"Pakistan declares “open war” on Afghanistan" Topic

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People actually Declare War in this day and age?
WOW!

I'm sure they had it coming. Doubtless, Pakistan is offended by the Taliban's treatment of women.

As History has shown, anyone can conquer Afghanistan. But nobody ever succeeded in occupying it for long.

I think you'll find that is one of the resolved wars, so it can't be happening. Unless you're saying Trump lied – which obviously can't be true.

If one considers Afghanistan an imaginary country, all things are possible!
It never was a real country, or nation. It's a geographical construct, doubtless drawn up by drunken diplomats after a heavy meal.
Alexander knew what to do. Marry a beautiful Princess, declare PEACE! and leave. Avoid that area when coming back.
Although some colorful WRG armies can be constructed from the remains.

Before anyone starts whining about Biden, consider that the British never stayed long, and the Russians said this and pulled out too.

The fall of the Soviet Union was helped along by their debilitating time in Afghanistan, I believe.

I mentioned that on another thread here. Well as long as they stay busy killing themselves, I have no problem with it.

I think you'll find that is one of the resolved wars, so it can't be happening. Unless you're saying Trump lied

Never heard that take however, there is no way in Hell one can blame the current POTUS. For the Cluster the previous impaired POTUS did with the debacle of the A'stan withdrawal, etc.

Unless you're saying Trump lied – which obviously can't be true.

Wait, I got lost. Obviously it can't be true that Trump lied or obviously it can't be true that he's *saying* that Trump lied?

I think they're fighting over water. It's in short supply over there. Rain falls on Afghanistan and then flows into Pakistan, Iran, and another Stan, iirc. Afghanistan wants to keep more of the water, which may be illegal and is certainly going to be a BIG problem for the folks downstream.

Fighting over water is very, very old, older than a lot of these other reasons people kill each other.

Great 8 minute video that explains it all with maps.

YouTube link

Both. John OFM would never cast aspersions and Trump is incapable of falsehoods.

I have learned to my chagrin that aspersions are pretty darn heavy! They're so hard to cast.

I've taken to casting my aspersions in pewter, which is lighter than lead.

Talk about getting bitten in the arse by your own creation -- Pakistani intel helped create and fund the Taliban in the wake of the Soviet Withdrawl to try and place a proxy into power in Kabul. Much like the US support for the Mujahideen before the Taliban had the unitended consequence of helping to create Bin Laden.

Afghanistan is the classic "The enemy of my enemy is still my enemy" situation.

EVERYONE who invades there thinks they can install, or prop up, a friendly regime.

The British had *3* named and numbered Afghan Wars. That doesn't count the "little wars" in between and after them.
In each case, they THOUGHT they were leaving it in good hands. The best strategy was usually to invade, blow things up and then leave. "Let this be a lesson to you!"

The Russians, pardon me, Soviets, invaded to prop up a fragile puppet Communist regime. They found that their traditional brutal tactics became less and less effective. So, they left. "Honorably". 🙄
The Yanks got involved… because that is what we do. Put the lives of the peasants at risk with plausible deniability. Watch "Charlie Wilson's War".
The Russians, soon to be ex-Soviets left behind a vacuum. (Chernobyl and Afghanistan can credibly be blamed for the downfall of Communist CCCP USSR.)

Thus a vacuum. Where the Taliban and OBL snuck into.
9/11 happened. Was the "government" of Afghanistan responsible? Is that a serious question? 🙄
So, we conquered. Reliable sources reported that we had bin Laden in our sites more than once, but the Rules of Engagement blah blah blah
So we settled on the farce known as "nation building". Schools for girls. Without really trying to kill bin Laden. That should have been the only goal.
As soon as he was killed, our whole raison d'ętre went away. Should have left then and there. Wasn't that Obama? 🤔
But, no. We had to pretend that we were doing good. Four years of T**** talking about leaving, but never really getting around to it. The Biden leaving both incompetently and dishonorably.

But, we're out and gone. Let Pakistan try next. Or Zimbabwe. Or Peru. Anyone but us.

John the OFM +1

I don't think that Pakistan has any plans to conquer Afganistan. Their issue seems to be that some terrorists/militants have moved from Pakistan to shelter in the Afganistan side of the border, and are launching attacks from there to targets in Pakistan.

OTOH. India has been for long accusing Pakistan of allowing terrorists to shelter in its area and to launch attacks into India. This has triggered some border disputes between the two countries recently.

And in recent years, there have also been some similar clashes in the Iran-Pakistani border, where one (or maybe both) sides claimed that there were Balochi militants operating across the border. This resulted in some limited cross-border strikes.

John the OFM "Before anyone starts whining about Biden"

Really, On August 26, 2021, thirteen American service members gave their lives during the evacuation at Hamid Karzai International Airport in Kabul. Needlessly.

