"Is it over?" Topic

What I posted on my FB page this morning:

Updated intel on the AH-64 that went down in the Strait of Hormuz yesterday.

Was hit by an Iranian drone.
Did a water landing in the Strait.
The 2 crewmen were in the water with flotation devises.
The US launched a surface drone/boat. No crew, just AI, etc. …

This boat is named the Corsair. It has no humans on it, it is autonomous.

24ft long
35 knots top speed
1000-mile range
Carries about 1000lbs

It looks like a small fishing boat, with a covered bridge.
Was used in Ukraine[of course] against the Russian Navy.
Again, this is an amazing piece of tech, will save US lives. And should be able to be configured for different offensive/defensive missions.

The US executed about 20 strikes on targets mostly on Iran's coastline. Doing significant damage to Iran's remaining assets.

Iran said they launched some attacks on US locations in some of the allied Arab nations across the Strait from Iran.
The US will do a counterstrike if they have not already, on more of Iran's assets and possibly some infrastructure. E.g. power plant, oil facilities, etc.

All Ret. high ranking GENs, ADMs, etc. have said. That we must strike and remove Iran's islamists threat. Again, ensuring they will have no nukes, can't supply other islamic terrorists, can never interfer with shipping in the Persian Gulf, etc. As well as freeing Iran's people from these moslem medieval barbaric savages.

We don't have the intel the POTUS, Pentagon, etc. has. So we really don't know why the US is not starting immediate counterstrikes. And ending these savage murders.

But I and others believe Iran's islamic regime will be "reaping the whirlwind" soon … The POTUS told all it will happen …

As we see last night and today the USA is striking targets in Iran. Destroying or damaging critical assets …

We will see what Trump says after the years rollllllllllll by.

He did exactly say the actual war was his biggest mistake.

"The "Worst Mistake

"While Obama defended the initial intervention to save civilian lives, he later admitted that his biggest failure was not lying about the timeline, but failing to plan for the aftermath. In 2016, he stated that leaving Libya to descend into factional chaos and militia rule after Gaddafi's fall was the "worst mistake" of his presidency."

But tell Barrack he is wrong, it wasn't his worst. 😉

By the way:

"President Obama stated that active U.S. military involvement in the Libyan conflict would last "days, not weeks". He gave this timeframe to bipartisan congressional leaders in March 2011, explaining that the U.S. would subsequently transition to a supporting, back-seat role in the coalition."
…

😱
"Critics argue the phrasing was a political maneuver to avoid the War Powers Act and public backlash:

Continued Hostilities: Even though NATO took the lead, American military assets—including remotely piloted Predator drones—continued to fire missiles and participate in active combat operations for months.

The Total Timeline: The entire military intervention ultimately lasted seven months until Muammar Gaddafi was captured and killed in October 2011."

…

Respectfully, that feels like partisan whataboutism.

Whether Obama mishandled Libya, Bush mishandled Iraq, or Biden mishandled Afghanistan is not really the point. The existence of past planning failures is not a license to recommit the same category of mistakes. If anything, the disasters of the last twenty years should make people *more* insistent on clarity regarding objectives, end states, timelines, costs, and assumptions, not less.

I am not sure the Libya example makes the point you think it does. If anything, it reinforces the concern about shifting objectives and mission creep. The initial public objective in Libya was humanitarian protection and a no-fly zone. The eventual practical objective became regime removal, and Obama later said the failure to plan for the aftermath was his worst mistake.

That is more or less the exact concern some of us are raising here.

Not:

"Wars never evolve."

Of course they do. But when objectives evolve, people are entitled to ask whether the new objective is being clearly articulated and whether there is an actual political end state attached to it.

And "the government knows more than us" is true in every war. It was true in Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan. That fact alone does not answer the strategy question.

Additionally, Libya and Iran are not remotely comparable in terms of stakes or escalation risk, which is exactly why repeating the same ambiguity about end states would be even less excusable here.

What concerns me is the reasoning behind the comparison. Using prior planning failures to justify ambiguity in the present strikes me as the opposite of wisdom. The lesson of Libya, Iraq, and Afghanistan is not:

"Trust the process because leadership knows more than you.

It is that governments, intelligence communities, and even highly capable security forces can be wrong, overconfident, or overtaken by events. And it is incumbent on an engaged citizenry to ask harder questions when the stakes are even higher. It seems to me that some people on here like to claim that if a citizenry doesn't challenge their governments aggression, then they deserve the consequences. Know anyone who has repeated that claim?

And if the answer to every concern becomes:

"Trust the classified plan,"

then we are drifting uncomfortably close to the kind of blind faith we criticize in ideological systems, including the Iranian regime itself.

Thus, skepticism is not disloyalty. In a representative system, it is part of accountability. And yes, Day 102 seems like a reasonable time to ask.

You missed the point.

All the complaints about the goal out here on TMP.

Anyone who listened to the Presidents election campaign, knows this was one of his campaign promises. It should not be a surprise, yet so many act as if it is. 🤔

"While he campaigned heavily on keeping the U.S. out of "endless wars," he always explicitly carved out an exception for Iran's nuclear ambitions, stating that preventing them from getting a bomb was his "number one" priority. [1, 2]

What Trump Repeatedly Said on the Campaign Trail
Throughout his runs for office, Trump framed his entire Iran policy around a singular, non-negotiable demand:[1]

* The "One Thing" Rule: On the campaign trail, Trump frequently told crowds, "I only wanted one thing from Iran—no nuclear weapon," and "That was the only thing—the one thing I said, 'You cannot have.'"[1]

* The Absolute Red Line: He repeatedly used variations of the exact phrase, "No, they can't have nukes," arguing that a nuclear-armed Iran would be "too destructive, too powerful" and "very dangerous for the world." [1]

* Willingness to Deal: He frequently stated that he wanted Iran to be a "tremendously successful, rich country," but always attached the same condition: "…but they can't have a nuclear weapon."
"

What did he say when this started:

"This exact campaign promise is what his administration pointed to when launching military action against Iran. During an Oval Office address, Trump reiterated that stopping Iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon was the core justification for the war, stating: "You cannot give Iran a nuclear weapon. This is all about a nuclear weapon. They cannot have the nuclear bomb, and they're not going to have the nuclear bomb."
"
He states this goal constantly.

