"Is it over?" Topic

So claims the latest Whitehouse proclamation.

"Hours after he threatened to bomb Iran into submission, Trump said the country's regime wants to make a deal and "we'll see if we get there."

"We've had very good talks over the last 24 hours and it's very possible that we'll make a deal."

Let's hope so:it's been a complete mess and even a defeat is preferable to it continuing.

link

Admiral Lord Alan West told the BBC the United States should have foreseen the current stalemate on the strategic waterway.

"Epic Fury has been an epic disaster, if you look at what [the US] aimed to achieve," he says, referring to the Trump administration's name for the operation.

"It was quite clear straight away that as soon as you go to war with Iran, they will close, or try to close, the Strait of Hormuz. And it's almost as if the Americans were caught out by that."

"I find that quite extraordinary.

"West says any reopening of the strait is down to Iran being happy with what is put on the negotiating table."

So, Iran "has the cards" and any deal will have them calling the shots.

"even a defeat is preferable to it continuing."

Says you.

"Admiral Lord Alan West told the BBC the United States should have foreseen the current stalemate on the strategic waterway."

I think the good admiral should be more focused on trying to get the "Five Frigate Navy" up and operational before deciding to make his judgement calls on US Naval operational policy.
But it's easy to do so when sitting in his office in London and tsk tsking before tea time…

Murphy his TDA and USDS is all he seems to have. It obsesses some like a canker. I assume this is the case here as well, as it would seem a new anti Trump anti U.S. Iran diatribe post was unnecessary with soooo many others already active.

People who in their politics are diehard liberal socialist globalist, must despise Trump and his world politics.

We know absolutely little of the details other than what sources, biased one way or another, post.

But the group above must paint it as a defeat as quickly as possible. The tone will again change if conflict resumes, which of course will be portrayed in a negative light as well.

It is the nature of the beast.

The narrative MUST be maintained!

No, it isn't over. But we may have reached the end of the beginning.

I doubt that a one page "agreement" will be enough to end this. Trump seems to like quick deals and ending but I don't think it works like that with treaties. Tried the same with all the supposed new tariff agreements.

There are no quick deals that last.

TBH, I'm with Trump on this one: get something signed, declare victory and move on. Hopefully, the domestic audience will forget what a shemozzle its been.

This war has been a disaster for almost everyone involved — Israel, the Gulf states, the US, Iran itself, and the wider world economy. Oil shocks, instability, proxy conflicts and endless escalation have achieved very little beyond draining resources and increasing bitterness.

The real strategic winners may well be China and Russia, who can only look at the America's entanglement and shake their heads in disbelief at how neatly it has served their interests.

What would Sun Tzu have made of it all?

Probably this: never fight a long war unless you absolutely must. He consistently warned that prolonged conflicts exhaust states, weaken alliances, drain treasuries, and create opportunities for rivals. Against a power like Iran — large, resilient, nationalistic and used to hardship — he would likely have favoured containment, diplomacy, disruption of proxy networks and political pressure over open-ended military confrontation.

Most of all, he warned against cornering an opponent so completely that they have nothing left to lose. A desperate enemy is often the most dangerous kind.

At some point, every war reaches the stage where continuing is less about strategy and more about pride. That's usually the moment to stop.

I think T•••• Needs to stop acting like he's hosting Wrestlemania. "Ya know, Triple H!"
Bragging about how he has a fanatic regime begging for mercy is not exactly productive.

doc mcb +1

"This war has been a disaster for almost everyone involved — Israel, the Gulf states, the US, Iran itself, and the wider world economy. Oil shocks, instability, proxy conflicts and endless escalation have achieved very little beyond draining resources and increasing bitterness."

Respectfully I disagree.

1: "Disaster"? Not at all. It hasn't been easy, or good, but for "almost everyone involved". It's done the following:
A: Gulf States: Showing them that Iran is a major a-hole and they have no qualms about killing their fellow Muslims, or anyone they feel like killing. All if did was unit the Gulf States against them, ostracizing them even further.

B: For the US? Not at all. It proves our military doctrine and capabilities are sound, our C3I and logistics work, and we can project force anywhere. Unlike other countries we have more working ships than a "five frigate navy"….
For the US Politically, it isn't a bright shining victory but it's shattered enough of the Iranian Govt and IGRC to keep them from developing a nuke that they were only too willing to use, for a long time.

C: Israel? Status quo except they don't have to worry as much about Iran as they did, and can now focus once again on Hez and Hamas.

D: Iran itself….who knows? The Iranian Regime/IGRC is only too ready and willing and eager to slaughter their own people to maintain whatever fanatical grip on political power they have and they aren't rooted in reality. This makes them still dangerous to the world and to their own citizens.

E: The World Economy? Ask me if I care. The UK can't get a ship deployed. France and Germany have ships in the med ready to deploy "once the situation has cleared up", (read: "Once the Americans have killed everything that can hit our ships…" Politically…The EU has way too many internal issues with the massive immigration problems…(All those "doctors, lawyers, engineers and brain surgeons" they were expecting to immigrate to their countries and assimilate into the society._ As for the world economy? More tankers loading up in the Port of Houston and the Gulf Coast. I'm good with it. China can suck eggs, as the rest of Europe can. Iran has been a problem for almost 50 years and we've technically been at war with them since 1979. I care not for "The world economy."

Oil shocks? Not hardly, other than pricing, which no one really knows how it's set. It's a rapid reflex reaction rating. And looking at my oil stock investments, I'm okay with it.

"The real strategic winners may well be China and Russia, who can only look at the America's entanglement and shake their heads in disbelief at how neatly it has served their interests."

Really? That's your take?
You DO realize that China has lost TWO of it's major sources of oil to supply it's nation, (Iran, and Venezuela)… Plus the New US/Japan/ROK ties gives China something new to worry about.

As for Russia…well..we're in what? Year 4 of a "2 week military operation?"

Yeah…

So sorry, but no..it's not "the disaster" you portray it out to be.

OVI +1

Murphy +1

So sorry, but no..it's not "the disaster" you portray it out to be.

Yes you are correct. Pretty much everything he posted is 💩…