"If Russia Wins" Topic

" This is a 2028 scenario book written by Carlo Masala, which I read for my day job writing a defence analysis for a European think tank. However, it is also a credible scenario for modern warfare and wargamers.

The book is set in March 2028. It assumes that the USA has sold out Ukraine and forced it into a land-for-peace deal with Russia. Zelensky loses the subsequent election, Ukraine descends into chaos, and Putin stands down as Russian president. The West is trying to work out if this signals a new direction in Russian foreign policy, or another Putin puppet.

In Brussels, NATO is split, with the US focusing on the Pacific and European nations unwilling to increase defence expenditure to levels required to seriously deter Russian expansionism. In Moscow, they have learned the lessons from the optimistic 'Special Military Operation' analysis and have adopted the 1936 Rhineland model to target Russian-speaking areas outside the Russian border. In effect, this means just take action, tell everyone your objectives are limited, and rely on a weak reaction…"

Full Review at Balkan Wargamer

link

Armand

Unless they use nukes, Poland would stop them in their tracks (assuming Russia has any left).

Agreed.

Ditto …

If the Russians preform in combat as they are in Ukraine … I'm sure the Poles are looking for payback, e.g. from WWII to now. They don't like the Russians …

Of course this battle all revolves around the Russians getting and building more weapons. And somehow find more bodies to throw into the meat grinder …

I already wrote: Putin is a necromancer. He raises hordes of the dead and sends them on the attack again.
Winter is coming!

"and Putin stands down as Russian president."

Wishful thinking that is not going to happen…

Why not? According to polls conducted by the Russian Electoral Committee, Putin's popularity is falling.
Too weak, too indecisive…

link

Iran and its resistance have damaged Putin's authority in the eyes of Russians.
Akela missed…

The retreat could be through a window or your plane could explode because you're playing with a grenade… don't lose faith…

Armand

Tango, what are you talking about? Russia is a democratic country. Well… relatively speaking. ))) Basically, no more authoritarian than today's West.
In Russia, they value content, not form. And if someone starts a game against the rules, they too must be prepared to be played against. We value justice above the law.

YouTube link

Based on their performance in the Ukraine and Russia's virulent unpopularity with previously occupied Eastern European and Nordic states, I believe Russia is not foolish enough ( I could certainly be wrong ) to pick a fight with a well armed coalition of neighbors with a serious revenge desire. I think minus the bluster, Russia is a one trick nuclear pony incapable of picking a fight absent a perceived weakened opponent. Absent nukes, I suspect a Polish/Baltic States/Finnish coalition could be in Moscow in 6-12 weeks but nukes are not absent.

Why does Russia need Europe? Some kind of stupid, manic passion? Do you believe it?

Russia needs security and ports for trade. That means it needs friendly or neutral states on its borders and an absence of obstacles to shipping (trade). This is precisely what Russia has fought its neighbors for centuries. Do you remember a single conquest of Europe? I don't. The Russian army only came to Europe either fulfilling allied obligations or on the backs of defeated invading armies.

Now, the danger for Russia is NATO, a relic of the previous Cold War, which is constantly trying to advance eastward. The West continued this war even after the collapse of the USSR. Naturally, countries bordering Russia and part of an anti-Russian military bloc are seen as a security threat – NATO armies, aircraft, and missiles are constantly approaching their targets on Russian territory, reducing Russia's ability to retaliate in the event of Western military aggression.

Ukraine is just another place where Russia is trying to stop the West's advance. And of course, those who are trying to blockade the Russian enclave in Europe—the Kaliningrad region—are seen as real enemies, since a blockade is effectively a declaration of war.
If the Baltic states continue their policy of piracy and blockade, Russia will sooner or later respond with a military strike. Do you want to die for the ambitions of these dwarfs and sellers of the "Russian threat"? Your problems.