We don't know what Intel the administration had beforehand. We don't know any intel they currently have.

Based on this "goal" I could even claim current victory.

But that would be silly and petty. 😏

The conflict continues until he is happy with what he gets in negotiations with the evil radical fundamentalist Islamic regime.

You might be unhappy with the war.

I'm unhappy the war does not go far enough.

Maybe it's best for the world that we all stay unhappy.

What we've hit the last 2 days

"Coastal and Strategic Sites: Multiple military facilities, surveillance radar systems, and air defense ground control stations, particularly in and around the Strait of Hormuz and the port city of Bandar Abbas.

Interior Targets: Explosions were reported in the capital, Tehran. According to the Iranian Revolutionary Guard, these strikes hit a manufacturing complex, local Guard bases, and military barracks.

Naval Blockade Assets: U.S. Central Command (CENTCOM) focused on disabling Iranian radars and defenses that were being used to identify and attack commercial vessels attempting to transit the Strait of Hormuz."

So Iran's abilities to respond and defend specific air space.

Interested to see what the real targets in those areas will be if it continues.

Please Let Israel help. They take out such interesting targets.

Please see 12 posts up from this one on Chuck and Iran. 🙄

"Schumer blasts Trump's 'disastrous' plan to take over Iran's Kharg Island
Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer blasted President Donald Trump's statement calling for the U.S. to take over Iran's Kharg Island on Thursday.

Schumer made the statement while speaking on the Senate floor, calling the war in Iran a "fiasco."

"On Iran for weeks, Donald Trump, Pete Hegseth and Marco Rubio have insisted their disastrous war in Iran is over. How stupid do they think the American people are? This morning, Trump said he plans to take Kharg Island, which could even mean putting American boots on the ground," Schumer said.

"It doesn't take a military genius to see that Trump's fiasco of a war with Iran never ended. Not when American, not with American helicopters being shot down. Not when American when American bases are being attacked and American troops are coming under fire," he added."

OVI +1

"Trust the classified plan,"

Again the POTUS, JCS, etc. knows more about what is really going on. On the ground, in the air, at sea and under the sea. Without more release of intel. Any comments are just speculation. That is a fact at least from a military aspect.

then we are drifting uncomfortably close to the kind of blind faith we criticize in ideological systems, including the Iranian regime itself.

Not blind faith, IMO and others. Based on the US Military's recent successes in combat at tactical, operational, and even strategic levels. Plus the US Military has displayed some very high-tech pieces of equipment that really were amazing. That many in the world don't have.

So what do some thinks the POTUS, etc. should say in an unclassified environment ? An environment that within the US Congress and media is very negative. Plus many on the street only see high gas prices, etc. They are not savvy enough or just don't care what Iran having deployable nukes would mean for the region and many other places in the world.

Thus, skepticism is not disloyalty. In a representative system, it is part of accountability. And yes, Day 102 seems like a reasonable time to ask.

I'd say with the 5th Column in the Congress and media. They can't be trusted. Probably not any more than the remains of Iran islamist leaders.

From a military POV … those are facts. To not take those into consideration could cost US lives. We care about our people. Iran does not …

FWIW Ret. US Army GENs Kean and Kellog as well as Ret USMC COL Jernigan pretty much said everything, I have been saying and more. Or more like I am saying all they are saying. But again even a Combat Arms ARMY CPT with over a decade on active duty with 4 Combat Infantry Bns can see, judge, etc. with some level of accuracy.

And yes dare I say I probably better than many here who never have similar credentials. And yes, I'm being a jerk pulling the Vet Card. But I think that is worth mentioning.

Now what is really beginning to annoy me, and others is this has gone on much too long. Even if Iran goes for a deal as the POTUS outlined. The possibility of Iran's theocracy actually following the points of that deal is very, very unlikely. As those Ret senior officers and others have said a number of times.

E.g. as some thought they would with the JPCOA. That was a bad poorly thought-out, naďve, etc. deal. And relied on Iran following the deal. Which they wouldn't … That is the same situation here.

I have no idea why the POTUS is playing the waiting game with these radical islamist murderers. He and everybody knows that is Iran's SOP, predilection, etc. That is how they do business.

Again none of us know what the POTUS, JCS, CIA, etc., etc. know all the facts of this situation. However, it seems many lead by the historical facts that Iran can't be trusted. And heavy continuing strikes have to commence. To do what is how many wars are won. Destroy the enemy's capabilities, assets, C3I, etc. Break their will to resist, their will to continue the conflict, etc.

We know these islamic hardliners would rather die than give into the Great Satan, the infidels …

As all those Ret. senior officers have been saying … Iran can't be trusted … It is time to end that islamic regime. Which means more death and destruction to rid the world of these medieval butchers.

And yes it may take more than 102 days …

As we saw with WWII Imperial Japan. The US had to use a terrible new weapon, twice. We won't and don't have to do that in this case. However, who knows what classified devices we have? Regardless, the USA's very accurate, very destructive, very lethal weapons we have been using seems to be able to do all that is needed.

Again what does the US gov't have to say to appease the detractors ? I'm betting not much will satisfy some … However the total destruction on Iran's islamist regime will have to be the path to ending this conflict.

Plus I pretty much can safely say, based on the USA's passed conflicts with moslems, islamists, jihadis, etc. There are plans to end the regime, how to do it and how to assist getting a new friendly gov't in Tehran, etc.

35thOVI +1 – but remember that we're no longer not even a Facebook society, too many of us are TikTok doom scrollers and Instagrammers with a 10-30 second attention span, for whom the 1min it takes to heat up your coffee in the microwave is too long… and a 24x7x365 media cycle that demands OUTRAGE! constantly to get clicks.

In this societal construct, wars are to be resolved instantly without any discomfort. If the public can't even stomache a sustained low intensity war, what are the chances they'd have an instant's worth of resolve for a high intensity war with China? And China is clearly using the Western Left to manipulate Western public opinion towards that end.

