"Is it over?" Topic

The MOU delivers several "losers", apart from the World in general that will be paying tolls to the Iranians for their oil supplies.

I really feel for the brave Iranians who opposed their brutal regime & have been entirely disregarded. Lots of early war rhetoric on helping them but they finish in a worse position than they started. Aren't the Kurds lucky they opted to keep out of the war?

Israel is also looking in a precarious spot. Their actions in the Iran War have not endeared them to anyone on either side. And their US ally seems less than benign. JD Vance just said, "What I will say, & this does bother me, is people close to Netanyahu are attacking the deal…Israel should consider two thirds of the defensive weapons that have protected their homeland are provided by the US government & paid for by American taxpayers."

Ominous.

On a side note, not looking good for the Reflecting Pool's American Flag Blue:

link

Probably not a good idea to add the hydrogen peroxide to the lining. This is what happens when demands are made for a result and advice against those actions are brushed aside. Par for course.

The reflecting pool is literally a bs issue – searching for another reason to attack Trump. For example, "Algae blooms are not uncommon during the summer, but researchers say the Reflecting Pool's newly darkened surface may be intensifying the problem."

The prior paint job was a charcoal BLACK, much darker than the deep navy blue painted this time. AND the prior POTUS tried an eco-green solution in which they would pump water from the Tidal Basin through filters into the Reflecting Pool, which lead to mass algal blooms and a stinky dead Reflecting Pool full of clumpy crap that the Trump admin had to fix, and of course all the pipes, even flushed, have algae spores you can't really get rid of. And it's high Summer, perfect algae season. So on that you're wrong.

On more serious issues, the Iran deal, I'm not impressed by anything I'm seeing so far. I know this is the deal to secure a deal and nothing has really been finalized yet -- but I'm disappointed by what I see as the cost-to-gains balance. This deal seems to enable too much in the way of upfront concessions to Iran for downstream promises, and I don't understand the inclusion of Lebanon which relaxes the pressure on Iran's primary proxy army, Hezbollah.

I suppose the next 60 days will tell, and it gives the US an operational pause to reconsitute as well. But with the boot off their neck, the mullahs are no doubt feeling invincible again and I feel it's likely that they will now be planning their own "October Surprise" to influence the US midterm elections directly.

@35thOVI: Maybe it would have been more obvious to you what really was going on if Trump would have signed the document in a rail car in a wood in Compiègne?

Dogtail,

Ouch!

47 is doing the right thing, painful as it is, and unfortunately he is going to be very much criticized but it seems like there is a realization that the alternative is worse and that redounds to his credit.

Yes … The only way to bring any modicum of peace in that region is remove Iran's islamists … one way or another …

Recognizing that the administration got us into this conflict unilaterally, I nevertheless find myself pulling for 47 to get us out of it, not least because the alternatives are difficult to contemplate.

Yes after all the rhetoric, media spin, etc. Iran getting deployable nukes is a very concerning situation. Which is the seminal point I kept trying to make. Iran's islamists and nukes is a very, very bad event.

The reflecting pool is literally a bs issue – searching for another reason to attack Trump.

Well, it was brought forward by someone else on this thread, a topic about Iran, as a "win" for the administration. Much like this administration touted the remodeling as a "win" and an opportunity to denigrate previous administrations. Trump said he'd make it "much more beautiful than when they did it in 1922."

It's hubris and it's a consistent theme. No different than declaring the war will be over only with an unconditional surrender. It is it hyperbole? Or is hubris? Or is both?

As for the pool itself, it was originally a tile and asphalt bottom. In 2012, the bottom was changed to concrete. I hadn't heard that it was previously painted charcoal black, do you have a source for that? I'd be very interested as I've been a resident in the area for about 30 years. The reflecting pool has had plenty of problems in the last 100 or so years and those problems don't really seem to care if it's a Republican or Democrat in office. Perhaps it's poor design, perhaps it's because of the water that's used to fill it? On a side note, in what seems like a lifetime ago, I remember being a police recruit and tasked by my sergeant with hunting down rogue ducklings that had fallen out of the reflecting pool and reuniting them in the water with their mother's. Ahh memories.

I've noticed a certain smugness from some on the other side of the political fence regarding the US's catastrophic defeat in Iran.

Again convoluted, biased statement … The USA is not losing. Again … Iran's military assets have very much removed from the board.

Most of their leadership is gone …

Their economy is in a very bad place …

And they can't make many moves without the IDF or US sees what they are doing.

