny, dangerous "daughter of a cursed royal house" look the Greeks, and I, would have appreciated.

Well, if it's really The Odyssey, Achilles won't be in it for very long, unless you count being a really whiny ghost.

There is some thinking that the casting was done in an effort to qualify for the Oscars due to the recent inclusion rules. That's about the only way it makes sense.

Money is generally the measurement used in Hollywood, to my understanding.

Seems just another movie to save my money and not see.

"Creative Liberties with Dialogue: Beyond the casting, viewers have scrutinized the creative direction, with early promotional footage revealing that characters use modernized American slang (e.g., "Let's go" and "Daddy") and feature cameos like NBA star LeBron James, causing some purists to accuse the film of lacking proper historical and literary reverence."

What percentage of the cast is actually Greek?
Native to Turkey?

Are there any American Indians? Why not? I looked at the cast and it seems every other race is there. Maybe they just didn't include them in the cast I saw.

Why wasn't an actual Ghost cast as the Ghost of Achilles? Is it "other worldly" discrimination!? Spectralphobia!?

Recent reports and fan speculation suggest that Elliot Page is not playing Achilles in Christopher Nolan's upcoming The Odyssey, but rather Elpenor, one of Odysseus' crew members who appears as a ghost in the Underworld.

There's plenty of criticism outside the wargaming community – indeed, enough hours of Elliot Page memes to last a lifetime.

They also likely missed an opportunity to center and empower differently-abled people, intersectional ones too.

The purported wokeness seems to make people think they can and need to form an opinion now. Why? There's no reason to decide anything. When it comes out there will be reviews and your friends will see it and if it sounds good you go see it. If it sounds bad, you ignore it and get on with things.

The casting decisions that have been extensively discussed seem questionable, but they're none of my business. It's other people doing their thing, and good for them. They're not going to "ruin my childhood" by making a bad movie of The Odyssey.

There are things going on in the world that we should not ignore, but there are things we can, and in fact should, ignore if we don't want to engage them.

I also would have preferred Aaron Rodgers as Achilles. Washed up, past his prime, bitter and totally "It's all about ME!" His glory is all in the past. Spoken as a Steelers fan.

But Charlize Theron as Calypso? Oh, yes. Yes indeed.

I'm thinking of tracking down the Armand Assante version.

Anya in Peaky Blinders…
Clytemnestra vibes for sure.

I'm trying to think who I would have cast as Circe. Cersei? That's where it gets confusing. Jenna Ortega? Maisie Williams?

But let's play the Recasting Game, even though "recasting" is technically illegal on TMP. 😄

The movie is white-washed. So much so, they're sailing around in Viking ships.

The critics of the detractors of Helen's casting choice, do not point out with equal vigor that there isn't a single person of identifiable Mediterranean heritage, let alone Greek, in the entire movie.

Combine this with generi-Greek costumes, dialogue issues, & the idea that a guy whose attention to detail in movies like Dunkirk & Interstellar, seems to be doing a movie to chase dollars & movie awards, I'm giving it a pass.

Damon.

Nolan is using a 2017 translation by British-American classicist Emily Wilson and isn't really based on the classic version.

I'll save everyone 2 hours of their life by telling them don't waste it watching this piece of dreck. Play a game or paint some figures… it's a much better use of your time!

I thought that cultural appropriation was a terrible wrong? But you can do it if it is a Greek myth and was created by the Greeks?

This is going to be a real beer and popcorn show. That is, watching the "controversies" slamming and defending. I'll save my money, and gas for the drive to the nearest IMAX theater. I do indeed have figures to paint.
Some years ago, I spent beaucoup dollars on Redoubt and Foundry Trojan War figures. I prefer Redoubt, by the way. Boars tusk helmets, chariots, splendid BRONZE Dendra armor. But I couldn't recruit the locals to join in.

Due to DEI hires, I guarantee 8 Oscar nominations. I just hope that the Onion and the Razzies step up and do their duty.

Hubris. How fitting!

I remember when I was a kid, my Mom "dragged" me to see Yul Brynner in The Odyssey at the Royal Alex Theatre in Toronto.
I think it was 1974. I think it was the spoken play and not the later musical (which flopped). Never heard anyone project their voice like Yul Brynner. My Mom was always trying to culture me. Miss her – she was a great Mom.

John the OFM – I forgot about the 1997 TV miniseries The Odyssey with Armand Assante and a great supporting cast. It was quite good as I recall. Someone has posted it on You Tube in 2 parts – good quality.