Do I wish this were over on a best outcome? Yes. I think the Israelis were overconfident in their capability to do regime change. Despite the damage done the regime's Nazi die-hards don't want to give up and won't cut a deal to get rid of all their nukes program. So I guess the only thing to do is keep removing the die-hards until what we have left are more survival oriented regime leaders.

Legion, SB +1

Yes we live in a video game world.

"I defeated House Targaryen in 5 hours. Iran should be over by now! They don't even have dragons!!🐉 " 😡

And now POTUS has announced tonight's strikes. …before they take place. Hegseth has done the same. They think this will force a deal before hand? Iran will not surrender.

Obviously anyone questioning the "brilliance" of the plan thus far or questioning the content of various social media postings by the Commander in Chief has TDS. Obviously.

Prince Alberts Revenge – question all you want, but also know that you don't know what's really going on. None of us do – was there a "credible" faction to negotiate with, and that's the issue they have collapsed? Dunno. Are we letting them expose existing assets to be smashed? Dunno. Y'all were totally wrong about Venezuela -- fuliminating about AMERICAN PIRACY! because we attacked Maduro-regime drug boats and siezed Venezuelan "ghost fleet" oil tankers, and being dragged into an endless war… then one of the most amazing military ops ever -- far more significant in scope and impact from the one that took out bin Laden, we nabbed Maduro from his fuher bunker and threw him into an American jail.

24hrs. Done. History changed, Venezuela changed. China and Russia and Iran lost an ally, the world is a little safer and more stable without Maduro exporting chaos and drugs. Now Venezuela, which dominated the news, has faded from view as an issue.

And the opening moves against Iran were likewise brilliant, the Iranian military dismantled with impressive speed and efficiency. Did we get everything? Obviously not – recall in WW2 the Germans scrambled to launch all their V1 and V2 rockets before the allies destroyed or captured their launch sites. Nazis wanna Nazi, so some will cling to power until they die, and would rather rule over ashes than surrender.

SBminisguy: You make things perfectly clear. None of us really understand what's going on so we shouldn't question what we do see or hear.

However "we" (not sure who "y'all are) were totally wrong about Venezuela and you say everything has changed there but do you actually know that? Other than Maduro being removed do we actually know the substantive changes? Have drugs stopped flowing from Venezuela?

And you know the military moves against Iran were "brilliant"? How exactly do you know the effectiveness of those moves? How many times have we heard that something was completely destroyed only for us to go back and claim to destroy it again?

Do you know who is negotiating on behalf of the United States with Iran? Have you heard of the name Asim Munir?

As for me, the devil is in the details. An idea can a good one but handled poorly and done for the wrong reasons. Those are my concerns.

SB +1

Will those in here who oppose "everything" (check out those threads on TMP related to the subjects you mention. Names all look familiar?) the President does, be happy? 😆 😂🤣

Will I think it's tough enough? Doubtful. I wouldn't have been happy unless a foot was on the head of the last radical fundamentalist Muslim leader in Iran as they signed the treaty in their own blood 🩸 and afterward, the sword came down on his neck.

But I've made no secret of how I feel about them.

No one will probably be happy on all sides and sometimes those are the best treaties.

But!! I would not have stopped bombing, until their signatures were on the papers. (Preferably in their own blood. 😏).

But the market is ecstatic. Oil has dropped about $3 USD a barrel.

Funny, that no one has mentioned the reason oil never jumped to the $150 USD or $200 USD the doomsayers predicted.

"The direst long-term forecasts even warned of a potential spike to $200 USD "

The sneaky oil exporting through the strait the whole time and the reason ships "seemed" to allude our blockade. Actually pretty slick. And with their detection apparatus destroyed, Iran knew nothing.

That may be how the drone hit that helicopter. It may have been part of the escorts.

"Based on the fact that discussions with the Islamic Republic of Iran have been brought to the highest level of Iranian leadership and approved, I have, as President of the United States of America, cancelled the scheduled strikes and bombings against Iran this evening. Discussions and final points have been, in both concept and great detail, approved by all parties involved, including the United States, Israel, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Qatar, Turkey, Pakistan, Bahrain, Kuwait, Jordan, Egypt, and others. The Naval Blockade will remain in full force and effect until this Transaction is finalized — Time and place of the signing to be announced shortly.

DONALD J. TRUMP
PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA"

SBminisguy: You make things perfectly clear. None of us really understand what's going on so we shouldn't question what we do see or hear.

Nope, not what I said. You're very vocal in your views, and you're welcome to 'em -- doesn't mean you're correct.

However "we" (not sure who "y'all are) were totally wrong about Venezuela and you say everything has changed there but do you actually know that? Other than Maduro being removed do we actually know the substantive changes? Have drugs stopped flowing from Venezuela?

You want me to disprove myself? Sorry, not how this works -- what a debate is supposed to include is some effort on your part, like, "I disagree, because [provides evidence to back their assertion]." As a simple benchmark, WHY is Venezuela NOT in the news cycle? The Establishment Media hate Trump with a passion and delight in declaring him a failure. Yet they are silent about Venezuela…

And you know the military moves against Iran were "brilliant"? How exactly do you know the effectiveness of those moves? How many times have we heard that something was completely destroyed only for us to go back and claim to destroy it again?

Dunno, man, you want to see failure, fine. You hate Trump, fine. But point out to me any campaign that so thoroughly suppressed and destroyed a national military infrastructure so quickly and with so little loss. Iran was the untouchable giant of the Middle East, armed to the teeth with state of the art Russian and Chinese systems. How'd that turn out so far?

Even the F-15 pilot rescue was amazing, to project spec ops units that deeply into Iran and get everyone out, even if we lost some aircraft? Amazing.

But fanatics are hard to remove from power, as I said, even as the Allies advanced the Germans in WW2 were firing off every damn V weapon they could.

Drill baby drill! U.S. oil is exporting overseas at a record pace as domestic reserves drop. As usual the average guy doesn't have a way to make millions off this. The price of gas is still too high. Inflation just passed 4%. POTUS at 34% approval in today's Economist poll.

So the war needs to end. I will not believe the WH until there is confirmation other than POTUS, but I still do not get why we spent all these bombs to get a deal with a bunch of terrorist thugs who can never be trusted.