It would again foolish to call that a loss. The US is not hanging on by thread. Iran is …

For Iran is it a matter of time … They are on their own. And no matter what happens the US and the IDF can continue to lay waste to Iran's critical assets with little risk.

The risk is on Iran's end … And they just don't want to admit it.

@ Dogtail

Someone had to say it.

These are all byproducts of the populism that has become all too common in politics today where we dehumanize the opposition.

Dehumanizing the opposition is nothing new. But with instant 24hr media daily much more is heard in almost real time. And in many cases the facts are not the priority … ratings are. As the media paints the picture that fits their narrative and agenda. Which revolves around trashing the POTUS and his admin, etc.

I don't know who brought up the Reflecting Pool originally – there are some here absolutely obsessed with politics – but it's an interesting NON-POLITICAL topic (though probably not suitable for here. However..)

Any of you people been to lovely Bordeaux?

link

"The Miroir d'eau in Bordeaux keeps its water crystal clear through an advanced automated underground system that continuously filters, oxygenates, and UV-treats the water. The 3,450-square-meter pool operates in a closed loop, regularly draining and circulating the water to maintain strict hygiene standards".

I was told by a jardinier that it was the UV treatment that really did the job. The French really know fountains & water features & perhaps someone in charge in Washington might think to get some real expertise & ask them?

"Il ne faut jamais dire Fontaine, je ne boirai pas de ton eau"

Even if this ill-considered conflict was always destined to end badly, the consequences for the West are not something to celebrate. The world is generally a safer and more stable place when the United States possesses prestige, influence and credible power.

Ill considered … ? Removing Iran's ability to make and use deployable is not an ill-conceived objective. Is it ? To believe that is beyond foolish …

Iran's islamists with nukes … what could properly go wrong … E.g. Hiroshima and Nagasaki x 100 …

Or as we would say, "Tha an t-uisge glan agus fuar "

All the talk about the pool and algae, etc. is just distracting noise i.e. 🐴💩 … The bottom line is lunatic islamist on a quest to get nukes …

"Tha an t-uisge glan agus fuar "

A lot of people can speak another language … what does that have to do with the topic ? I'm saying – It doesn't !

Israel is also looking in a precarious spot. Their actions in the Iran War have not endeared them to anyone on either side.

How ? Who is going to attack them with any chance of success ? No one …

I believe many are not upset with the IDF's attacks on Hamas, Hezbollah, the Houthis, Iran, etc. All of those islamists mobs are a threat to not only Israel but many in the "West".

The more that are removed from the battlefield … the better. Now that endears the IDF to me and actually many others. Who hate islamists a much as they hate "infidels" … which is pretty much everyone here.

The question that remains: will the US Navy scuttle in Scapa Flow?

The more important question is how could someone come up with such a poor example of … well … I don't know what ?

Maybe it would have been more obvious to you what really was going on if Trump would have signed the document in a rail car in a wood in Compiègne?

Is that another reference to the POTUS is somehow like Hitler ? Find a better example … As if the POTUS was like Hitler, Iran for one would look like the dark side of the moon …

You may need to get better writers …

@dogtail

I like the fact that Macron made Trump sign the document in Versailles. The question that remains: will the US Navy scuttle in Scapa Flow?

Cute. But it should be remembered that the US Navy is what keeps the free world…free.

Whatever one thinks of this administration, this agreement, or the wisdom of the conflict itself, the underlying reality has not changed: American sea power remains one of the central pillars keeping global commerce open and the international order functioning.

The US finds itself in a strategic knot but that doesnt mean Iran are suddenly the good guys; by almost any measure, they remain a menace. The fault lies more with permissions and executions rather than whether Iran has proven some moral superiority.

@ochoin -- here's where we are because you can't stop hating Trump and keep reaching for disasters to pin on him. Here's your water feature…

Because the Miroir d'eau in Bordeaux cycles shallow, constantly exposed water over warm granite slabs, it is susceptible to algae growth. To combat this, the city routinely performs cyclical water treatments, automated filtering, and periodic shutdowns to scrub the surface clean. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
Why Algae Occurs

• The Environment: The combination of natural sunlight, heat, and shallow, stationary water creates an ideal breeding ground for algae and thin bacterial films.
• Heavy Usage: With millions of visitors and locals wading in the water, sunscreen oils, organic matter, and skin cells continuously enter the water, providing nutrients for algae to bloom. [3, 4, 8, 9, 10]