McKinstry, you're right to point out that neighbors are thirsty for revenge. That's exactly how it looks. Russia doesn't need to conquer Europe. Russia needs to restore the security balance.
Well, since we don't need conquests, we don't need a conventional war with NATO. If NATO enters the war, Russia will use nuclear weapons.
It would be simpler to negotiate. Putin has been proposing this since 2007. But Europe is categorically opposed. Why? The answer is obvious. For the West, Russia, as long as it exists, is a threat… A very convenient threat for those willing to exploit this fear…

Why not join NATO? Even better, why not join the EU and significantly improve the economy? You'd have to make changes to elections and governance but the Russian people deserve better than they are getting.

"NATO, a relic of the previous Cold War, which is constantly trying to advance eastward" Really? The last 2 countries to join, did so because of the Russians who pose a threat. Had the B3 not joined, they requested it, there would doubtless have been a few more special operations and they would no longer exist. Only one country has been aggressively pushing itself and expanding, and it is not the west.

Russian aircraft are constantly approaching their targets in the west, there changed that for you.

Tally Ho!

"Why not join NATO? Even better, why not join the EU and significantly improve the economy? …"

Because when the Russian economy was attempted, it collapsed… they weren't prepared for the competition of a free market… in turn, they began to take into account new social factors such as human rights, gay rights, civil protests, awareness of bureaucratic corruption and civil bureaucrats… in short… true freedom… let's imagine who was most harmed by these changes and we'll see why they quickly reverted to autocratic ways…

Armand

Under Putin's early rule, Russia attempted to join NATO:

link

link

But was rejected. And also a complete disregard for her safety concerns.

Tango, why is the West returning to authoritarian methods of governance? And why do authoritarian regimes only need to become anti-Russian to become part of the West?
There's more freedom in Russia than in the West. But our understanding of freedom is simply somewhat different from what is accepted in the West. We have far fewer restrictions and regulations for citizens in their everyday lives—just look at Western bloggers living in Russia now (not to mention pre-war times). And yes, the opinion of the majority of the population is more important to us than the opinions of various minorities. If the majority of the population is against gay parades on the streets, then they won't be there… What's wrong with that? This is what the people want – and this is democracy… Personally, I don't want to see openly gay events—it's unpleasant for me, and I especially don't want my children to see it. As for what these people's personal lives are, I don't care. But let them put aside the propaganda of such a lifestyle…
Yes, I'm a bad Russian. But I say what I think)))

By the way, have you noticed that an official Russian government agency is openly publishing statistics on Putin and the ruling party's declining approval ratings? And what's more, during an ongoing war. Is this what you call a dictatorship?))) No, it is something else that you do not understand, because it is beyond the boundaries of your usual culture.

Under Putin's early rule, Russia attempted to join NATO

Yep – that happened. I don't understand why NATO didn't accept Russia, I mean, what greater victory than to have your old foe in a defensive alliance?

I just came across a new video from two American veterans who married Russian women and now live in Russia. One of them lives in a small town in the middle of the taiga on the shores of Lake Baikal. On their channels you can see how people really live in Russia…

link

SBminisguy, how many people and organizations would lose their income in this case? You can make good money and build a career from hostility….

How wonderful to live in Paradise…

Of course, a cartoon paradise… not the real thing…

What a load of rubbish, showing how wonderful it is to live in Russia, by a couple of idiots who fell for a Russian woman and moved there?… No more than 20,000 Americans have moved to Russia since Vlad came to power… but at the same time, 2 million Russians fled between 2000 and 2019, and another 1.5 million have done so since the invasion of Ukraine. Combining these periods, some broader assessments suggest total migration during the Putin era could be over 5 million, although this figure likely includes temporary relocations and varying definitions of emigration.

Too much exodus to flee Paradise…

Speaking of authoritarian governments… I challenge you to go out into the street and shout "Down with Putin," "Stop the War," "We don't want any more corruption" for just 15 minutes… let's see how well you fare with your precious freedom. In the West, you can even lead a protest or march against your own government, and if you abide by the rules regarding violence… nobody will say a word to you.

By the way… what are they saying in Russia about Hungary's friends?… surely Orban's friend fell due to some NATO-induced alchemy… it must be horrible to live in a neighborhood where you don't have a single friend… except for the very bad ones or those rejected by society.