"I will not believe the WH until there is confirmation other than POTUS"

I believe we are up to 38 times a deal has been "around the corner", according to Pres.Trump.

link

It is difficult to believe this is other than wishful thinking.

Anything looking like a favourable deal from the US standpoint appears to be highly unlikely:
link

The Iran War is certainly a mess of epic proportions with no end in sight.

Tort,

Price of a gallon still less than a lot of Joe's. But neither here nor there. It's high, but for a better cause than nebulous Green policy.

The people I see and hear complain the most, are the same ones lining up at Starbucks or some other coffee chain. Rarely for a regular coffee. Normally an extra large, calorie laden confectionery dessert drink with a couple squirts of coffee! 😂 Like a Pumpkin Spiced Latte.

Brewed Coffee (Hot/Iced): $3.50 USD – $4.55 USD
Cold Brew & Nitro: $4.50 USD – $5.50 USD
Caffč Latte: $5.45 USD – $6.65 USD
Caramel Macchiato: $5.95 USD – $7.85 USD
Frappuccinos: $5.95 USD – $7.35 USD
Refreshers / Pink Drink: $5.45 USD – $6.00 USD
Protein / Seasonal Drinks: $7.65 USD – $8.45 USD

I pass one on my way to work out. Parking lots full and of course drive thru 10 to 15 cars deep. (Not only wasting money, wasting gas 😱).

Even at my local specialty coffee shop the coffee is 2.20 for a small. If I get one, I'm the only one getting a coffee. 😉

If you looking for a bargain coffee on the run, McDonalds gives 79 cent senior discount small coffee. Not the best, but not the worst. Of course always the Speedway.

But I drink most of mine at home.

Yes tired of hearing how bad things are when they can still get their daily fix.

What about all those buying Cigarettes, Beer or 😱 drugs?

Come on 35th!! Those are priorities!! 😡

FYI check out the story I mentioned on the ships through in secret. Probably won't find it in the MSM.

But I'm sure Trump is lying about it… or is he? 🤔

PSS

"Starbucks is experiencing a strong sales rebound under CEO Brian Niccol. The company recently reported a 6.2% increase in global same-store sales and a 7.1% jump in U.S. same-store sales, bringing overall revenue to $9.5 USD billion. This success is driven by higher customer traffic and operational improvements rather than discounts."
…

"Yes, Starbucks sales are performing exceptionally well, marking a major turning point after a period of stagnation."

Yes, the economy will be bad and times hard, when you see their drive thru and lots empty. "Hey Mister can you spare 12 ounces? ☕️ 😢"

One 8-Mile Island Pumps 90% Of Iran's Oil — And It's Now The Most Valuable Target In The Persian Gulf

link

Armand

Armand, your link was hilarious. My first thought was it was satire but no, just a party-political.

Joe's gas prices was caused by Putin and his war, not to mention the recession we dodged during Covid. But we know oil prices are privately controlled.

As for coffee, fancy for me is Dunkin, otherwise it's Cumberland Farms. I wouldn't know a latte from a hole in the wall.

Tort

Disagree on reason. 😉

Coffee. Dunkin' is interesting. A small senior 2.25 I think. A private doughnut shop down the street, a medium for 2.25 (not a senior) and taste better (community coffee I think they use).

Another sign the economy is not that bad. Check out what people paid for seats at the New York / San Antonio games in NY. Many of them their the ones who tell us how bad it is. 😂

The economy is never bad for the wealthy and well off. No more middle class…the transfer of wealth to a growing number of elites never stops.

The American middle class is not disappearing into poverty, but it is "hollowing out" because significantly more households are climbing into upper-income brackets. However, those remaining in the middle are experiencing economic anxiety due to rising costs for housing and education. – American Enterprise

Upward Mobility: Studies from nonpartisan institutions like the American Enterprise Institute indicate that the shrinking of the "core" middle class is primarily driven by households increasing their earnings. The upper-middle-class has roughly tripled in size over the last few decades, making it one of the largest economic segments in the country.- American Enterprise Income Share: While the upper-middle class has gained purchasing power, the share of aggregate U.S. household income held by the middle class has declined from around 62% in 1970 to about 43% today, largely because wealth gains at the top have outpaced wage growth for average workers. Pew Research

Of course, the lower end of the middle class would be more robust if, over the past 45 years, we had not outsourced 8 million manufaacturing jobs and the resulting loss of 8+ million more jobs as part of "the ripple effect" – AGamer

Tort it's not the elites buying the expensive coffees, the beer, wine, cigarettes, grass and other non-necessities i see, it is the middle class and lower classes.

Although the elitist too buy all of them. Normally the elitist brands though. 😉

They of course have to brag and virtue signal about their:

"My coffee is beyond fair trade, it's direct trade! I only buy from a roaster who flies out to personally shake hands with the indigenous community elders every harvest season. Yes, it is $45 USD for half a pound, but honestly, if you aren't paying that, you are actively exploiting the global south."

"I only drink teas where the leaves are picked before the spring rains. Not machine processed! They must hand-roll the leaves over charcoal! I strictly source my matcha from a generational family farm in Uji. It is a meditative ritual for me, not a cheap caffeine jolt."

"My Beer? I only drink pilsners from a roaster—sorry, a maltster—who still practices traditional floor malting. You can literally taste the industrial shortcuts in everything else."

And the elitist coffee at Starbucks last:

"Hi. I know this is a factory-style operation, but let's try to get as close to a proper, traditional beverage as your equipment allows.

Can I get a double ristretto shot—pulled from whatever your least-roasted, single-origin bean is today? Please tell me you aren't still baking everything to a dark, oily death profile.

And I want that in a traditional 4-ounce macchiato format. To be absolutely clear: I do not mean your 20-ounce, sugar-laden dessert beverage with caramel drizzle. I mean a literal macchiato—two shots of espresso simply 'marked' with a single dollop of micro-foam. No syrups, no pumps, no chemical emulsifiers."

Let's take just one celeb and her posse at the Knicks game. Because everyone picks on her.