How the City Cleans It

• Continuous Circulation: The water mirror operates on a massive underground closed-circuit system. The water is constantly cycled through an underground reservoir where it is filtered and treated.
• Maintenance & Scrubbing: During the summer when heat spikes encourage algae, the city shuts the system down to scrub the granite slabs. The entire basin can be purged, treated with algaecides and chlorine, and refilled for safe public use.
• Annual Draining: The basin is drained once a year for a deep, thorough clean, and usually halts operation during the late fall and winter months for maintenance and to prevent freezing. [2, 11]

If you are planning a trip to Bordeaux and want to see the mirror effect without any maintenance downtime, tell me:What month are you planning to visit?Are you looking for the best times to take reflective photographs?I can help you time your visit perfectly!
AI responses may include mistakes.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miroir_d%27eau
[2] https://science.howstuffworks.com/engineering/civil/bordeaux-water-mirror.htm
[3] https://www.facebook.com/lifeinruralfrance/posts/the-miroir-deau-or-water-mirror-is-located-in-bordeaux-right-in-front-of-the-ico/1205905834975230/
[4] https://nantes.maville.com/actu/actudet_-nantes.-le-miroir-d-eau-vire-au-vert_52716-3051788_actu.Htm
[5] https://www.ouest-france.fr/pays-de-la-loire/nantes-44000/nantes-les-enfants-jouent-au-miroir-dans-une-eau-filtree-5921851
[6] https://www.polti.fr/trucs-et-conseils-pour-nettoyer-efficacement-les-miroirs
[7] https://bioglobe.co.uk/why-is-my-pond-water-turning-green-overnight/
[8] https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserReviews-g187079-d5400497-r351478793-The_Water_Mirror-Bordeaux_Gironde_Nouvelle_Aquitaine.html
[9] https://www.thehotelwashington.com/washington-dc-travel-guide/when-will-the-washington-dc-reflecting-pool-reopen
[10] https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/miroir-deau
[11] https://www.bordeaux-citytours.com/en/heritage/the-place-de-la-bourse-and-the-miroir-deau/

It's almost like shallow water and warm weather are ideal for algae growth, so even the Miroir d'eau is susceptible and needs constant maintenance … the lesson being, reality doesn't care about your feelings and politics…

"But it should be remembered that the US Navy is what keeps the free world…free."

Broaden that to the US military.

I hope it isn't changing.

@Incavart77:
I welcomed that war under the premise that the Iranian people would benefit from a regime change. The Ayatollah regime is an ongoing rape of the Persian culture.

The support of Israel, which is the only demoracy in that region, was paramount for every German government after WW2. Now I am unsure if Netanjahu and his ultra-orthodox government is fighting for a Great Israel with failed states as neighbours.

The USA were the only superpower after the end of the CCCP. You are absolutly right, American (sea) power was one of the central pillars keeping global commerce open and the international order functioning. Trump is not interested in a functioning international order btw.
The illegal war against Iran was not in the interest of the USA according to the 2025 National security strategy.

Now it is visable that the Emperor has no clothes, the US Navy was not able to keep the Strait of Hormuz open. The US forces could not protect the Arab states from getting immense damage by Iranian drones. This will have long term consequences.

@Legion 4: I was refering to november 1918 and June 1919
As the German chancellor said: the USA got humiliated.

Again, listen to POTUS himself. Watch the weary facial expressions ,the body language as well. And hear the words. Giving Iran all that money is now okay? And still, Obama is criticized for the relatively piddling amount he returned to them? Listen to Republicans in Congress. Listen to Fox News pundits.

Refunding the mullahs at this level is ….a great idea! And they need to have some missiles! How can we not wonder what is going on here? This is TDS at its most virulent. You cannot put lipstick on this pig. Until we find someone who can go the distance against Iran's radical leaders and terrorist armed forces, not just its regular army or navy, to end the reign of the fanatic zealots and their minions, this war goes on as it has for decades. Never mind all the BS vanity projects in DC.

"And they need to have some missiles!" Only a naif would believe that the majority of the (at least) $300 USD billion won't be spent on weapons, nuclear projects & supporting allied terrorist groups.
The MOU was an act of desperation.

This is a debacle that will reverberate for years, decades.

Iran War Misconceptions
June 18, 2026

Victor Davis Hanson

American Greatness

The shooting portion of the Iran "War" lasted about 40 days—far shorter than Barack Obama's 2011 congressionally unauthorized seven-month bombing campaign against Libya.