In Russia, things were never what the people wanted… they always were and always will be what the government tells you is good for you.

I'll never forget when the horrible invasion began, how they dragged people who had taken to the streets to protest in Moscow and other major cities onto black buses… what I remember most is a mother being dragged with a baby in her arms… but hey!… We live in the Paradise of Democracy!

Finally, and asking in good faith… which countries do you consider true enemies within NATO, countries that want to gain Russian territory?

Armand

Of course, those Americans living in Russia are idiots))) You know everything much better)))

How many Ukrainians left Ukraine, need I remind you?

I've seen police mercilessly crush or beat protesters in Europe or the US many times… Is this a sign of a lack of democracy? Then there's no democracy at all.

I consider NATO a military bloc created specifically for the war against Russia, since the USSR has been gone for almost forty years… And since NATO's combined might is vastly superior to Russia's, it's absolutely clear who the greatest threat is here.

The world missed out on an epic opportunity when the Cold War ended -- lost because of disinterest and incompetence on the part of the Clinton Admin.

When the USSR collapsed, which took everybody by surprise, especially the "professional" State Department diplomat class, and there was much confusion in the West.

I was a young space & defense analyst/PR kid in DC in the early 1990s when the USSR imploded. You know what I saw? I saw the US Military bend with events and accept a massive shift in the world order, which changed their entire mission and world view.

They were focused on defeating the USSR -- and won! They quickly got it -- everything had changed. So now what do we do? They, and VP Quayle and some Congresisonal Republicans immediately began grappling with this question -- what does the world look like post-USSR? What do we do? How does this change our planning?

Very early on the idea of a Marshall Plan for Russia was proposed, to keep Russia from disintegrating into a civil war with loose nukes and god knows what. The DoD was also asking questions like -- how can we engage the Russians on some joint defense measures, to pull them westward.

The DOD even sponsored a senior peer-to-peer meeting with top US and Russian military leaders, which took place in Washington DC -- imagine, the heads of services and Joint Chiefs of both sides in the same room together! The first day was very acrimonious, but after a few days and dinners they started to swap war stories and get to down to business. Among the things considered-- a joint US-Russian missile defense system against rogue states and accidental launch; US observers in their strategic control center and Russian observers in NORAD; US and Russian military officers cross-training at each other's defense schools; technical help to secure loose nukes and beef up Russian nuclear controls.

Putin has even mentioned this! I know this happened -- I helped organize that meeting, arraging for US and Russian participants from Civil, Academic and Political backgrounds to attend.

Then VP Dan Quayle "got it" also, and started asking about what a new Marshall Plan for Russia would look like.

You know what the State Department and professional bureaucracy was doing? You know, the folks who completely failed to predict or even sense the massive collapse of the USSR? Big 'ol photo op Peace Summits and meetings that accomplished nothing, just ego strokes and attention.

Sadly, Bush 41 was stupid, reneged on his no-new tax pledge and lost to the more charismatic Clinton. Clinton had no interest or experience with global politics or Russia, and handed off Russia policy to Al Gore. Gore had the credentials of a global statesman, but had actually accomplished NOTHING of substance, but Clinton tapped Gore to be in charge of Russia policy, and that was it.

An amazing "once in history" opportunity to help transition a collapsed empire was pissed away. Gore immediately dumped all those silly people in the former Admin who were championing active transition assistance to Russia and brought in his friends from the State Department. They embarked on a series of totally meaningless "peace junkets" and conferences with their old Soviet counterparts to blah blah blah while living large at nice hotels in Geneva and Paris.

And when Yeltsin asked for help with, you know, organizing elections and creating a free market economy -- he got lectures from Al Gore and the State Department about the importance of openness and securing Russian nukes. OK, how about you help us learn how to do that?? Meh, here's a check, now go de-activate some old nukes, 'cause you're all incompetents who might blow up the world. They got sh1t all help on transitioning from the US, accompanied by constant lectures. So THAT's why Yeltsin picked Putin, who was the kind of hard-arse Yeltsin was not, who would push back on Yeltsin's inclination to endure yet another empty lecture on security by Al Gore and the US.