" Taylor Swift attended Game 4 alongside members of the band HAIM and actress Mariska Hargitay. Swift drew standard pop-culture commentary for wearing a pun-focused, custom blue-and-orange "Stevie Knicks" T-shirt. "

"Taylor Swift's exact front-row seats on "Celebrity Row" at Madison Square Garden would have cost a standard fan between $140,000 USD and $500,000 USD per ticket on the market."

How many poor and homeless could we have fed for all 4 people?! 🤔 He#l with that money, we could have bought a few some really nice "LARGE homes!

Did she pay? Who knows. But those who did!!!!

Did you ever look at the estimated money wasted on campaigns in a presidential year… to get elected?

I believe just for President and congressional seats alone, 2024 was almost 15 billion dollars! 😳 You add state and other elections, we could pay off the Iran conflict!

How many poor suffering middle and low class Americans could be brought up with that wasted money!?

As the song goes in "Jesus Christ Superstar":

"Surely you're not saying / We have the resources / To save the poor from their lot? / There will be poor always, pathetically struggling / Look at the good things you've got!"

😉

Agamer here is another.

I thought they wanted Americans employed! At one point in my career, these visas cost me my job! Replaced by multiple Indians.

Why would they challenge this at all?! (Of course we know the real reason. 😏)

Surprise! The Judge was Obama appointed. 😱

"A coalition of 20 Democratic state attorneys general successfully sued to strike down Donald Trump's$100,000 H-1B visa fee. [1, 2]

Contrary to a policy increase in visa numbers, the Trump administration actually attempted to drastically restrict the high-skilled immigration program. In September 2025, a presidential proclamation spiked the entry fee for a new H-1B visa from a standard $2,000 USD–$5,000 up to an unprecedented $100,000 USD per workerto aggressively discourage companies from hiring foreign talent. [1, 2, 3, 4]

Liberal state leaders and coalitions pushed back heavily through the legal system, culminating in a major ruling: [1, 2]

The Lawsuit and Court Victory
* Filing the Case: Led by Massachusetts and California, 20 Democratic-led states (including New York, Illinois, Arizona, and Michigan) filed a sweeping lawsuit in the U.S. District Court for the District of Massachusetts. [1, 2, 3, 4]
* The Legal Argument: The states argued that the executive branch violated the Administrative Procedure Act and completely exceeded its constitutional authority. They noted that the prohibitive fee was destroying the ability of states to hire crucial public servants—such as doctors, healthcare staff, university researchers, and K-12 teachers. [1, 2, 3]
* The Judge's Ruling: On June 8, 2026, U.S. District Judge Leo Sorokin sided with the states and voided the $100,000 USD fee nationwide. The judge ruled that the massive fee was essentially an unauthorized tax, emphasizing that the executive branch cannot levy taxes without explicit approval from the U.S. Congress. [1, 2, 3, 4]"

AGamer +1

@Tort

Joe's gas prices was caused by Putin and his war,

No – the proximate cause was Joe declaring war on the energy industry by expanding moratoriums on drilling, blocking and banning pipeline programs, pausing drilling and exploration permits, and adding layers of expensive new regulations.

The loss of manufacturing jobs certainly hurt many workers and communities but I'm not convinced it explains everything.

If the middle class is shrinking partly because many households have moved into higher income brackets, then the story is more complex than simple decline. Equally, rising housing, healthcare, and education costs would still be causing anxiety even if every factory had stayed put. A manufacturing wage would be a starvation wage in all likelihood.

Manufacturing losses are part of the picture; they are not the entire picture.

"A manufacturing wage would be a starvation wage in all likelihood."

Said while drinking their Iced London Fog Tea Latte with Vanilla Sweet Cream Cold Foam? 😏

Charles Dickens would be so proud.
"Copper, Your Honour? For the love of God, a copper for a starving family."

"U.S. Manufacturing Industries (Ranked Highest to Lowest) [1]
Specific sub-sectors ranked by average hourly wages for all employees reflect varied earnings expectations across specialized fields:
* Petroleum and Coal Products Manufacturing: $48.00 USD – $52.00 USD+ per hour
Historically the highest-paying manufacturing tier due to the complex, high-risk nature of chemical refining.
* Computer and Electronic Product Manufacturing: $44.00 USD – $47.00 USD per hour
Driven by highly technical roles in semiconductor and microchip fabrication.
* Transportation Equipment Manufacturing: $40.00 USD – $43.00 USD per hour
Covers high-value aerospace, aircraft parts, and automotive assembly plant operations.
* Chemical Manufacturing: $38.15 USD per hour
Includes pharmaceuticals, basic chemical production, and resin manufacturing. [1]
* Machinery Manufacturing: $35.00 USD – $37.00 USD per hour
Covers commercial, industrial, and specialized metalworking equipment. [1, 2]
* Fabricated Metal Product Manufacturing: $31.00 USD – $33.00 USD per hour
Involves traditional machine shops, hardware, and structural metal structural work. [1]
* Food Manufacturing: $26.00 USD – $28.00 USD per hour
Consistently sits on the lower end of manufacturing pay, encompassing food processing and packaging plants.
* Apparel and Textile Manufacturing: $20.00 USD – $23.00 USD per hour
The lowest-paying tier within U.S. manufacturing due to heavy global competition and lower baseline technical entry requirements."

The Iran War is certainly a mess of epic proportions with no end in sight.

Completely biased and incorrect … again … IMO.

Bottom line … If the US does not finish the job now … it will have to do it later …

End that radical islamic regime … that is the only satisfactory solution.

Plus The only immigration should be legal … including NO birthright immigration …

Have these criminals not done enough damage already?

They are called illegal aliens because they are and they broke the law.

Iran fired some drones at ships in the Persian Gulf about 12 hrs. ago. There is a strong fanatical faction that is not going to actually give in to the US, IAEA, etc. E.g. IRGC, Basij, Iraqi and other Shia Militias they are on a mission from their false god.

They want all infidels gone …

I don't know what is going on behind closed doors between the US Admin and whatever version of Iran's remaining gov't. So I can't say who, what, where, why, etc. exactly is being said and done.