Bill Clinton's unauthorized 78 days of bombing Serbia in 1999 hit bridges, schools, hospitals, monuments, and power plants—far more indiscriminate targeting than anything in the Iran War so far.

No one yet knows the ultimate verdict on the war, given all the economic, military, political, and strategic variables still in play. A memorandum of understanding released this week might end the war, or result in further American strikes—depending on the degree of Iranian concessions and compliance.

But in this confusing, ongoing drama, many fabrications and distortions still circulate.

The Strait of Hormuz was open before the war and is now closed, so the war was a failure.

The Strait was open because an appeased Iran had no reason to close it—given that no nation on earth dared to end its nuclear dreams of dominating the Middle East, funding anti-Western terrorists, and threatening Europe and the U.S.

So the rub was always disarming Iran and then dealing with its inevitable desperate strategy of closing the Strait.

Trump's agreement will simply be a copy of Obama's earlier Iran deal.

Obama dealt from a position of abject weakness. Iran assumed correctly that Obama would offer endless concessions and cash, while never considering force.

Does Obama really believe that Iran in 2015 was stronger than it is now after 40 days of intense American, Israeli, and Gulf state bombing?

Trump is dealing with a bankrupt Iran, a neutered military, a restive Iranian street, a wounded regime, and the specter that the U.S. can do whatever it wishes militarily to a shattered Iran for the foreseeable future.

The U.S. is bereft of allies and strategically isolated in the war.

During the war, the unthinkable occurred when Israel de facto became an ally of the Arab Gulf monarchies. Other than a few rogue nations and Arab terrorist clients—the weakened Hezbollah, the crushed Hamas, and the wary Houthis—Iran has zero friends.

Neither China nor Russia offered Iran much in the way of aid, other than satellite imagery and some smuggled supplies. Both lost their once-prominent positions among clients in the Middle East who deeply resented their siding with Persian Shiite theocrats over Arab oil suppliers and arms buyers.

Israel has more combat aircraft than the United Kingdom, France, and Germany. The Gulf monarchies do so as well. Both Israel and the Gulf states have been flying bombing missions against Iran. There is a far greater chance of Arab-Israeli rapprochement after the war than before it.

The war has torn apart the Republican Party, ensured a Democratic landslide in the midterms, and endangered a Republican victory in 2028.

Antisemitism, neo-isolationism, and conspiracy theories were already the mark of the apostate right. But almost all of the new MAGA critics have lost the trust of Republicans and increasingly are either mirror-imaging the Left in Never Trump fashion or drifting off into Nick Fuentes nihilism.

Trump may lose House and/or Senate seats in the midterms—as happened in 38 of the last 41 midterms since the Civil War.

Yet there are still well over four months before the elections. If Trump keeps the Strait open—either by force, negotiations, or through a mixture of both—oil prices will likely drop before November, given increased production worldwide.

If Iran is rendered militarily incapable of posing a major threat to the region and the world and is forced to accept American terms, then Republicans may enter November quite competitively.

The Iran War was a betrayal of MAGA's commitment to no "forever wars."

The second Iran intervention, following up on the initial June 2025 bombing, was certainly an optional and preemptive action. In that sense, it was akin to Trump's first-term Soleimani and Baghdadi hits, the destruction of ISIS, and the response to the Wagner Group attack.

Yet there still are no ground troops in Iran. The loss of 13 soldiers, while tragic, is less than the two-week fatal-accident rate of the military.

There is a good chance that less than six weeks of active bombing achieved far more than 20 years in Afghanistan and a decade in Iraq—at a fraction of the human and fiscal costs.

The key to negotiating an end to the war is to always remember that Iran's regime—its theocrats, the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, military leaders, and elected officials—has no history of telling the truth or abiding by any agreement it signs.

So the only means of enforcing concessions is to use disproportionate force each time Iran inevitably violates the terms of the armistice.

Spot on …

But it should be remembered that the US Navy is what keeps the free world…free.

Yes … thank you … that is a fact …

Broaden that to the US military.

I hope it isn't changing.

Yes that will never change … Regardless of what the Chicoms and islamists say or hope. I didn't mention Russia … save for their nukes. They are a "paper bear". Russia's day in sun as a world power has set … And not in only my opinion …

I was refering to november 1918 and June 1919
As the German chancellor said: the USA got humiliated.

Yes we all study history and know the German chancellor's predilections.

However read or reread what Inca77 and Ochion posted and I quoted …

On a side note, in what seems like a lifetime ago, I remember being a police recruit and tasked by my sergeant with hunting down rogue ducklings that had fallen out of the reflecting pool and reuniting them in the water with their mother's. Ahh memories.