What idiot gives up the Bagram airbase (15 August) before withdrawing? Answer: Biden.

@OSCS74
Read above where I said Biden exited "incompetently and dishonorably".
He did what T**** had been talking about doing even before His first term. Biden did it badly. There is no disagreement about that.

Please forgive me if I didn't use enough insulting and negative adverbs! 😱

TDS is strong on this thread

20thmaine … yes, we know you made your point, you said Trump lied. Hear that a lot these days. No matter … The A'stan withdrawal was a disaster. Biden and his Admin, etc. dropped the ball totally, etc., etc. It really has nothing to do with the Paks and Afghans killing each other or someone else in range. Someone there is slaughtering someone else. It must be Tuesday …

OSCS +1

Griefbringer +1 – As I said that entire area/region is always killing someone or another. It is a way of life. Basically, they are living in the past. They don't want to evolve, they like living and dying in this way … With no sign of changing anytime soon …

Biden exited "incompetently and dishonorably".
He did what T**** had been talking about doing even before His first term. Biden did it badly. There is no disagreement about that.

Spot on OFM …

+1 Legion4 (Hah! When did you ever think the OFM would type that? 😄)

Like I said above, Afghanistan is an unnatural construct of tribes, religions and … tribes that have hated each other for hundreds of years.
But the world community of nations abhor the concept of "nations' splitting up on rational grounds. Probably right. Then they would have a "rational" cause to go to war with each other. It makes sense to them, but not to us. 🤷

I'll wager dollars to doughnuts that IF Pakistan invaded, they think that one of those tribes would be on their side.

I'm shocked John … shocked ! 😯

And yes we all know at any given time in that region one tribe, mullah, warlord etc. are attacking and killing another one. It is a state of nature, a way of life, it is what they do, and have done for a very, very long time.

With about 6 major tribes in A'stan. Old religious, tribal, ethnic, past grudges, etc. keeps the violence going. On and on and on …

The Paks have tried to influence A'stan and have a number of times. They are as much to blame as the Afghan tribal leaders, mullahs, etc. And no doubt the Paks know they have "allies" in some of those tribes. And let's not forget, not only religious and tribal differences, etc. but islamists mobs, e.g. Taliban, AQ and ISIS K … What could possibly go wrong ?

Ironic karma. The mob they protected, and lied about having anything to do with them, has turned around and is kicking Pakistan's goolies. *smirk*

"The Man Who Would be King".
‘Nuff said.

Here is the committee drawing the borders of Afghanistan.
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The best Pakistan can do is create a 30 mile DMZ bordering Afghanistan. It will not stop all the attacks, but should reduce them.
As stated before it is a win-win for the West.

As I said before, I don't any of us care what happens there right now. The old "enemy of my enemy" .

They have billions of dollars of our material that was blindly left in Afghanistan, so they might as well use it.

"The Man Who Would be King".

I saw the movie … a few times ! 👍👍

Here is the committee drawing the borders of Afghanistan.

Is that the video you sent me ? 👍👍

Complex cutting and pasting eludes me sometimes…

Here is the video of the committee drawing the borders of Afghanistan. Or similar. 🙄
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Now Pakistan has some issues at home too.

John, you sure that's not NATO. 😉

Yeah the Shia in Pakistan and many elsewhere, don't like their Ayatollah was wacked. By the Great and Little Satans.

Karmas a B ! Huh !?

The war the world ignores, update:

"ISLAMABAD (AP) — Afghanistan's ground forces attacked Pakistan's military positions at 16 locations along the southwestern border early Tuesday and fired on multiple points in the northwest, triggering intense clashes in which 67 Afghan security force members and one Pakistani soldier were killed, as fighting between the two neighbors entered its fifth consecutive day, officials said.

Pakistan "successfully repelled these multiple attacks" along the Afghan border, Information Minister Attaullah Tarar said.

Afghan forces carried out ground assaults in 16 locations in the southwestern districts of Qilla Saifullah, Nushki and Chaman in Balochistan province, Tarar said on X. In retaliatory attacks, Pakistan killed 27 members of Afghan forces, he said.

Tarar said that Afghan forces also launched attacks at 25 locations in the border regions of northwestern Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, where Pakistani troops killed 40 Afghan security force members.

There was no immediate comment from Kabul on the Pakistani figures.

However, Pakistan and Afghanistan have both repeatedly claimed to inflicted heavy losses on the other side since Thursday, when Afghanistan launched attacks in retaliation for Pakistani airstrikes the previous Sunday. Since then, Pakistan has carried out operations along the border, with Tarar on Monday, saying that 435 Afghan security force members were killed and that 31 positions have been captured in the fighting.

In recent days, Kabul has also said that its forces inflicted significant losses on Pakistan's military.