However, another Ret BG, Mark Kimmet interviewed today. Made it clear, as many others like him have stated. The IRGC, Basji, etc. will not allow any US Forces, IAEA, etc. ever get on the ground to extract that deeply buried nuclear material.

It would take a concerted effort using heavy Combat Engineer equipment, possibly demo, hundreds if not thousands of Combat Engineers in at least 3 location in Iran. Plus a number of Infantry units for security, etc.

Plus Iran's nuclear material could be very hazardous to be around, handled, etc. As well as placed in heavy lead, etc. containers and 90-100+ sorties of C-130s or even C-17s to get that out of Iran. And properly disposed of, etc. Most likely in the USA.

This whole operation will take a very long time … Including having to construct improvised landing strips. Near by the nuke location sites.

None of this can happen with any resistance from Iran's radical islamist elements still being around.

These elements must be removed if there will ever be peace in the region. And no threat of nuclear WMDs in islamist hands.

I could not disagree more. Try looking at the oil company profits. The US government is just another customer buying some reserve supply. The big money for big oil is in exporting US overseas, setting records the last three years. The POTUS has said he does not care about costs or inflation. He cannot control only anymore than Biden did ….that would be Socialism!

The green new deal probably reduced tax revenues, but with the wealthy able to avoid taxes it was not the only factor. In any case it was a boogyman and a red herring. Can't wait for coal to make that come back!

FWIW – the POTUS says the agreement will be "signed" soon. But admits there is more to be worked out. E.g. the devil is in the details, may have more appropriate now then even before.

However, many Ret GENS, ADMs, etc. still believe Iran cannot be trusted. And based on the past and everything we know this is more than justified.

Some pundits are saying that the POTUS does not make bad deals. Again based on the historical past, etc.

But we also know Iran's islamists are great liars, they hate infidels, and again they cannot be trusted.

Are they playing the long game again … still ? Knowing like with the JPCOA they have no intention to follow the points of the agreement?

The POTUS's requirements as well defined:

No Nukes

No WMDs or assistance from outside parties to obtain them.

The Straits are opened and free from any Iranian threats. Including tolls …

They will stop supporting other islamists terrorists/jihadis, etc.

And stop threating their neighbors along with Iran's nonthoracic population.

IMO that is much beyond anything they are actually willing to accept in any agreement.

They are buying time until the Midterms. As they see the way the media, members of some in Congress, etc. almost always displays anti-POTUS comments, intent, etc. That almost traitorous activity gives Iran hopes the midterms will change that picture. And they start the plans for nuke WMDs and their End Times.

Of course, the US is not withdrawing and can initiate kinetic actions anytime.

Legion – I don't think its treasonous to criticize this POTUS or any other. He dishes out some pretty harsh public attacks on anyone who opposes him. He has a right to speak freely, as do his critics. Civil discourse may not be a thing anymore, but the First Amendment is hanging on. The war has a negative approval rating. Per POTUS, the nuke materials are inaccessible.

I don't know how the mid-terms will turn out, but I would not expect them to have much impact on the way POTUS views his Executive powers. Iran may not see this as being about him or his deals or ideas, threats, etc. Maybe this is about tying down the US military, reducing US prestige and running down its logistical capacity while hanging on.

There will be no deals that will stand, IMO. This is not a transactional thing for Iran's leaders, its a jihad.

"Iran's leaders, it's a jihad."

??

This is not new for Iran. It has been so since 79. People have to understand that. "We and our proxies have been killing Americans (and Jews) since 79!" Probably what it says in Farsi on their medals.

Same with radical fundamentalist Islam.

"Killing Infidels since 600!"

People ignore that at their own peril.

But that's exactly my point. The art of the deal is useless with these fanatics, they are not in it to deal. Anything they sign cannot be trusted. They will not stop.

Iran's leadership sees this very differently from Washington.

This may not be about deals, personalities, threats or finding some transactional compromise. From Tehran's perspective, simply tying down US military resources, reducing American prestige and imposing costs on US logistics and deployments may be a strategic success, provided the regime survives….& I don't see any signs it won't.

For that reason, I'm also sceptical that any agreement will prove durable. I don't think this is fundamentally a transactional dispute that can be permanently settled by concessions or incentives. For Iran's rulers, ideology and religious conviction appear to be central to the issue.

Iran holds enough cards that it has little need to budge. So I suspect matters will either drag on indefinitely or continue until the US decides the costs have become unacceptable and folds.

I don't think its treasonous to criticize this POTUS or any other

If it emboldens the enemy, causes they to continue the conflict, etc. It should be kept behind closed doors. At least until it is clearly over. Of course many in Congress and the media do not have any of their kin who may be in harm's way …

From Tehran's perspective, simply tying down US military resources, reducing American prestige and imposing costs on US logistics and deployments may be a strategic success, provided the regime survives….& I don't see any signs it won't.

They can say that to their own people. But in reality, they are just trying to survive. What is left of them. They are trying to buy time. So somewhere down the road under another POTUS they can continue their quest for their version of the End Times. Which mean trying to get Nukes again.

I'm also sceptical that any agreement will prove durable. I don't think this is fundamentally a transactional dispute that can be permanently settled by concessions or incentives. For Iran's rulers, ideology and religious conviction appear to be central to the issue.

The POTUS, Pentagon, intel, etc. most assuredly know more about what is really going on. In fact there is much, much more to do to even start to return to an actual peace.

Frankly, I think the US and even the IDF should finish the job. Removing the real threat from the board. It would take time. But getting Iran to do all we want them to do in the agreement is going to take a long time as well …

So I suspect matters will either drag on indefinitely or continue until the US decides the costs have become unacceptable and folds.

The US will not fold on this. It is too important to the US, the region and the world. These islamic terrorists cannot be trusted … period … IMO a few weeks for now if not sooner. The attacks will need to start again, and finish it. Once and for all … Iran's islamists don't need to be left alive …

I think the criticism comes from wondering how we came to place so many of our people in harm's way so suddenly…POTUS has reiterated that the uranium was already neutralized. If he could have achieved regime change, we could understand. Now we need to finish it, not cut a hallway transactional deal that will not be honored. On this many agree,IMO. Many here as well.