That was very nice of you … It is SOP in many organizations, especially in the military. FNGs get the 💩 jobs. Been there … did that …

Regardless … it was nice to help out the baby ducks. Like fireman get cats out of trees, rescue animals from other hazards, etc. And as we also see LEOs do similar …

I like most animals better than people …

"Tha an t-uisge glan agus fuar "

FWIW I do have a working knowledge of Klingon … Which has nothing to do with the topic … just say'n …

that doesnt mean Iran are suddenly the good guys; by almost any measure, they remain a menace. The fault lies more with permissions and executions rather than whether Iran has proven some moral superiority.

Bingo !!! How can some not see that ?

This will have long term consequences.

Yes … the consequences are Iran will no longer be a threat to the traffic in the Strait, and the region in general …

FYI – Watching the news now. Iran just said because the IDF is still attacking Hezbollah. So Iran's remaining regime just said the Strait is closed … again … dumb move.

How can it be really closed ? Since the USN, USAF, US ARMY[AH-64s], etc. were blockading the Strait. All Iran could do is fire the odd angry drone or missile. As much of their inventory was used or destroyed.

If this report is correct … and I believe it is. This is SOP for Iran's lunatic islamists.

Pay attention … there is a war going on. I'm not the only one to say this. The MOU was basically to get the Straits open and get the world economy. The US leadership knowing full well Iran would continue to lie, cheat, etc.

The MOU is not a bidding contract … it is a framework for more discussion to make an actual agreement …

So again … the US knowing Iran's islamsits "MO", predilections, etc. Is fully prepared to "finish" the job. Which again as I and others have said will happen and remove Iran's islamists threats and freeing up the 80% of Iran's population that are suffering from the lunatics of this fanatical islamist regime.

As some would say, Iran's islamists will "reap the whirlwind" … very soon I'd think.

No PAR

The pool was brought up, with all the others things, to point out that it is a constant barrage of attacks about EVERYTHING this President does or tries to do, by the LEFT, their pet media and of course many of those it seems on TMP.

It is constant and unending and everything.. absolutely EVERYTHING.

They easily forget the failures of their heroes, or more to the point, ignore!

They have attacked the Iran conflict since day one! Same with the previous bombing. Same with venezuela. Same with sinking narco boats. Same with extracting illegal aliens. Same with Canada, Panama, Cuba, Greenland…. Same with tariffs. same with making NATO pay more. Same with the Ukraine and aid. Same now with this agreement for an agreement. On and On and On and this is just TMP, not the media and the rest.

YES it is TDA! You lost, get over it. Live with the consequences. Some of us did with Clinton(s), Carter 🤮🤬, Obama 🤮🤮, Biden 🤮😴 even Bush 2 who I voted for. As to leaders in most of the rest of the world complaining here. My view on most of your leaders. 🤬🤮😴.

As to the pool and TDA. If more proof was necessary.

CNN paid for an analysis of the water. 🙄 why? To ridicule of course! Did they do the same after Obama's 32 million renovations? 😂😏

Where are the stories about Obama stiffing minority contractors for his library? The one they could have used as Saruman's castle in Lord of the Rings? 🦗

During the ceremony they have a tribute to the "indigenous people".

"At the opening ceremony of the Obama Presidential Center in Chicago, organizers honored Indigenous communities through an official land acknowledgment. Valerie Jarrett, CEO of the Obama Foundation, delivered these remarks, honoring the Anishinaabe, Council of Three Fires, Ojibwe, Odawa, and Potawatomi nations.

Official Land AcknowledgmentDuring her opening speech, Jarrett took a moment to recognize the original inhabitants of the land where the center was built. She honored the original stewards of the Chicago region, including the Council of the Three Fires and several other Native Nations. The Obama Foundation has an Official Land Acknowledgement that pays tribute to the area's rich Indigenous history and emphasizes its commitment to uplifting Indigenous voices."

If you care so much, give them the title to all of it instead!

Money speaks louder than meaningless virtue signaling! 🤣

I don't see it lasting!

CBS

"6:35 AM
Israeli military says it attacked 80 Hezbollah targets in Lebanon

Israeli military said Friday that it had struck at least 80 Hezbollah targets across southern Lebanon as fighting between the two sides reignited in the first major test of the fragile U.S.-Iran agreement aimed at ending the war.