We left Russia in chaos. We let their economy free fall into a wild-wild west of mafia and former soviet apparatchiks scrambling to make $$$$. We didn't help them with anything substantive. So a lot of Russians, who had originally looked favorably on the US and the West as icons of freedom during the end of the Cold War, felt betrayed and pissed, and that set the stage for them to support Putin when Yeltsin was done and stepped down. It was as much a thumb in the eye of the West as much as anything else -- he's a KGB bastard, but he's our bastard and will stick up for Russia.

And now look where we are…what an historic opportunity wasted…I hope when China goes down we don't waste that chance too.

The Germans should deploy to the border of Poland and Belarus. The minute one German AFV clanked across the border of Belarus, every Slavic sphincter in Eastern Europe would clench in shared genetic muscle memory and, like a zombie apocalypse, Putin would find himself getting the "Aunt Gladys" treatment.

It's more than understandable that a country invaded by barbarians would suffer an exodus of its civilian population… it's always happened this way throughout history… what's unusual is that they escape from the invading country itself…

"I've seen police mercilessly crush or beat protesters in Europe or the US many times.."

True. The difference is that in countries with true democracy, protests are incredibly frequent, for any issue, not just politics. In contrast, in countries like Russia, there are practically no popular protest movements in the streets because we all know what happens there. Likewise, I only ever saw mothers with babies in their arms dragging by their hair in Russia.

Questions clearly omitted from the discussion:

a) Have you tried street protests yet? Let's see how it goes…

b) What's happening in Hungary?…

c) What's it like being the only one without friends in Europe?

d) Are all NATO countries bad?… Please specify which of them is pressuring for an invasion of Russia…

Armand

We've already seen burning Leopards near Kursk quite recently… What do the Germans think of this picture? Doesn't their historical memory awaken?

SBminisguy, alas… I remember that time. It was euphoric that the Cold War was over, that Russia was once again becoming part of the West (that's how we perceived ourselves back then). Coming home.
And what did we see as a result? The "West" in Russia relied on the Russian mafia, which immediately merged with government officials, launching large-scale privatization "among their own" using various criminal schemes… And yet, it was American advisers who created the privatization plans (Professor Jeffrey Sachs, who himself was an American adviser, describes this in detail). They couldn't resist the temptation and themselves took an active part in the "division" of former Soviet state property. Many of them were later imprisoned, but it was too late – a corrupt system of government had been established in Russia, with all property distributed (effectively stolen from the people) among officials at various levels and bandits (and who else in the USSR could have had big money? Only organized crime).
I personally witnessed how unique, functioning enterprises were bought "through connections" for next to nothing by completely incompetent people who destroyed them – simply firing their workers, cutting up their unique equipment for scrap, and converting the buildings into warehouses for imported consumer goods or shopping malls… Universities were turned into diploma-selling agencies. The population's savings turned to dust. Crime flourished to unprecedented levels.
It was a catastrophe. A catastrophe far worse than Hitler's invasion. The losses, human and economic, were comparable and even greater. A local apocalypse. A criminal revolution. A highly developed technological and cultural country suddenly plunged into chaos and began to turn into a "gas station"… a resource colony of the West.
The Russians had no experience building a modern market economy in the 20th century. We needed help—your help. You found an opportunity to help China, and later Eastern Europe.
Instead, you moved your military bloc eastward. You refused us to become part of the West. I think it was fear and self-interest…
Even your loyal lackeys, like Putin, who actively participated in the destruction of his country and the legacy of the USSR, suddenly realized that you consider them "Papuan leaders" and will never allow him and his ilk to become equals with your elite. He tried for a long time to negotiate with you. A very long time. But who will seriously talk to the "leader of the Papuans"?
And then he and his clique decided to build a "great power" again. Well, in this the Russian people are on the same path as him. For now, they're on the same page. Putin isn't doing so well yet – he's weak and indecisive. He's trying to straddle two chairs. He's looking over his shoulder, waiting for the West to invite him back as a "friend." Russia now needs a different leader – one who's smart, cool, and decisive. A different, more effective economic system, one adapted to effective governance in the midst of a global crisis (I'd even say several crises – an economic crisis due to an outdated globalization model, an imminent redistribution of spheres of influence among the changing statuses of leading countries, a ideological crisis).
That's how I see Russia's situation.