POTUS made this decision unilaterally, not the Congress, not the American people. The fanatics don't resist more or continue to resist even harder because Americans are criticizing the POTUS. The mullah gang doesnt care about that. They are following their own jihad plan no matter what…My opinion.

I suppose the "unconditional surrender" was just bluster and empty words? Color me surprised.

And he fixed the reflecting pool! 😡
For less then Obama (who failed). 😡

"the Lincoln Memorial Reflecting Pool has a long history of leaking, and past presidential administrations failed to permanently fix it. Specifically, the Obama administration oversaw a massive $34 USD million reconstruction project between 2010 and 2012 to address severe structural sinking and cracking. While it modernized the filtration system, the pool continued to leak roughly 16 million gallons of water a year after it reopened. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
The history of the pool's ongoing infrastructure troubles involves several key details"

Subject: Washington Post mocked for saying Reflecting Pool 'looks almost the same'

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MSM can't make up their minds. Some say it looks worse some say it looks just the same. 😂

But cant be better… right?! 😡

Then that UFC fight! Some right thinking Virginians tried to stop it! Hurrmphh!!

"The plaintiffs allege that the planned fight card is unlawful and corrupt: [1, 2, 3]
* Park Service Violations: The lawsuit argues that hosting the matches violates National Park Service regulations, which explicitly prohibit sporting events on federal parklands. [1]
* Lack of Oversight: It alleges the construction of a 4,000-seat arena and an octagon-shaped cage on the South Lawn bypassed required environmental reviews and lacked necessary congressional approval. [1, 2, 3]
* Private Profiteering: Plaintiffs claim the event represents a "corrupt use of our most sacred national monuments for private gain," accusing Trump and UFC President Dana White of exploiting public property for branding and financial benefits. [1, 2]"

But alas, they failed 😞

Well what about building that ballroom!😡 At almost no taxpayer expense! How dare he not milk the taxpayers!! 😡The affront to we hard working taxpayers!! 🤬

He should learn from Barrack and his Presidential library!

"Obama Presidential Center costs taxpayers hundreds of millions, with final costs potentially approaching $350 USD million to $470 USD million Obama Presidential Center helped by $123 USD million in public infrastructure … Obama Presidential Center has $1 USDM of promised $470 USDM taxpayer …."

"The primary issues keeping the Obama Presidential Center in the headlines are indeed related to millions of dollars in unpaid bills and intense payment disputes with subcontractors.Multiple construction firms and trade associations claim they have been financially devastated by the project:"

Now THAT is the government we are used to!

Then there are the millions of migrants ("illegals"😉). How dare he try and send them back!! So what if they commit some crimes against actual citizens or take advantage of the taxpayers. Trump is doing it and by GOD it must be opposed!! harrumphing!

The point you ask? Every day there are new cries of WOLF! WOLF! WOLF! About everything he attempts. After so long, we just stop taking any seriously.

Iran holds enough cards that it has little need to budge.

GEN USAF RET. Blain Holt : [paraphrasing] "The USA holds all the cards" … He's US GEN …you are not … nor am I … But I understand better than some about what he and other senior officers are saying. A GEN's/ADM's rank pretty much trump armchair history readers on TMP … Really don't care how many books one reads in this case.

I think the criticism comes from wondering how we came to place so many of our people in harm's way so suddenly

A Principle of War – Mass …

Plus the Area of Operations[AO] is very large …

If he could have achieved regime change, we could understand. Now we need to finish it, not cut a hallway transactional deal that will not be honored. On this many agree,IMO. Many here as well.

In effect we have significantly attrited the regime in assets and leadership.

This move the POTUS was to get an MOU. To open the Strait. Reports are ships are moving already. And get the remains of the regime to at least come to some understanding. In affect my and many others' stocks have made large gains for the most part. Record highs are being reported. Plus Oil prices are falling.

But nothing will be done until Iran follows the points of this agreement. Another reason why so many US assets remain in the region.

As e.g. ARMY GEN RET Jack Kean, to paraphrase. We all know Iran will say or sign anything and do what they want regardless. History tells us that. Iran sees this as another stalling tactic.

What Iran says in the open is more for their own supporter's consumption. That is SOP for many of our enemies … e.g. Russia, China, Hezbollah, any radical islamists for the most part.

Again they are stalling to wait until the midterms. As again the anti-POTUS/anti-US, etc. elements in Congress, the media continue to make negative devise etc. comments. Include Jefferies alluding to if they win the midterms … they could try to impeach the POTUS … again … Plus all the anti-POTUS comments, reports, etc. again just emboldens Iran to continue to stall …

Some in Congress and the media are pushing for the POTUS to fail. Regardless of the big picture outcome. They don't care about US losses. In seems to them … the more the better.

How many in Congress and/or the media have kin in the military and in harm's way? Not many I assure you …

Again GENs Kean, Kellog and others believe Iran will not follow thru …

Again GENs Kean, Kellog and others believe Iran will not follow thru with the MOU, etc. The US will have to reinitiate kinetic actions.

Like Operation Linebacker during Vietnam. The massive strikes on Hanoi, and other targets in North Vietnam by the US forces in country. Caused so much damage it forces the North back to the peace talks. For fear/concern of the US turning more of Hanoi, etc. into rubbled moonscapes …

The same happens when the US did a few days ago. Hitting target that were very destructive, very effective, etc. And that brought them to the move to actually claim they will sign the MOU, etc.

Why is this tentative MOU much superior than the JPCOA ?

The JPCOA would let Iran continue to make nuclear material for civilian only purposes …

The JPCOA did not effectively include stating the total stopping of any nuke material being made … period …

It addressed little to nothing about Iran's support of islamic terrorism.

The JCPOA actually had a limited time to be in affect. So when that time came. They could stop following the JCPOA.

I find it unfathomable when some in Congress, the media, the armchair GENs here, even the former POTUS who oversaw the introduction of the JCPOA, etc. Say that was a better deal … How ?

Iran could still enrich Uranium … That was the major failure of this most flawed agreement. And what those did not understand that Iran lies, cheats, etc. on any agreements made with the infidels … They did then and they are/will currently.