"Overnight, the IDF struck more than 80 command centers, terrorists, launch positions, and additional terrorist infrastructure sites," the Israel Defense Forces said in a statement

The statement said "dozens" of Hezbollah fighters were killed in the strikes, which the IDF called a response to "repeated, ongoing, and blatant violations of the ceasefire" by the U.S.- and Israeli-designated terrorist group based in Lebanon.

Lebanon's state-run National News Agency said at least 18 people were killed in the attacks on the country."

OVI +1

SB +1

Again
&
Again …

"@35thOVI: Maybe it would have been more obvious to you what really was going on if Trump would have signed the document in a rail car in a wood in Compiègne?"

I understood your "attempt".

When he signs in Reims, France and Berlin and does it unconditionally, get back with us.

35thOVI +1

@Ochion

"Someone had to say it."

Good thing the U.S. was the lead in Asia in WW2, otherwise that snide remark would be in Japanese. 😏

Legion, SB +1

Incavart in your response to Dogtail +1

Just can't keep up:

"9:11 AM
Israel and Hezbollah agree to a ceasefire, diplomat briefed on the deal says

Three diplomats briefed on the agreement told CBS News on Friday that Israel and Hezbollah had agreed to a ceasefire in Lebanon, as first reported by the Reuters news agency.

The agreement was scheduled to begin at 9 a.m. Eastern on Friday, according to Reuters."

"IRGC outlet urges Tehran to close Hormuz, end US MoU implementation
54 minutes ago

Listen to this article
The IRGC-affiliated Tasnim news agency called on Iranian authorities to close the Strait of Hormuz and end implementation of the Iran-US MoU, citing continued Israeli attacks in southern Lebanon.

"Every minute that the Strait of Hormuz remains open is a major loss," Tasnim wrote, adding that if the United States manages to relieve energy pressure on itself, "it will become even more brazen and aggressive."

The outlet directly urged officials to act, writing: "Close the strait and contain America at this very first step."

"Should officials not immediately end the implementation of the MoU and close the Strait of Hormuz?" Tasnim wrote. "Should there not be a powerful response to America and Israel so that their calculations do not shift further against the Islamic Republic and the resistance?"
"

He should just stop thinking of them as normal humans and treat them as the rabid fanatical murderous religious zealots they are, individuals who have never left the 600's behind, nor ever will.

Only Chevron can relieve the energy pressure on the US, such as it is.

ISIS is not gone, it has decentralized and grows again. You cannot back off rooting these guys out. And we are obviously going to win a conventional war every time. But that's not how they roll. From Hezbollah to Hamas recruits will keep coming. Meet the new bosses, same as the old bosses. They must be undermined from within with elite covert ops, cyber and psychological warfare, and dirty pool when necessary. IMO. Otherwise this is what happens. Not even VD Hanson can explain this away except to reference Obama. But this time the buck stops only one place.

And no @#$& money for them. Ever. Save it for the people of Iran held hostage.

OVI +1

ISIS is not gone, it has decentralized and grows again. You cannot back off rooting these guys out. And we are obviously going to win a conventional war every time. But that's not how they roll. From Hezbollah to Hamas recruits will keep coming. Meet the new bosses, same as the old bosses. They must be undermined from within with elite covert ops, cyber and psychological warfare, and dirty pool when necessary.

Every opportunity that comes about. Striking islmamsts everywhere and any time is the "fix" for these bad guys. Even it takes time.

+1 Tortorella.

No simple bombing attack was *ever* going to defeat the Iranians. Whoever devised that "strategy" should be fired for gross incompetence.along with whoever decided to reward the Iranians with billions of dollars "compensation".

"From Hezbollah to Hamas recruits will keep coming."

And this is the issue with the half-baked idea of periodically hitting the Iranians in some sort of 'Forever War'.
You will stir up animosity to levels never before reached. What worries me is not an Iranian ballistic missile but some inconspicuous Zealot with a suitcase containing a 'dirty bomb' arriving in a US city.

From Rescue Mission to What, Exactly?

""Help is on its way," said Trump as the Islamic Republic was massacring the protesters in January 2026 – a crackdown that by many accounts killed tens of thousands in two days. Weeks later, as American and Israeli aircraft struck Tehran, he told Iranians directly: "the hour of freedom is at hand." More than three months later, the conflict has entered its bargaining phase, and as announced by Trump today (June 14th) an initial deal has been made to be signed on June 19th. The items on the table are uranium enrichment, post-war investment, the Strait of Hormuz, regional conflict, frozen funds, and sanction relief. The gross violations of human rights are not.

