"There's always a thing with Cold Wars" Topic

Jeez, I already went in braced for some kind of disappointment. And I was!

As usual, it's never the volunteers, game masters, attendees, or tables. It's just simply not worth the cost of admission for a day tripper.

My short review of the Saturday morning: link

Is the enshitification coming for us? Or has Cold Wars always been a little off? I note that I've only been to three in over a dozen years, but each time I leave with more regret than ever.

Did you have a good time? Am I off base here?

Went Friday and Saturday. Had a great time as always. One thing would say 1 day miss stuff on days you miss.
Great photos, somehow 2 days and never see everything.
Good conversations on games, rules and suggestions.
Suspended low turnout, fell bad games masters put up and no show so pack it back up. Managed playing 2 games each day and can't wait for Historicon in summer

The change in date always has something to do with attendance. I was at Historicon last year for the first time in a long time, and it was very well attended. I saw alot of young people and a variety of scales. HMGS is doing one thing right. Their outreach program for the young people has brought younger people in. Part of the problem is the delusion of grandeur of HMGS. Your point of the cost of your badges is spot on. There is no senseless reason why they should charge that high for two people one day, especially a spouse or kid who is just walking around. You were there to shop and just look at the games. Pushing away day trippers is just another shaft against the dealers. HMGS has never listened to the dealers. They don't care what they think and still believe they are in the same caliber as Adepticon or Origins. It has always been that way and will never change.

jsmcc91 the change of date is the problem. Smaller conventions purposely scheduled their conventions in Feb to avoid conflict with original Cold Wars. Now there is a conflict and some gamers would rather go to their local conventions.

Since the advent of the Historicon diaspora, HMGS has struggled to get its feet back under it. What had been a stable cycle of cons got shoved off kilter and left to pinball between dates and venues, all of which had their own particular downsides.

I went Thursday and ran into a "Host" of problems. (Did ya see what I did there?) I stay in an adjacent hotel ($$) which offered a lot of minor problems. (Not worth listing)

By Friday morning I was a bit used up, then I found out the overnight low back home Sarurday night was projected to be 5⁰. Worried about my pipes I repacked, put in a quick walk thru and set off back home.

Be it ever so humble…

I don't do Historicon anymore. I can't make the lodging options work. No one from my crew goes anymore either.

Im sure that the decision to move Historicon some 15 years ago "seemed like a good idea at the time" but its' ripples continue to afflict us.

The HMGS BOD has always been the smartest people in the room
Just ask them. They'll tell you.

Or has Cold Wars always been a little off?

It used to be, for me, consistently the best convention. Not as crowded and chaotic as Historicon and you didn't have to worry about a potential failure of AC, this being in the time of the Old Host. The only recurring issue was that it was usually scheduled late February/early March which frequently meant a significant Mid-Atlantic last-gasp-of-Winter snowstorm. When they began scheduling just a tiny bit later, that issue disappeared.

As for this iteration, I only made the day trip to sell at Wally's. I had originally planned to do at least Friday and Saturday so I could get some gaming in but there were very few games in the PEL that appealed to me.

Hmph. Bailed on 15mm 5-10 yeara ago myself. Too small for spectacle and too big for portability. Clearly many people find it appealing for home use, but I'm not surprised that convention games, which have a strong element of spectacle, have pretty much given up on it.

I suspect the date switch hurt. This was much too early to be assured of good weather, and people have to secure time off and plan games well before there's any useful forecast. No idea why HMGS did that. February is when you hold conventions is a local armory or gym: no one's travelling more than an hour or so, and if the convention's a bust, you're out little or no money. It's not a month for renting an expensive facility and banking on attendees from out of state.

I take it from the complaint about the darkness of Wally's Basement that the people who assured me that this time we'd get windows and real lighting were once more mistaken? (As they were last time, and the time before.) It's OK. I didn't believe them and didn't go.

You know that might be the overall problem, or much of it: HMGS needs us to commit to the convention much further out than they provide us with useful information.

In Lancaster this weekend the temperature went down to -5F.
Who's going to haul stuff around that?