Plus even as importantly … this MOU does not give any $ or ease up on any many sanctions, etc. Unless they actually follow this POTUS's MOU. Obama & Biden gave Iran billions of $ for nothing really. That would affect their long-term nuclear quest.

What is so hard to understand ? If one is anti-POTUS, anti-US, etc. they will never admit to seeing the difference between the two.

And he fixed the reflecting pool! 😡
For less then Obama (who failed). 😡

He sure did! That's a picture from June 14, 2026 (USA Today). Those ducks seem happy with that American Flag Blue colored pool. So many mentions about Obama, it sounds like someone has "ODS". Not sure what the reflecting pool has to do with a topic about Iran however.

Obama promising billions for Iran to give up their pursuit of nukes? Bad. Trump promising even more billions for Iran to give up their pursuit of nukes? The art of the deal of course, brilliant!

"Iran holds enough cards that it has little need to budge. So I suspect matters will either drag on indefinitely or continue until the US decides the costs have become unacceptable and folds."

Whoever wrote that – how prescient!

Legion, don't feel you have to address the prophecies of "Australiadamus". They are most times wrong and are made up more of deep rooted dislike of our leader and of the United States, then of prophesy. 😉

As to the final treaty, we really don't know it yet. We just have the Iranian "talking points" and media posturing to portray it all as a wasted failure.

Just like those few snippets I pasted above.

Understand: The administration must be portrayed as one total gigantic failure. All things challenged, no matter how minor they might be. Offer no plan of their own, only: "we are not Trump" and "Trump and his followers are fascist and a threat to democracy!".

If I'm wrong, please enlighten me as to specifics of what their alternatives will be.

Why just today, I heard these 3 offered.

Subject: Aaron Rupar on X: ""All options have to be on the table" -- Warnock on expanding the Supreme Court t.co/OvxaGrmygp / X


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Subject: George Conway vows third Trump impeachment, says president belongs in prison


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Subject: Really American – BREAKING: Buttigieg Says It's Time to…


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I know: "Democracy is ON THE LINE!!"

Again, why I don't take all the negatives here seriously. Wolf! Wolf!

🤔

But if packing the Supreme Court is such a wonderful idea and is legal.. maybe Trump should go ahead and do it before the election. Save the other side the hassles! Would they complain? How could they? They are recommending it themselves!

I think I'll write the White House again. 😉

Nothing hard to understand. The big gain is in the destruction of materiel for a regime that doesn't fight conventional warfare very often anyway. The leadership structure status is uncertain. We got a bunch of them, but replacements may spring up like weeds. What is their latest capacity to mount terror attracts via proxies and cells around the globe? Hard to say. But no regime change.

The Straits were open until POTUS attacked Iran. It's not like a win to get them reopened is it? Right now this is not about Obama and Biden, Bush or Reagan. It's today….I am hoping we don't need scapegoats. Because being an American is not based on what political side you are on.

Every American, including Congress, cares about our losses. Except a very few on either side. Nobody wants to see family and friends at risk. Criticism is not about the sudden tactical concentration of force. Almost nobody faults our military. But the attempt to address the problem this way, under unilateral Executive rule, is uncomfortable for many.

Again this is an ancient and fundamental religious struggle for these guys. They would hate us no more or less if we're all agreed with POTUS. No MOU is worth the paper it's printed on. As we saw with the JPCOA. Thinking this latest possible deal will be different? A big improvement? More Kool Aid?

Legion, I respect your expertise and integrity as you know, and it may be I am saying much the same thing you are in the end. This US war is more like decades long and only ends with regime change and secular rule in Iran, IMO. I would not have done it this way, but I don't want to us to fail now that we have started. But the deal is a new government, IMO.

If the war with Iran truly ends with a negotiated peace and a vague memorandum of understanding, then America has again learned a hard lesson: military power can win battles, but it cannot easily impose political solutions.

The United States should remember four things. First, never enter a war without clear and achievable objectives. Second, diplomacy is often cheaper and more effective than armed intervention. Third, never underestimate an opponent's will to resist. Fourth, alliances are precious and should not be taken for granted; wars that divide friends and strain partnerships can leave lasting strategic damage.

Great powers are not weakened by making mistakes; they are weakened by refusing to learn from them. The real question is not who won the war (that's pretty obvious), but whether America will remember its lessons.

Prince,

Thanks for validating my observations of the TDA side. 😉

"The Pool Under the Biden Administration (2021–2025)
* The Base Material: The pool relied on its traditional gray concrete and granite slab foundation. [1, 2]
* Water Appearance: Depending on weather conditions, the water frequently shifted in color. On clear days, it naturally reflected the blue sky. During the warm summer months, it heavily collected stagnant green algae and required routine dye treatments or chemical flushes by the National Park Service to maintain reflectivity. [1, 2]
* Structural Issues: The basin suffered from ongoing joint erosion, causing it to leak an estimated 29,000 gallons of water per day into the surrounding marshy ground. [1, 2]

The Pool After the 2026 Reclamation Project
* The Coating: The entire 2,028-foot concrete basin was sandblasted, resealed to halt the daily water leaks, and coated with an industrial-strength protective liner. [1, 2, 3]
* The Color: The pool floor was painted a specific dark navy shade designated as "American Flag Blue". [1, 2]
* The Current Visual Effect: Unfiltered satellite imagery and raw tourist footage show that when the pool is completely filled, the dark blue lining creates a deep, high-contrast reflection of the sky, making the water look like a deep navy or black mirror. [1, 2]
* Recent Maintenance: Immediately after refilling, the pool experienced temporary green discoloration. The National Park Service clarified that this was "residual algae" flushed from stagnant supply lines during the 8-week closure, which crews have been actively clearing using industrial nanobubbler aeration technology. [1, 2, 3]"

Subject: Latest Look at Iconic Reflecting Pool After Renovations – YouTube


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The pool is just a "reflection" of constant TDA on ultramodern as relates to "all Trump".

Here is a great example. Read the comments under the photos. 😂

Subject: Boerne Breaking News | I hate to keep pointing out the obvious, but this is what left leaning media DOES – in this case it was the Washington Post, posting VERY misleading n… | Facebook


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