Any account of the Iran war written now has to begin with humility. The situation is still unfolding. The public record is incomplete. Thousands of Iranians have been arrested on charges of treason since the start of the war and many have already been executed. Leaks may be self-serving, battlefield claims may be exaggerated, and reports about covert plans may later prove wrong, partial, or deliberately planted. In the fog of war, certainty is usually the first casualty.

Nevertheless, one clear trajectory is already visible. A war partially justified as a liberation of the Iranian populace has steadily devolved into a fully transactional negotiations with the remnants of the regime's leadership. Trump's subsequent declaration that regime change had already been "achieved" could be viewed as a way to exit the liberation frame without admitting it had failed…"

link

Armand

Wow it took 16 straight posts to try and defend Trump treaty.
I think thou protest too much!

"And this is the issue with the half-baked idea of periodically hitting the Iranians in some sort of 'Forever War'.
You will stir up animosity to levels never before reached. What worries me is not an Iranian ballistic missile but some inconspicuous Zealot with a suitcase containing a 'dirty bomb' arriving in a US city."

Made by someone living in the perceived safety of Australia. With little likelihood of impact from radical fundamentalist Islam (at least he seems to believe). Obviously has never read their holy books, nor studied the history of Islam, since they started their conquest of the non-Muslim world. A war that had never ended and continues today.

Where would Europe be today if Spain had not stood up to them and drove them back. Austria in front of Vienna? Russia driving them back? They realized the danger, but obviously many in the world lost it.

People in Nigeria, Cameroon, and Chad wish people understood.

They need nothing to stir them up or an excuse to kill the infidel. The verses are in their writing and preached to them by their radicalized Mullahs. (Even in the U.S.).

🤔
Or maybe it's just as simple as hate and envy of the U.S.

🤔

Or maybe it was the Australians falling DOWN today UNDER the feet of the U.S. men's soccer team. Oh! And Scotland going down to Morocco. Two hard blows for him, I'm sure.

"Wow it took 16 straight posts to try and defend Trump treaty.
I think thou protest too much!"

You expected something different?

Spiro Agnew wrote, "Never underestimate a person's ability to defend the indefensible when loyalty completely overrules their logic."

Tango those responsible for freeing Iran, already live in Iran.

I repeat what I posted earlier:

————

"The Iranians overthrew their "tyrant" before "without" foreign help.

"Iran (1979): The Islamic Revolution was entirely domestic. Millions of Iranians protested, went on strike, and successfully forced the Shah's government to collapse."

Ok, I'll give you, the Shah wasn't as bad as Radical fundamentalist Islam leaders. But that's NoT what our press and academics said.

Did they need weapons?

"The Iranian people overthrew the Shah's heavily armed regime by using economic paralysis, sheer numerical superiority, and tactical defections within the military itself, proving that weapons are only effective if soldiers are willing to pull the trigger."

I'd add an incompetent US President as well.

So the current mess was the responsibility of the Iranian people themselves.

Well darn!

The old "the grass always looks greener".

Is there not military other than the Guard in Iran?

Well yes: The Artesh (Conventional Army)

Now why wouldn't they help the downtrodden people again if they rise up? 🤔 Are they not made up of the sons and fathers of the people?

The U.S. and Israel even went in and softened things up this time.

So why are they demanding, like so many others, "free us?"

Did they lose the backbone beforehand and what's left is too afraid? Willing to suffer? OR really support the government? 😱

Look at Haiti

"Initial Uprising (1791): The initial, coordinated rebellions in the northern plantations were indeed fought with whatever was on hand—machetes, hoes, and fire. The rebels quickly raided armories and defeated colonial militias to secure proper firearms."

Spartacus?

In other words, get off your knees and try! Well unless in their hearts they are mostly radical fundamentalist Muslims too."

OVI +1

Wow it took 16 straight posts to try and defend Trump treaty.
I think thou protest too much!

So you think it is OK for Iran's islamic lunatics to get deployable nukes ? You know how nukes work and what they do right ?

No simple bombing attack was *ever* going to defeat the Iranians.

Simple ? Pay attention … the US and IDF can put ordinance pretty much anywhere they want, anytime they want. Iran has few effective ADA systems. Because the vast, vast majority were destroyed. Yes they still can get the odd angry shot off. But for the most part they can do little to stop the incoming. But lose more assets and die …

Whoever devised that "strategy" should be fired for gross incompetence.