The latest announcement about the killing of Afghan forces came a day after Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari defended the ongoing strikes in Afghanistan, saying Islamabad had tried all forms of diplomacy before targeting militants operating from Afghan territory. He asked Kabul to disarm groups responsible for attacks in Pakistan.

Pakistan has described its operations as an "open war " with Afghanistan, alarming the international community. The border area remains a stronghold for militant organizations, including al-Qaida and the Islamic State group.

Pakistan has experienced a surge in violence in recent months, which it attributes to the outlawed Pakistani Taliban, known as Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan, or TTP, which operates inside Pakistan and from Afghan territory. Islamabad accuses Afghanistan's Taliban government of providing safe havens for the TTP, which Kabul denies."

…….
"If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?" 🤔

They both have a lot of weapons and ammo … As long as they keep killing each other, I see that as a plus …

Marines opened fire after group attempted to storm US consulate in Pakistan

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Armand

Yes Tango,

And for what purpose did they storm the embassy related to the lives of Pakistanis or US/Pakistani relations?

What was their "only" connection to their "reason" for storming the embassy to get at the U.S. citizens?

I want someone else to post it.

Your defensive comment is incomprehensible… I'm simply reporting a fact… I'm not taking any stance… if I had to, I'd agree with the staunch defense of any embassy in the world, as happened with the Argentine embassy in Caracas.

You need to slow your heart rate down a bit, my friend… you're way too excited to prove your President is having a good term… in a Miniatures Forum!… calm down, take a deep breath… Trump will pass like all the other Presidents, and the next one will be criticized also…

Armand

Armand reread it. You are taking this as a personal hit. It was not.

I am trying to make a point. A point I've made on many threads.

Then post the answer. 🙂

The USMC Security Force at embassies/consulates is there to protect the structures and US personnel at that location. The host nation also must provide security for embassies. Those usually stop the attacks. Before the USMC has to get involved.

I have not heard anything about the USMC firing on Paks trying to attack the embassy/consulate. But it certainly could happen. We don't want an embassy overrun as happened in 1979 Iran.

Frankly I have no problem if the USMC kills off some militant fanatical islamists. They seem to be spreading and causing problems in many places in the world. The herd needs to be culled …

Yes Legion, nor do I, nor any issue with the post.

What I was trying to point out is they were attacking the U.S. embassy NOT for anything the U.S. did to them or Pakistan.

No, there only connection, was the connection of their religion. Fundamentalist for Fundamentalist.

I'm shocked! 😳 Shocked I tell you. It can't be true.

No protests on College campuses?
No protests in the streets?
No outrage for the innocent dead children and women?
No children walking out of classrooms with their outraged teachers?
No one storming Pakistani embassies world wide?
Not front page on the MSM news feeds or news rooms?
😏

"The U.N. said on Friday that over 100,000 people have been displaced by fighting between Afghanistan and Pakistan, which has been running at a tempo close to open warfare for the past week with no end in sight.

The U.N. agency said the displacements were especially severe on the Afghan side of the border, where at least 56 civilians have been killed – including 24 children and 6 women – and up to 66,000 people have been driven from their homes. The Pakistani government rejected these figures and claimed it has not killed any Afghan civilians.

"Civilians on both sides of the border are now having to flee from airstrikes, heavy artillery fire, mortar shelling and gunfire. I plead with all parties to bring an end to the conflict, and to prioritise helping those experiencing extreme hardship," said U.N. human rights chief Volker Turk.

UNHCR said the situation was harder on the Afghan side of the border because Pakistan began an "illegal foreigners repatriation plan" in September 2023 that deported over two million Afghans living in Pakistan. Another two million Afghan nationals are believed to remain in Pakistan, "where many face hardship and constant fear of arrest and deportation."

"As a result of the violence, humanitarian assistance is unable to reach many of those desperately in need. This is piling misery on misery," Turk said, noting that nearly half of Afghanistan's population requires humanitarian aid after five years of misrule by the Taliban junta."

No, there only connection, was the connection of their religion. Fundamentalist for Fundamentalist.

That is the only reason … Their backwards religious beliefs …

No protests on College campuses?
No protests in the streets?
No outrage for the innocent dead children and women?
No children walking out of classrooms with their outraged teachers?
No one storming Pakistani embassies world wide?
Not front page on the MSM news feeds or news rooms?

Maybe they $ ran out to support those useful dupes, "rebels without a real cause", village idiots, etc. …

"As a result of the violence, humanitarian assistance is unable to reach many of those desperately in need. This is piling misery on misery," Turk said, noting that nearly half of Afghanistan's population requires humanitarian aid after five years of misrule by the Taliban junta."

In reality we should not waste anymore $ in any way shape or form. Too much blood & treasure has been expended already … The UN can feed them. And they are going to have to work it out on their own. Or just keep killing each other. Which is the most likely outcome …