Tango, stupid questions don't require answers.
In Ukraine, just ten years ago, peaceful protesters were burned alive and shot in the streets, cities with their own citizens were bombed and shelled with artillery…
But you and people like you weren't bothered by this…

Nick +1

SBm +1

already seen burning Leopards near Kursk quite recently

… Wait … you mean there is a war going on … and some tanks are getting blown up !?!?! I'm shocked ! Shocked I tell you !!

This was a response to memories of "slavic sphincters"… Didn't you notice this statement? No surprise…

The most interesting thing about your story is that it seems the Russians themselves bear no blame whatsoever…

Armand

The Russians bear the brunt of the blame… They betrayed their fathers' cause, they betrayed all their friends in the world, they betrayed the future of their children. Out of primitive self-interest and, supposedly, freedom…

Although not all. The last battle was fought. In 1993, Russians came out to defend their parliament from the usurper of power – Yeltsin and his oligarchy. This was the only time Russian communists and Russian nationalists fought side by side against Yeltsin's (and Putin's) bandits. They fought to preserve their homeland, even though they had different visions of its future.
But they lost. To the applause of the West…
And now Putin, albeit less decisively, is fighting for what these people fought and died for… The irony of fate.

link

Oh no… Not the only time. Now Russian communists and nationalists are once again fighting together against NATO aggression in Ukraine:

Russia has already lost they just don't know it yet. Since Putin's invasion :-

Sweden and Finland join NATO
Assad in Syria gone
Maduro in Venezuela gone.
Cuba on life-support.
NATO especially Germany and Poland significantly increase their Defence budgets.
As of today Wagner is getting kicked out of Mali as the Tuaregs and Al Quaida are poised to take over.
Not to mention the fluttering flags on the acres of cemetary space in the Russian Federation(from what I've seen it seems the minority groups other than Russians who are suffering).

Russia won long ago… Look around the world and compare it to what it was in 2022… Who did this?

NATO is divided. There had never been such a crisis inside him. The US and the EU have different goals and different futures. Is Germany once again planning to create the largest army in Europe? I think the Poles are happy, as are the French))) The pandemic has already demonstrated how united Europe is. The only thing that still holds the EU together is the mythical Russian threat.

One of the last few secular regimes in the East has collapsed in Syria… Congratulations – you're building a new Caliphate there with your own hands. Are you even celebrating the victories of Islamists in Africa))) Is Europe preparing to become the European Emirates?))) I think that's just around the corner.

Maduro is a creature of China, not Russia. He couldn't take a step without Comrade Xi's permission…

Cuba? What's Russian in Cuba? Bases, troops, industry? Never mind…

Oh, the Russians have losses? Who would have thought. But damn, in the fifth year of the war, the Russian army is still made up of volunteers… I guess the Russians are suicidal))) And Russia's borders are open, and men can travel abroad freely. Or is someone just lying about Russian losses?

"Look around the world and compare it to what it was in 2022… Who did this?…"

Trump…

"NATO is divided…"

Not till today…

"Is Germany once again planning to create the largest army in Europe? I think the Poles are happy, as are the French)))"

Neither… WW2 has gone a long time ago…

"The only thing that still holds the EU together is the mythical Russian threat."

