"Best helicopter / flying tank design?" Topic

OK, so I've slowly acquired a bunch of cool designs of the "flying tank" sci-fi type. Some are classic RAFM Traveller [anti-grav], the rest are relatively unknown small projects in resin from small producers. They're all really cool looking.

So, my perception of how a flying tank would interact with the ground is that it would basically operate a lot like a nape-of-the-earth helicopter: popping up behind terrain to fire, dodging around behind hills and / or buildings, periodically flat out flying, sometimes low, sometimes high.

Wondering – what is the best game / game design mechanics you've encountered regarding helicopters in ground warfare? I'd like to keep it simple, but at the same time respect the "science" that is proposed in the various sci-fi world literature / RPGs / games which can add interesting limits on vehicle performance.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts!

"Centurion" by FASA, part of their Renegade Legion games, was focused on grav tank combat. It did an excellent job, giving you all sorts of maneuver options making it feel like you're flying a giant armored helicopter just as you describe.

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Arguably the best game FASA made and certainly the best hovertank game.

There's also a couple other 80s offerings:

West End's 1985 "Air Cav" boardgame.
Only got a 6/10 rating from BGG:
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GDW's "Boots and Saddles" 1984 has a 4/5 complexity rating altho it is rated 6.8/10.
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Anyone ever tried these?
I'm really just interested in the air/ground interaction mechanics.

This game sounds interesting. It may be at a level higher than I want to play, but…

"Air and Armor" by West End Games 1986 got a 7.7/10 rating altho it is also a 3.62/5 for complexity.
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Air & Armor is a simulation of near future combat in a Warsaw Pact invasion of West Germany, taking place on 50 miles of the Inter-German border near Wurzburg and Schweinfurt in the US VII Corps sector. Units represent companies, battalions and regiments supported by a wide range of helicopters and attack aircraft.

Instead of granting NATO units combat strengths far higher than the Soviet strengths to compensate for inferior numbers, the game emphasizes the doctrinal and command differences between the opposing armies that provide NATO with the force multiplier it needs to survive. Players operate asymmetric command systems, and each is challenged to get the most out of his system. The game system also creates a true "fog of war" environment in which deception, outguessing your opponent and tactical surprise can pay off handsomely.

Game Scale:
1 hex = 1 mile
1 turn = 2 hours (day), 6 hours (night)
Each unit step = 1 company or Warsaw Pact artillery battalion, 3-4 aircraft

Turn Sequence:
1. Warsaw Pact Planning Phase
2. Initiative Phase
3. Mission Phase (players alternate Major Formations or pass)
3a. Activation Segment
3b. Maneuver Jamming Segment (Advanced)
3c. Air/Artillery Strike Segment (Advanced)
3d. Maneuver Segment (includes the standard Move-React-Fire sequences; adds Advanced Combat Jamming)
4. Reserve Phase
5. Engineering Phase (Advanced)
6. Bookkeeping Phase

The flying tank looks cool and meets our expectations as survivors of the 20th and earliest 21st Centuries, because we've seen tanks.

Eventually, however, we should ask (1) what roles does a flying armored vehicle capable of carrying one or more large guns fulfill and (2) what capabilities does the propulsion and maneuver system provide? That analysis may lead to very different designs, such as spheres, egg shapes, or wedges.

Does the propulsion and maneuver system allow the entire vehicle to turn toward a target as efficiently as a turret? If so, the main gun can be a spinal mount. In addition, recoil going directly into the center of mass is probably going to be easier to manage than recoil from an outboard-mounted weapon.

Is the vehicle intended to be used mostly against other flying vehicles, or against ground targets? In neither case does a top-turret mounted main weapon optimize the design.

Great questions! What effect on design does anti-grav have? I honestly have no idea.

I assume anti-grav has anti-inertia qualities.

If something isn't anti-grav, then it must use a more "traditional" propulsion system, and much of what we understand about mass and inertia should come into play.

The key for sci-fi is the technology, which is mostly theoretical not but may exist later.

For example, Traveller posits fusion power, which basically makes power in huge amounts easily accessible, even in a back pack form. Traveller also has anti-grav – somehow.

The relationship between the two I'm uncertain of. Both have important effects on military technology. Game designers should acknowledge their speculative technology and put it into their game!

I've played Boots & Saddles and Air & Armor by West End games which is at a higher level than Boots & Saddles.

B&S does allow for air-air combat between helicopters.

I can't help you out on the Sci-Fi stuff.

Wolfhag

@ Wolfhag
What did you think of the B&S rules? Are they just ground combat with air added on? Or do they capture the feeling of helo flying and fighting?

Thanks.

Are they just ground combat with air added on? Or do they capture the feeling of helo flying and fighting?

I played the heck outta that series -- it's ground combat with air added on.

ChatGPT says:

Game Scale Grav Tank Feel
Warhammer 40K Tactical Iconic, cinematic
Epic Armageddon Operational Fast, fragile, decisive
Heavy Gear Tactical Realistic hover combat
BattleTech Tactical Proto-grav logic
Stargrunt Operational Hard-SF realism
Infinity Skirmish Vertical mobility
Horizon Wars Tactical Modern grav doctrine
Future War Epic Mass grav warfare
Dropzone Tactical Urban grav ops
Centurion Tactical Physics-driven

I thought the rules were fine for what the designer was going at. I purchased other games in the series.

Boots & Saddles:
Flight Levels and Altitudes
Helicopters operate at distinct levels that determine their visibility and vulnerability:

Ground Level: The helicopter is on the deck, capable of loading or unloading troops and cargo.

Treetop Level: A standard flight mode for moving across the map at high speed (often up to 20 hexes per action) while maintaining some terrain masking.

Nap-of-the-Earth (NOE): A specialized mode for following terrain contours to avoid enemy radar and air defenses.

Tactical Combat Rules

Pop-up Attacks: Attack helicopters can "pop up" from behind cover to engage targets and then immediately return to a masked position.

Engagement Limitations: Helicopters do not engage in or cause Melee. If an enemy ground unit enters a hex containing a hovering helicopter, the helicopter (and any loaded passengers) must immediately move to an adjacent hex.

Vulnerability: While highly mobile, helicopters are extremely vulnerable to air defense systems (AA). Effective gameplay often requires using them as "snipers" at the edge of enemy AA networks.

Heat Signatures: The game tracks infrared signatures for helicopters, which impacts the accuracy of heat-seeking missiles like the Stinger or SA-7.

Wolfhag

@ Wolfhag

Great stuff. I had thought of some but not all of those things.

I liked a number of them, but I think Heavy Gear CEF hover tanks really stand out.

Nice! Are they 15mm?

Sadly no, Heavy Gear stuff is all in 1/144 scale. How about Khrusan's Huntarr vehicles, these in 15mm

What are the Heavy Gear Blitz rules like regarding flying tanks and / or helos?