When the BOD tells you they're going to make it better for Wally's Basement "next time", just admit that they're lying to you. They WANT TO eliminate the flea market. Ironically, it's pressure from the Dealers, who have started to not show up anymore.
Tell me I'm wrong but believably. You can't.

I had a great time. It was more lightly attended than a more normal Cold Wars (can't remember exactly when that was?).

I do concur that this date is too early. Mid-March is much better.

Hate where they put flea market. Having said that, I did pick up some deals and sold some stuff there on Sunday.

I saw a video from the FM and it looked like the lighting was much better, but it's hard to really know if not assessed first hand.

John, it's having Wally's at the same time as the dealer hall and also not caring who sells there. Many store fronts are in Wally's no matter what the BOD will tell you. Without the dealer hall, there would be no show.

Even back in the 1980-90s, weather has been a big issue.
Coming from Alabama the drive was awful. Sales were ok but I know of more than one company who lost their entire stock due to car wrecks.

Okay. Sure fine. Whatever. 🙄

I haven't attended an East show since the 1990s. Sorry you didn't have a great time. Thanks for the photos, in any case!

My son and I attended Saturday. I definitely noticed that attendance seemed to be a bit light. Most of our games weren't full (one seemed to be).

While I think the location for Wallys isn't ideal, it isn't a huge deal for us.

Having the dealer area where they put it was GREAT. We were really dreading having to walk down to the usual location, fighting snow and ice and the awful wind. Once we braved the wind just getting into the building, we were seriously considering skipping the dealer area altogether.

The date for us was no issue; we don't attend other shows in the winter.

Frankly, I rarely find anything I want to buy in the dealer area; my son mainly gets stuff from the flea market. He likes to scrounge in the bits bins most of all.

As said had no issues with anything. Even as a day tripper, did have the bit over a hour ride Saturday and had to use 4WD all the way. Was only 5 minutes more driving back at night so didn't make much difference.

John, do you know dealers personally or one yourself? The BOD loves Wally's Basement.

Everyone's experience depends on their personal likes and preferences, that is a given.

The OP's did not have to pay for two people. All he had to do was tell the registers they were only coming along as a visitor. My Wife has trailed me several times and never paid.

As for the games, I ran two gaming sessions that were both full (8 players each session) and had a total of 4 under age 18 players who were very enthusiastic. Only one of my team played in other games as we mostly socialized with friends both new and old, and I did 3 sessions as an award judge.

The Dealer area was moved to where the tournament games are usually held, and the tournaments went to the Expo Hall where the dealers normally are.

Wally's was in the theater again, and yes the lighting there is inadequate. It does need to be addressed for future events.

The Wild West theme was well supported by lots of games. Some other nice and created games as well along with old favorites.

Cold Wars will never be on par with Historicon so expectations should not be set that high.

No issues with the Wyndham hotel who accommodated my group with the requests we made, great room location and lots of fun times at the bar. Food availability was good (not 4 stars, but if you didn't want to go out it was sufficient).

My team and I drove nearly 8 hours to the con with no weather issues other than yes it was cold. We were able to unload and load 6 large tubs directly into the ballroom gaming area for our game with no problem.

My experience was very positive, and I had nothing to complain about whatsoever. I usually go to all the HMGS East cons and we have also been going to Little Wars in Chicago as well.

Looking forward to Historicon this summer.

Kim

Im sure that the decision to move Historicon some 15 years ago "seemed like a good idea at the time" but its' ripples continue to afflict us.

Would you have preferred HMGS stay at the Host forever until it simply fell down around us and buried us in the rubble one convention? Do you not remember the poor state of the facilities, getting worse every year? That Historicon was at its peak in the late 00s and getting attendance of over 3000 that the building and tennis barn simply couldn't handle? Yes HMGS has made mistakes but seeing the writing on the wall and trying to prevent a disaster was not one of them.

HMGS tried hard to keep the con there until it became untenable. HMGS dodged a bullet, because one year a Starpower (teen girls event) with 2,000 attendees had to be evacuated because a burst pipe and subsequent flood collapsed 3 levels of ceilings and water was gushing down hallways. The fire department had to come get everyone out and the building was condemned. Imagine gaming in Distlefink with your thousands of dollars in miniatures when all of the sudden you and your players have the ceiling fall on them while being covered in poo water. I'm sure it would've been lovely.

