"French & Italian Pre-Dreadnoughts" Topic

I am building navies to fight in the Mediterranean at the turn of the C20th pre-WW1. I know the pracice of deliberate Ramming was frowned upon but were French & Italian ships still built with a ram, given that most were built in the late 1800s?

Regards,

Jae

Don't know about the French and Italian ships, but the Japanese took the rams off of their ships in mid-1904 after the protected cruiser Yoshino was sunk in dense fog by the ram of the armored cruiser Kasuga. See link for some details.

Jim

Looking at Conway's 1860-1905 they note that the French Brennus laid down in 1889 had no ram and looking at successive ships, for the French battleships the bows appear straight rather than a sloping ram. The Italians don't seem to mention a ram or show other than a straight bow after Dandolo.

The French cruisers show what they call a plough bow up until Jeanne D'Arc (AC) in 1896 and Guichen (PC) in 1895 that certainly looks like a ram. I can't see any mention of a ram on the Italian Garibaldi's (AC).

The French Tonnerre,Fulminant, Bouledogue Tigre, Cerbere, and Belier were all fitted with rams and a single bow turret. They were medium to small vessels

So, the model should show a plough bow or ram as an extension to the bow?
The rules I am using give different damages to ships with or without a ram but both stand a chace of significant damage to the rammer which should give any gung-ho captains pause for thought & just use the damn torpedoes instead :)

Jae

Rams were well below the waterline.

So, how can tell if a ship was fitted with & retained a ram?
Anyne point me in the right diection of info that would help?

Jae

The use of rams was no longer in favor in either navy by the late 1880s. Rapid fire guns and torpedoes helped this change along. The Brennus was designed without a ram in the 1890s and that was the end of rams for France.

The Tonnant was a coast defense vessel. Ships with rams continued in commission after ramming was no longer practical.

In Italy the Regina Elena class ended ram design by 1900.

A lot of older vessels which would've been fitted with rams were still in service. Should I assume that, like the japanese fleet, those rams would've been removed?

Jae

I have checked Rupp's history of the French Fleet, also Robert's French Warships in the Age of Steam, along with Conway, can find no real answers as to whether they were ever modified. I would therefore not assume it. A tough question!

Rams seem to be integral to the structure of the particular warship. I think that it is unlikely that they would be removed.

Yet the Japanese appaerently did do mid-1904?

Jae