First negative thing was bad costumes. Guess that means we will have no figure line tie in.

Second was the use of American English in place of the more proper British English. Makes it hard to have an epic feel.

Then came the casting issues. There are plenty of black actresses that could play Helen, unfortunately, their choice was not one of them.

Final nail in the coffin, well, you've seen the memes.

All in all sure miss for me.

Once I saw the armored goons, I knew I'd be taking a pass!

35th, they can't cast a real ghost as the ghost of Achilles because all prominent Hollywood people are "immortal." (Just ask their publicity people.) Anyway, enough of the footage involves the Trojan War itself, I wouldn't bet against them needing a live Achilles. (Interesting that no one in a position to know is denying the Page casting.) And I agree: lots of other odd choices.

But it's all academic. We're speculating, and there will be plenty of time to decide after we have more information. If I buy a ticket, it will be after it's been reviewed and recommended by people I trust. I doubt many of us are reserving tickets to the first showing.

I had read the Odyssey years ago. Once for class and later for pleasure.
I had to look up Elpenor, because quite frankly he was so forgettable. I had not memorized the Odyssey.

Let's summarize him. After a quick Wikipedia. 🙄
The youngest member of Odysseus' crew. Did nothing memorable at Troy. He gets drunk and climbs up on the roof of Circe's place. Temple?
He sees the boat pulling away from the shore of Circe's island. They forgot about him. He tries to climb down, falls and breaks his neck.
He's the first person Odysseus encounters in the Underworld. He begs Odysseus to bury him so he won't be left in Limbo. The End. Pitiful. So as soon as Odysseus gets back, he cremates the body and buries it with honors.

Achilles. Who hasn't heard of him? Hero of all heroes.
What a slap in the face it would be to Page to edit the film to say "Errr… No. Not Achilles. Elpenor! (Did I get that name right?)"
Nope. That's just a fanboy excuse.
We're stuck. Elliot Page is Achilles, and Nolan is a woke fool who will cost the studio hundreds of millions of dollars.
Oh, he'll get another project. No worries. No studio oversight either. Do you know who I am?

As for race swapping, it's a time honored Hollywood tradition.
How many "Moors" have played Othello? Oh, yeah! Olivier!
John Wayne as Genghis Cohen.
Cochise was played by a Polish Jew.
Scarlett. Matt.
It's like demanding that an actor be gay to play a gay actor.

This too shall pass. The studios simply have to recognize that their duty is NOT "representation", but making a profit for them. And that's by making movies that people want to pay money to see.

I will have to PASS on this Odd Odyssey. I'm not sure which is going to be worse, the casting, the dialog or the strange change of events.
I thought I saw somewhere that the Trojan horse is half buried in the ocean. So the Trojans have to "wrestle" it ashore. I'm sure the Greeks built this huge wooden structure only to shove it into the sea. And the men hidden in it, hoping they don't drown.

I have a number of, lets just say, less historically and culturally aware friends who are excited about the movie, so I shall tag along, suspend everything that needs suspending, and enjoy the romp.

Now to get into the high grass in the outfield of Greek Mythology 245.
Castor and Pollux were the twin brothers of both Helen and Clytemnestra.
They both were crew and noted heroes on the Argo, along with Jason.
One generation later, Helen and Clytemnestra were prominent figures in the Trojan War.
Explain this temporal anomaly in 25 words or less.
Yes, I know the answer, but you're the one taking the exam. Please turn in your cellphone and any other devices.

Simple. Greek heroes aged according to narrative necessity, not chronology. The gods controlled the calendar, and continuity editors had not yet been invented.

Flashbacks.

I admit. It was just a joke.
But pull up a copy of Bullfinch or Graves, and see how they try to sort things out from the few fragments that survived. First to be compiled into the Illiad, and which versions survived.

I've read the Iliad more than the Odyssey. But I got the impression that "Homer" would travel from village to village and tell the stories about the local hero they wanted to hear.
Read Book 5. It's as if "Homer" is having a few at the Inn at Argos.
Boy, does Diomedes kick ass! And a few Divine butts too!
He gently gives Aphrodite a wound on her wrist. (Don't worry. She gets back at him later!) She goes whimpering back to Daddy Zeus. "There there, little bird. Maybe girls shouldn't be on the battlefield. Let Daddy kiss it and make it get better."
D then gives Ares (the GOD OF WAR!!!) a more serious wound. He too goes back to cry to Zeus. "Oh, shut up and quit sniveling!"
Athena tries to get him to fight Apollo.
A says, basically, "Do you know who I am?"
D says "Uhhh… Why don't I go over there and slay a few random Trojans?"
"Good idea! Begone now!"