It's going to take awhile for Cold Wars to return to its normal form. First it lost its home at the Host, then Covid killed several conventions, and now it has to reestablish itself. The facility is repaired and under new ownership, and its in the right spot. Date might need to be worked on, but with a stable home and date it can start growing again.

jsmcc91, your sarcasm font isn't working. Unless you mean they love us the way I love a breaded pork tenderloin sandwich.

I've attended conventions at the Host for almost 40 years and a flea market table for the last 10. Right now, I wouldn't go back if the Host comped my room and HMGS sent a van to pick me up. They've shortened the hours, which means raising the cost and they've dumped me in a dark hole once too often. As a seller, it's hopeless. People are going through my merchandise with phones on flashlight settings and I'm selling maybe half or a third of what I'd sell with light. As a buyer--well, eBay and Noble Knight are neither of them easy or cheap, but at least I can see what I'm buying.

When people actually love you, it shows up in their behavior. So too when they don't.

Games? Horse & musket is a thing of the past. I can walk to 40K games from my house. No need to rent a room.

I'll be calmer tomorrow. But all the above will still be true.

link
Thursday walk around

We attended as dealers and had a great time. Kudos to the convention staff for all their hard work.

Please schedule the next Cold Wars no earlier than March 1, 2027 for safety reasons and a higher probability of a more successful turnout. Remember that many of our members are elderly and more vulnerable to the rigors of a hard winter.

Horse & musket is a thing of the past

ACW is always well represented at cons. We ran a nice Valverde game, the Confederate Lancers were able to flank and land a successful charge.

Tumbleweed +1

Good thing I find games still then, its my bread and butter
There always is Napoleonic, yet do not ever see 7YW but many earlier pike and musket

You're right, TSD101. If I hadn't been so mad ove the "oh, the BOD loves Wally's Basement" comment, I'd have noted the exception. And I think there were six Napoleonic games--one in multiple time slots for a single continuous game--the last time I went through a program and counted. Fighting Sail, but no SYW land actions at all in that one.

No doubt I'll be sorry tomorrow and write something more judicious, but I'm very, very tired of being told how much the flea market is loved by a body which makes it a little worse every year.

From here, it looks as though they know we're a draw, but they're trying to see how much worse they can make it for everyone without losing the draw.

I attended CW Thursday thru Friday. I had a great time. I stayed on site. My room was very clean and very comfortable. The HMGS staff and Hotel staff were very pleasant and helpful. When I first settled into my room I found my in-room safe wasn't working. I reported to the girl at the front desk. I thought maybe they'll get it repaired sometime during my stay. They dispatched an attendant to repair it immediately, before I even got my suitcase unpacked.
I played in a fun Bolt Action game Thursday evening. I ran my 4 hour (28mm) AWI horse and musket game Friday morning. I played in 3 games Saturday, Two Western era and one WWII. So great selection of games in my opinion. Was able to get into two as a walk up.
I agree about the poor lighting in the dealer area.
I still think the Wyndham is in a great location with on stie free parking.
I would prefer March over February also. But over all I had a lot of fun and will be going back again.

link
Saturday walk around

Its amazing for all the walking around I do miss lots of amazing game boards

TSD101 summed up what I was thinking, although I will also add that a) besides COVID, it was more recently cancelled for other reasons and b) the Host itself is always going to make a business decision. In the latter case this means that no matter how much we want CW on a certain date, it counts for nothing if the Host can book a more profitable Indian wedding, or cat show, or ventriloquist convention for those dates. This isn't peculiar to hotels either, as I know from experience that VFD and PAL halls will also bump long-time patrons for a more profitable event.

And the inevitable follow-up. I failed to say that on an individual basis, every HMGS volunteer below con director level I've ever met with has been friendly and helpful. So too have most of the con directors. And the Host is as near to an ideal facility for HMGS purposes as we're going to get for location and layout. The declining selection of horse & musket games is a problem for me, but not one I can expect the BOD to fix without holding a historical miniatures con.