The Russian threat is real… but EU hold togeher for many more reasons than that…

"Maduro is a creature of China, not Russia…"

Read this…

link

"Cuba? What's Russian in Cuba?…"

Read this (Moscow Times)

link

"The Russian army is still made up of volunteers…"

PAYMENT volunteers… we have cleary that a long ago…

"And Russia's borders are open, and men can travel abroad freely…"

Ha!Ha!…

"I guess the Russians are suicidal…"

No… the High Rank send their poor troops in suicidals attacks all time while they enjoy a comfortable life in the rear, making money through corruption…

"Or is someone just lying about Russian losses?…

Yes, the Russians did…

Armand

1. Putin is evil. Trump is Putin's puppet.

2. Russia lost any conceivable right to Ukraine when Stalin starved millions of Ukrainians.

3. Russia will be so exhausted after the war that it will not pose a ground threat to Europe for some time. Still, some kind of thrust (overt or covert) toward the small Baltic states is possible. NATO needs to beef up its presence there.

4. To help prevent the possibility of a Russian victory in Ukraine, the US should renew full financial and military aid to Ukraine and put maximum economic pressure on Russia, including making a serious effort to intercept Russia's ghost fleet of tankers.

No. Trump merely acted as a catalyst for the process.

This isn't the story of World War II. It's many hundreds of years of history. And these centuries-old conflicts have very specific causes. Economic and political. And they haven't gone away and won't.

The Russian threat is real only where Russia has economic or defense interests. Remove the threat from Russia's borders and end the blockade, and Russia won't need to confront a much more powerful adversary. For now, Russia is simply fighting for its survival.

I read it. So what? What were Moscow's plans for Latin America? Assistance in oil production that would then flow to China? That's more like aid to China. Arms sales? That's nowhere near as big a market for Russia as Asia. Russia has never had any military bases in Latin America. After communist ideology disappeared in Russia, Russia stopped supporting pro-communist regimes.
The bottom line is that Russia has very little interest in Latin America.

You can throw your "analyst" on Cuba in the trash))) Here's a description of the situation in Cuba for Russia…
link
The article is in Russian – use Google Translate to read. Cuba is also now a Chinese fiefdom. And there is no Beijing-Moscow axis (at least for now). There is a convergence of interests on some issues, and that's only thanks to Western pressure. Russia doesn't have many options right now.

The rest of your sobs are worth skipping))) That's already in the realm of shamanic incantations)))

Feast your eyes on the latest actions of the Ukrainian fishers of men and the resistance the Ukrainians are putting up:
t.me/boris_rozhin/208467

Light Horseman, have you memorized the left-liberal newspapers? ;)

I don't believe Putin ever intended to attack parts of world that were not once part of the Russian Empire, but I do believe that by hook or crook he wants to bring as many parts of the old empire back under his direct or indirect control. In Ukraine, he ultimately decided on war.

I doubt NATO membership for Ukraine was ever in the cards, at least not for years if ever. Even if Ukraine was a part of NATO's defensive alliance, it posed no offensive threat to Russia.

I love how Putin's apologists automatically assume that those who support Ukraine MUST be liberals. No other possible explanation.

This was a response to memories of "slavic sphincters"… Didn't you notice this statement? No surprise…

Yes, I did … but my comment stands … So yes … no surprise … Oh … and I'm not Slavic …

Jed +10

Yes, finally some logic and reason when it comes to military ops, etc. !

Unless you're some in the US Congress, most of the media, etc. Then their take is Russia is "winning" … they must be very biased, uninformed, delusional, or just plain stupid …

Putin is evil. Trump is Putin's puppet.

No … totally misunderstood, IMO … Trump is no one's puppet … not even Malania's. Trump is a former NYC businessman. Just becuase it looks like he's not going after Putin, Xi, Un, etc. with a baseball bat. Does not mean he is giving into anyone.

Again deception … smile, be pleasant, be respectful, play the geopolitical "games". But he is savvy enough to know it does as it generally always does – Realpolitik and $ …

How many times historically that surprise is paramount. E.g. Sun Tzu -to paraphrase : "War is a matter of deception". Let the enemy think one thing than do another. Von Clausewitz – to paraphrase – "Always do the unexpected".