Hey. If we're going to rewrite the Iliad to attack the Patriarchy, which is the "translation" Nolan is praising, my home town version works too.

A "problem" with this movie and its outraged critics is that so many proclaim that Helen and Clytemnestra were NOT "twin sisters"!
As I showed above, they were. And those outraged critics don't know what the hell they're talking about.

So, outrage yourself all you want. But at least know what you're talking about. Matt Walsh, I'm looking at you. You too, Sydney Watson.
Is it too much to ask that you do a simple Google search before you make a fool out of yourself?

Watched the trailer. Would not get me to the movies. Might watch it on Netflix, if it gets there.

At least the Cyclops still had one eye. OPPs! Are we still allowed to use "cyclops" to describe someone? Or are they now: "binocular challenged" individuals? 🤔

I do lose track.

Casting decisions aside -- the sets and costumes are awful. The warriors and Odyseuss are wearing dark cloths, no colors, their helmets have these silly looking giant oversized fanlike crests, others look like they are wearing Batman armor. They are sailing in dark, dingy VIKING ships… the Laestrygonians look like a bunch of bulky Iron Man robots in silver armor.

In contrast, here's some fan trailers that nail the historicity! Looks WAY better than the actual Nolan trailers.

YouTube link

YouTube link

SB, you are right. Does look better.

I'm taking a hard pass on this. I can tell from trailers and quasi-reviews that it would only annoy the hell out of me, in all manner of ways. It already does!

Nolan – the most drastically overrated director of his generation. Seriously, I don't like him as a director – it's all dark and dingy with the use of filters. Geez Dude, I guess if you can't dazzle them with the brillance of the storytelling, you baffle them with the b.s. of special effects.

Regarding this latest dumpster fire from the supposed 'greatest' director of his generation – (a) the casting sucks, (b) the costumes suck, (c) the sets suck, (d) the dialogue sucks, (e) the director sucks, (f) the book that Nolan based his 'Odyssey' on sucks, (g)there is nothing in this movie that doesn't suck.

What more can be said? It'll win a heck of a lot of awards for being 'brave' but no one will watch it – just like most of the slob that Hollyweird churns out ad nauseum.

Holy Smokes, SB!
My old Redoubt army! 😄👍

From an article today.

"Kenyan actress Lupita Nyong'o has admitted that before being cast as Helen of Troy in Christopher Nolan's adaptation of the 2,800-year-old Greek classic The Odyssey, she had never even heard of the epic story, despite having graduated from Yale University.

"I really had no idea what The Odyssey was," she told Elle Magazine. "I was like, ‘oh, snap, I don't know the first thing about this.' So it was a crash course. I picked up the books and read them immediately. I have this film to thank for my Greek mythological education."
"

Interesting.
Full disclosure. I used to sell Comcast Xfinity door to door.
I have a minimal Xfinity package. Stuff +HBO.

So, in despair, I used my Voice Remote™️ to ask for The Odyssey. The awesome Armand Asssnte miniseries.
🤔
It's FREE on a service I never heard of. "fAWe some", or something like that.

Check it out. At least it's in color, and not dingy drab NolanMAX.
Now, I realize that the vast majority of TMP Denizens are techno-phobic. (It's a joke, Dear Editor! Not a Group attack!)

So, if your current television provider is…
You might be surprised.
Like I said, Comcast Xfinity has a VOICE REMOTE™️ which is not like old fashioned "look at what's available".

An Odyssey! In color! See if you are privileged too!
It's late, so I'll check it out tomorrow.

Now I'm supposed to have a "televison provider?" I have a wonderful invention called a "DVD player" which prevents further alteration of my movies and TV in the interests of "inclusivity" "sensitivity" "diversity" or whatever next week's excuses for censorship and propagandizing will be.

Great work, SB. I'm probably too old myself, but it looks as though my son and grandsons will live in a world where Hollywood has been replaced. (And the sooner the better. They seem to be incapable of learning.)

@robert piepenbrink

Check this out -- this whole short movie is AI. Who needs Hollywood anymore?

YouTube link

I sense the presence of someone who could never fix the clock in his VCR.
Naming no names. 😄

Enjoyed "Oppenheimer." Disappointed by "Dunkirk." I will pass on "The Odyssey" there are much better versions.