I do think this year's date was a poor choice. And I am so very, very tired of being told how valued the flea market is when clearly every other aspect of the con is given higher priority. Even setting apart my role as a vender, it's not as though the dealers hall offers much these days.

Having the BOD tell me that they really love the flea market is like my mother telling me I really like red beets or cauliflower. The words are there, but the empirical proof is lacking.

Played longest game Borodino and 1 reason was the game master planned ax1 hour supper break, 1st time ever had that. Well planned at 5:30 but 2 guys opponents wanted to hitvthe flea market at 7pm. He suggested 6:30 still giving them a chance for food and shopping. 7:30 guys came back with a few boxes, and said bargains to match.

Former attendees complaining about the declining quality of the Flea Market is not exactly helpful.

TRU

I ran my Battle of White Plains on Thursday and Friday. Both games were sold out and fully attended. Horse and Musket is just fine. Stop your continuous kvetching while talking these shows down.

We had a great convention… stayed at the venue which was quite satisfactory. No complaints aside from the frigid weather outside.

TRU

+1 Loren at Tumbleweed. My driving in the snow is no longer a planned activity.

Flaws not identified are seldom fixed, TRU. But the point is taken.

True confession: I don't mind the theater as a venue for Wally's. In fact I kind of like it. it lends itself to a better flow due to the layout. It also has more space and (crucially) that space can't be used for anything else in a practical manner. It's also easier to secure. The addition of the work lights made it bright enough for most of the punters. Yes, the Glass House is easier to load in and out of, but I'm sure the dealers appreciate that as much or more than we Denizens.

Former attendees complaining about the declining quality of the Flea Market is not exactly helpful.

"Former"?
🙄
How recently am I allowed to comment?
I go back to Ye Olde Days when the flea market was right in the same area as the tournaments. Right in off the parking lot.
I've also been in the Upper Dimly Lit Dungeon, where my sales plummeted. Buying books or rules? Sorry. Few are printed in Braille.
Funny thing. I'd spend most of my flea market sales right down in the main Dealer Area. That's several hundred dollars they would have never seen.
Rumor has it that the flea market is gradually being closed down. Shut down. Why? To appease the Dealers, who made money off my sales.

Don't on my sneakers and tell me it's raining. Don't tell me how much the BOD loves Wally's Basement despite all evidence to the contrary. You're not fooling anyone. You're just making yourself look dishonest.

I can't say I noticed a lot of overlap in inventories between Wally's and the dealers. It was a particularly bad showing for the dealers this time. Just 18, I think it was?

If the dealers started carrying 40k from 10 years ago, dusty 15mm ACW or Napoleonic armies, battered, worn WW2 books, or appalling scratch-built terrain pieces, I could envision a potential problem.

I'll restate my original complaint, which was to pay <$80 for two of us to have access for a couple of hours. No games, no tournaments, no War College, no paint and take, just to walk around for a look-see. My cashier, a veteran volunteer, was very sympathetic, but didn't offer anything like a guest option. Thems the breaks, kid.

I don't doubt people had fun; there just needs to be an affordable option for the casual attendees with their non-gaming children.

Flashman, one of the volunteers told me they had 20 vendors, another said 22. I know one of the absentees (regular at every show) was selling stuff at the gun show in York and another had mentioned elsewhere that the gamble with the weather swayed him as he has to travel a fair distance from Up North. A repeated refrain I heard bemoaned the lack of deals from the dealers.

I agree with your disgruntlement. There have been a few cons where I wanted to pop in briefly, look at some tables, and hit the dealer area. I'm not paying for that privilege. Am I misremembering or did there used to be a gratis "Visitor" badge?

There have been a few cons where I wanted to pop in briefly, look at some tables, and hit the dealer area.

No one is going to bother you if you're walking around looking at games. The hotel frequently has unaffiliated guests that do it too because they've never seen it before. You could probably even get away with sneaking into a game or the dealer hall after the main rush but I can't condone that level of unethical behavior.

link
Little Wars video on Cold Wars on Saturday

And I got in a background twice

And that's my train on the cover shot! They also gave my Tombstone Showdown some great looks in the video.

Kim