So let your enemies and frenemies think you trust them, you may not be BFFs, but you're overtly too aggressive …

Trump knows how to play the trump card …

Too many don't get it …

2. Russia lost any conceivable right to Ukraine when Stalin starved millions of Ukrainians.

3. Russia will be so exhausted after the war that it will not pose a ground threat to Europe for some time. Still, some kind of thrust (overt or covert) toward the small Baltic states is possible. NATO needs to beef up its presence there.

Yes very accurate assessment, IMO … +1

4. To help prevent the possibility of a Russian victory in Ukraine, the US should renew full financial and military aid to Ukraine and put maximum economic pressure on Russia, including making a serious effort to intercept Russia's ghost fleet of tankers.

That sounds good but for a number of reasons probably many we don't know. That may not be the right move at this time … But I know nothing more about that than most if not all here …

BTW – I saw on the news today. Ukraine destroyed 33,000 Russian drones in the month of March this year … So Yeah … Russia is winning …

I don't believe Putin ever intended to attack parts of world that were not once part of the Russian Empire, but I do believe that by hook or crook he wants to bring as many parts of the old empire back under his direct or indirect control. In Ukraine, he ultimately decided on war.

I doubt NATO membership for Ukraine was ever in the cards, at least not for years if ever. Even if Ukraine was a part of NATO's defensive alliance, it posed no offensive threat to Russia.

I love how Putin's apologists automatically assume that those who support Ukraine MUST be liberals. No other possible explanation.

Yes, I agree … +1

Light Horseman, the goal of joining NATO is enshrined in the Ukrainian Constitution…

On April 6, 2004, the Verkhovna Rada adopted a law granting NATO forces free access to Ukrainian territory.

On April 27, 2006, at a meeting of NATO foreign ministers, NATO Secretary General James Appathurai, a representative, stated that all members of the alliance supported Ukraine's rapid integration into NATO.

In early 2008, a scandal erupted following the NATO Secretary General's announcement that the organization had received a letter signed by the Ukrainian president, the new Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko, and Parliament Speaker Arseniy Yatsenyuk requesting Ukraine's inclusion in the NATO Membership Action Plan.

NATO's intentions to continue its previous policy of engaging Ukraine were enshrined in the NATO Strategic Concept, adopted at the Lisbon Summit in November 2010.

Note: all of this was BEFORE the events of 2014.

Yes, I wrote about this – the countries surrounding Russia must be either neutral or friendly. And this is entirely natural for a country with the longest land border in the world. Otherwise, guarding and defending such borders would require a gigantic army…

Reference: The total length of Russia's land borders is 22,125.3 km (as of January 1, 2022, excluding the "new territories"). The country borders Norway and Finland to the northwest, Estonia, Latvia, and the Republic of Belarus to the west, as well as Lithuania and Poland (via the Kaliningrad Oblast, a semi-exclave of Russia). It also borders Ukraine to the southwest, and Abkhazia, Georgia, South Ossetia, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, China, Mongolia, and the Democratic People's Republic of Korea to the south.

It doesn't matter what ideology you adhere to.. Since countries that support Ukraine often support other terrorist regimes, including jihadist ones, they can be of any political persuasion. After all, this isn't about democracy, but about military and political gain.

It doesn't matter what ideology you adhere to.. Since countries that support Ukraine often support other terrorist regimes, including jihadist ones, they can be of any political persuasion. After all, this isn't about democracy, but about military and political gain.

Hmmm ? Didn't Russia support Iran ? Is Iran not a terrorist regime ? At least for a little while longer …

Has the UN recognized Iran as a terrorist regime?
The fact that one country has declared another a terrorist regime is simply a matter of convenience for their own political reasons…

"Ukraine destroyed 33,000 Russian drones in the month of March this year … So Yeah … Russia is winning …"

There's nothing easier than shooting down a thousand Russian drones. You just need to name any number that comes to mind)))
All that's left is to provide evidence…
Any "Ghost of Kyiv" can confirm this to you)))

That's outrageous!… now Russia is taking the UN into account?