It is part of an overall strategy. And so far, it has laid waste, death and destruction to almost everything Iran's islamists had/have.

Frankly I don't care how long it may take. Just like with the GWoT as long as we are killing off and destroying islamic terrorists/jihadis, their assets and supporters as often as possible in as many as possible should be SOP.

along with whoever decided to reward the Iranians with billions of dollars "compensation".

How many times the US leadership has to say Iran will get NO US taxpayers' $. USD

And any relief of any sort will not be going to Iran unless they follow the USA's requirements. So far they are not …

Get it the MOU is not any sort of bidding agreement, treaty, etc.

Make it a little simpler … this MOU was part of a bigger concept to give many on the planet some relief from Iran's extortion. Holding oil as the hostage …

Plus since many in Congress are on their version of a jihad. To do anything to get at least one more seat in the midterm.

And Iran knows this … And those in Congress, etc. by being so vehement in this quest for power. To destroy the POTUS and his admin, etc. They don't care if it plays into Iran's cause and yes is de facto support for the islamic lunatics. And not just in Iran.

Of course, many in Congress, the media, etc. don't have anyone in harm's way because of their actions. They will lose nothing.

As with the illegal open border policy. They knew with allowing everyone into America. With little to No vetting etc. Was their diabolical plan to gain power. They didn't care how many American citizens die because of all drug runners, human traffickers[and their "slaves"], gangers, cartel members, terrorists, enemy agents/spies, etc., etc.

Stopping Iran's islamist regime from getting nukes, supporting islamic terrorism and slaughtering their own people …

As was closing the illegal open border. It saved US lives.

In both cases it was to save lives. Except for the islamists in Iran and elsewhere.

It won't be long as the POTUS, Pentagon etc. knowns that Iran cannot be trusted. The plan will be to initiate kinetic actions and finish off the islamist regime.

There are a lot more targets[including C3] to be serviced in Iran. Including some infrastructure. And Iran is still losing $ everyday with the USA's actions on a number of levels.

I do love how the MSM always points out Israeli infractions first, before pointing out the radical fundamentalist Muslims started it.

Short truce.

"6:07 AM
Fighting continues in Lebanon, state media says

Israeli strikes on southern Lebanon on Saturday killed at least seven people, including two children, hours after reports emerged of a ceasefire agreement and threatening an interim agreement between the United States and Iran to end the war in the Middle East.

Lebanon's National News Agency said the strikes hit the southern town of Nabatieh and nearby villages. At least seven people remained trapped under the rubble, it said. Lebanon's civil defense agency said 16 people were killed in the Nabatieh area, where an AFP photographer saw smoke rising over the city after strikes.

An Israeli military official said Hezbollah had fired more than 50 projectiles at Israeli forces in southern Lebanon overnight, prompting the military to start targeting the militant group there. The official spoke anonymously in line with regulations.

Hezbollah has not officially claimed any attacks on Israel or its troops in Lebanon since the ceasefire was announced.

Mediators were scrambling to halt the fighting between Israel and the militant Lebanese Hezbollah group, after a heavy exchange on Friday killed at least 47 people in Lebanon and four Israeli soldiers.

By The Associated Press, AFP"

How many times did we try to say Obama gave Iran no US tax dollars? It was made to sound like he personally flew the plane with bundles of cash. The double standards of today's events are all the more remarkable for all the crazy tough talk about destroying a civilization, etc. Now this. As an MOU it carries zero weight in any case. As any mullah will tell you.

Tort he did give US money. Not all, but yes some

Example

" In 2016, the Obama administration transferred $1.7 USD billion in cash to Iran. However, this was not a new payment or a "gift". It was the settlement of a decades-old financial dispute. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

The transaction was structured as follows:
* Background: In 1979, the government of Iran paid the United States $400 USD million for military equipment that was never delivered due to the Islamic Revolution. The money sat in a U.S. trust fund. [1, 2, 3, 4]
* The Settlement: To resolve a long-standing case at the Iran-U.S. Claims Tribunal, the Obama administration agreed to refund the original $400 USD million, along with $1.3 USD billion in interest. [1, 2, 3]
* The Delivery: The settlement was paid in foreign cash (such as Swiss francs and euros) because strict U.S. and international sanctions prevented regular bank transfers with Iran. [1, 2]
* Controversy: The initial $400 USD million was delivered by airplane at the exact same time Iran released American prisoners, which led critics to argue it was a ransom payment. The Obama administration maintained that the prisoner release and the legal settlement were separate negotiations. [1, 2]"