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"Italian Semovente M41M da 90/53 Tank Destroyer" Topic


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Inch High Guy17 Dec 2025 4:43 a.m. PST

The Semovente M41M da 90/53 Tank Destroyer was built in response to an urgent request from the Italian Army for a weapon capable of countering Russian tanks such as the T-34 and KV-1. The resulting design used the hull of the Carro Armato M14/41 as a starting point. The chassis was lengthened by 17 inches and the engine was moved to the center of the hull. At the rear of the vehicle a powerful Cannone da 90/53 Modello 1939 anti-aircraft gun was fitted. A total of thirty vehicles were produced.

Photos here: link

79thPA Supporting Member of TMP17 Dec 2025 6:16 a.m. PST

Now that's an interesting ammo storage and transport system. It seems to be treated more like an artillery piece or to fight from a defensive position.

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP17 Dec 2025 6:18 a.m. PST

Thank you! Yes, an interesting response to the problem. But I suspect vehicles with main guns so vastly out of proportion to their armor are more beloved of miniature wargamers than they were by their crews.

Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP17 Dec 2025 6:30 a.m. PST

That is a very useful site, thanks.

Sounds like technological overkill to mount a huge gun on such a frail vehicle. The height of the weapon must have ruined its role as an A/T gun.

How much easier and cheaper to put the gun on wheels, with a much lower profile resulting, and tow it with the Carro Armato hull, instead of using it as a mount. The protective armour which was provided, would only stop small arms fire and "shrapnel" and the best protection for A/T weaponry is concealment.

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP17 Dec 2025 10:21 a.m. PST

Deadhead, I think you'll find that was also done--except for the tank hull as prime mover. I know Italy used their 90mm AA gun as a tank killer, just as the Germans did their 88. But US experience was that you tended not to get towed AT guns back in a running defensive fight. By the time you rigged for tow, the other fellow was firing on your prime mover. I doubt the Italian experience in Russia was much different. So in addition to towed guns, you'd want something you might get to reuse.

This may have been the best Italy could do between time pressures and industrial limitations, though you'd certainly try for hull down positions. A distressing amount of warfare is conducted with what's on hand or can be rapidly improvised.

Martin Rapier17 Dec 2025 11:11 p.m. PST

Larger calibre AT guns were hopeless in towed configurations as they were so cumbersome and they often ended up just been ng abandoned the n combat, which was why so many ended on SP mounts so instead.

The 90mm Semovente wasn't intended to be an assault gun, just a means of getting the gun from A to B without towing it. Same as a Marder, Nashorn, Archer etc.

The 90mm and 107mm guns mounted on trucks were even worse from a protection pov than the Semovente mo nt, but still better than try to ng to tow the things around in combat.

79thPA Supporting Member of TMP18 Dec 2025 5:38 a.m. PST

A more detailed article on the vehicle.

link

Mark 1 Supporting Member of TMP18 Dec 2025 2:43 p.m. PST

How much easier and cheaper to put the gun on wheels, with a much lower profile resulting, and tow it with the Carro Armato hull, instead of using it as a mount.

This is a very close match to the perspective taken by the US Army Tank Destroyer command as a result of evaluations done at the closing of the Tunisian campaign. It lead to a shift, where fully 1/2 of Tank Destroyer battalions were shifted to towed (M7) 3-inch guns rather than self-propelled guns (M10).

When the US Army went ashore in Italy and France, that approach was very quickly recognized as a mistake, and abandoned. By the end of 1944 all of the towed TD battalions were being transitioned to self-propelled mounts (M10s, M18s and increasingly M36s).

Larger calibre AT guns were … so cumbersome and they often ended up just been ng abandoned the n combat, which was why so many ended on SP mounts so instead.

Not only abandoned (when on the defense), but also unable to reach and deploy quickly enough to fill their envisioned roles (when on the attack).

Dug-in and camouflaged AT guns were an extremely dangerous counter to an armored attack … when they were placed in sufficient numbers along the route that the attack takes. But that was hard to achieve. One characteristic of armored attacks was that they are nimble -- they change direction, split and re-concentrate faster than towed mounts could keep up with, particularly when one includes the time needed to adjust fields of fire, dig-in, and camouflage the emplacements. All of that was much faster in a self-propelled mount. Also, shifting positions turns out to have been the single best survival tactic -- take a few shots and pull back out of the field of fire, shift to an alternate position and engage again. VERY effective, but not possible with towed mounts.

I suspect vehicles with main guns so vastly out of proportion to their armor are more beloved of miniature wargamers than they were by their crews.

My father was in the Tank Destroyers in WW2. His favorite was the M18. That has made it one of my favorites, and I have put a fair bit of effort into my studies.


For those who don't know, the armor was … shall we say … VERY out of proportion to the gunpower. Here I am showing, on an actual M18, the thickness of the turret side armor. Yep, pretty light stuff. Not even fully proof to a Mauser 7.92mm rifle bullet at close range. But very popular with it's crews.

And so, back to the original topic, the Semovente M41 da 90:


Because yes indeed, these oddjob Semoventes are indeed beloved by some of the miniatures wargamers out there, present company included.


And the preferences of the crews are included. At least in miniature.

-Mark
(aka: Mk 1)

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