The United Nations has consistently condemned Russia's invasion of Ukraine as a violation of the UN Charter, demanding that President Vladimir Putin's forces immediately withdraw. The UN General Assembly has passed multiple resolutions, supported by over 140 countries, demanding a lasting peace and accusing Russia of creating a severe humanitarian crisis.

UN Secretary-General António Guterres has directly told Putin that the invasion violates the territorial integrity of Ukraine and the UN Charter.

Resolutions have condemned the "brutal invasion," the annexation of territory, and demanded an immediate, full, and unconditional withdrawal of all Russian forces.

The UN has warned of severe civilian casualties, damaged infrastructure, and massive displacement, with officials highlighting accountability for reported human rights violations and attacks on civilians.

The International Criminal Court (ICC) Issued an arrest warrant for Vladimir Putin and Maria Lvova-Belova on March 17, 2023, alleging responsibility for the war crime of unlawful deportation and transfer of children from occupied areas of Ukraine to Russia.

No UN condemnation is needed to know that Iran is a state that finances terrorists as North Korea and Myanmar … those are in the Black list.

There are a grey list with Algeria, Syria, Venezuela, Yemen, Lebanon, and several African nations (e.g., Nigeria, Kenya, South Sudan)

Armand

Tango, I'm glad the UN is condemning something. They recently condemned the US invasions of Venezuela and Iran. So what? Who cares? It's just a declaration of position, nothing more.

The International Criminal Court—what is it? Is it the same court the US threatened? What does it decide? Did he condemn Israel, for example?
Just another biased organization for political action in the interests of the West.

There's the International Court of Justice. Other courts are a waste of time in international affairs.

It's funny you didn't mention Oman or Saudi Arabia. Even USAID was recently caught funding ISIS… Can we consider all countries that participated in funding radicals terrorists? Or will we do this only when it is beneficial to the West?

You was who wrote: "Has the UN recognized Iran as a terrorist regime?…" and now you said that the same UN It's useless… So what do we base our decisions on??… You quote what suits you and discard what doesn't?… Typical Russian attitude. That's why, and for many other reasons, you're not credible….

Armand

Tango +1

The UN has lost its bite … they are very polarized … Terrorists regimes are on human rights initiatives … what ??!?!

With the P5 being US, UK, France Russia and China … what could possibly go wrong ?

Tango01, do you not understand the difference between the UN's stated position on a matter and a court ruling? It's sad…

I understand that's the case… that's not the point… I believe I've informed you about both: the UN resolution, the position of the UN Secretary-General, and a ruling by the International Criminal Court.

If you think that's worthless… don't you dare ask whether Iran has been condemned by the UN or not.

Armand

What resolution did the UN Court (again, the COURT!) issue on Iran? Has the COURT declared the regime a terrorist organization?

Without a court decision, no one has the right to call a suspect a criminal… This will simply be his value judgment.
The regime in Iran, whatever it may be, is not legally recognized as terrorist. That's a fact.
Everything else is just information noise.

They put two bombs here in my city killing dozens… and I have not the right to call them criminals?…

It's the same as not being able to say that Russia invaded Ukraine because the UN Court hasn't issued a ruling yet… now I'm beginning to understand the twisted and malignant, falsehood-filled nature of Russian thought…

Armand

You have the right to call anyone and anything you want))) But it doesn't matter… It has no legal consequences.
You can't attach emotions to a criminal case)))

I believe Argentina should present its evidence to the International Court of Justice, and an INDEPENDENT court will then make its own competent decision on whether Iran was involved in the attack.
If this isn't done, then the evidence is apparently insufficient…

Unfortunately… due to having to endure years of populist governments, only now are the appropriate legal measures being taken regarding the Iran case… the Ambassador has even just been expelled…

link

link

Armand

That's great… Soon, I hope, there will be a ruling from the International Court of Justice, and the perpetrators will be named and, hopefully, punished.
Although, I think most of the perpetrators, if any, are identified by the court, are already dead.

By the way, how do you and Miley feel about the United States' support for terrorism?

link

I hope you are just as principled here?