"Iranian naval surprise?" Topic

The Russian VA-111 Shkval is a rocket-propelled, supercavitating torpedo developed by the Soviet Union to travel at incredible speeds of over 200 knots (230+ mph). It has been in service since 1977. There are several variants.

Using a solid-fuel rocket engine and a specialized nose cone to create a gas bubble, it minimizes water drag, providing a rapid, close-range defense against enemy submarines or carriers.

Key Features of the VA-111 Shkval:
Speed: Approx. 200-250 knots (370-460 km/h).

Mechanism: Uses supercavitation, creating a bubble of steam (cavitation) around itself to move through water with minimal resistance.

Propulsion: Solid-fuel rocket engine.

Range: ~7,500 yards (7 kilometers).

Warhead: Designed to carry a 460-pound conventional or nuclear warhead.

Purpose: Primarily designed for quick-response, close-range, and hard-to-evade attacks on US aircraft carrier groups or submarines.

Other Russian Rocket-Propelled Systems:APR-1/APR-2: Earlier rocket-powered anti-submarine torpedoes.

Iranian version:
link

Travelling at 400kph it takes 1.7 minutes to travel 12k. The rocket cannot use homing because it is too noisy. It cannot be wired guided either. It can use GOLIS autonomous guidance which is effective for land based or stationery targets. It appears there is no way to guide it after launch.

First off, 7km is pretty short range in modern naval warfare. You have to survive long enough in a high threat environment to be able to launch this weapon. Second, what do they have left that could close the range to a CVBG and launch this? As far as I know, nothing.

Good intel from both posters …

I doubt the Russians would risk letting the Iranians have one because a) a failure would make their weapon quality problems look even worse as with their S-300/400 epic fails and b) should one run short and be recovered, I doubt they wish to gift western intelligence a free copy. I'm fairly certain an Iranian version is similar to their vaporware stealth fighter.

I've heard about this weapon for thirty years. I don't think it's a serious threat.

How are you going to launch it? You have to get pretty close, and then announce exactly where you are, very loudly. It's essentially a suicide mission.

How are you going to aim it? It essentially has a WW2 level guidance. The US and Japan both had torpedoes with long and short range modes, and they rarely used the long range mode, and even more rarely had success with it. Sure, there were technical issues and you could claim the Soviets solved those problems, but that sounds silly. I don't think you're going to see a lot of accuracy.

And a 1,000lb warhead is likely going to put a US carrier out of action, but it's not going to sink it.

So if you have a usable sub and if that sub can get close to a US carrier (wow!) and if you're wiling to expend that sub on one attack and if the crew is willing to accept the suicide mission and if you fire a full spread of six of these things you can damage a US carrier and if you're willing to accept the loss of deterrence value if they all miss, then you can damage a US carrier, sending it home and decreasing in theatre sortie rate for a couple of weeks until another carrier takes its place. Eh.

When you have something like this you're far better off keeping it back as a threat than employing it and revealing its limitations.

So while this thing is theoretically a threat and navies need to make their plans knowing that this thing is out there, I don't think we're ever going to see one hit its target. It's more of a bogeyman than something you're going to see in the headlines someday.

" if you're wiling to expend that sub on one attack and if the crew is willing to accept the suicide mission".

We are talking 'Iran' here. But I agree that it seems highly unlikely this will be a viable weapon.

Well they have over 150 underwater ships. But none of them work any longer.

All ships and boats can be a submarine … only once …

At this point, the Iranian naval 'surprise' will likely be kayakers armed with RPG's…

Again, Iran was hardly a naval power. Calling their fleet of speed boats "ships" is kind of like calling the Chinese naval militia an amphibious assault force.

But the kind of leadership, training, performance, naval tradition and spirit, was just not there. And perhaps you recall the frigate Sahand rolling over on its side at a pier during repairs after accidently being flooded, or her sister ship running aground and sinking around the same time. Or their largest warship, Kharg, being destroyed by an accidental fire a few years ago. These guys were their own worst enemy as a navy. That we defeated them so readily is not exactly Trafalgar.

The Japanese had great success with their Type 95 Long Lance torpedo, which gave them a substantial edge during the early Solomons surface battles. But today's tech capabilities make this kind of seemingly tactical advantage obsolete.

Legion 4

Mostly true but, some ships that were subs, were used again. Some of them were made into subs again.

Zephyr +1

OSCS +1

Again, Iran was hardly a naval power. Calling their fleet of speed boats "ships" is kind of like calling the Chinese naval militia an amphibious assault force.

Generally correct … however a speed boat/"whale boat", armed with MGs and maybe tactical rockets/missiles or even laying mines. Along with being turned into waterborne IEDs. All can still prove to deadly. Or at least troublesome and/or annoying …

You can call them "The Shia Persian Gulf Yacht Club" … but does not mitigate that they are a threat.

"Mitigating" a threat often requires removing said threat … basically with extreme prejudice …