"What was the USN's finest moment?" Topic

These are my nominees.
Midway
USS Constitution vs HMS Guerriere
USS Kearsarge vs.CSS Alabama
Battle of the Philippine Sea
Naval Battle of Guadalcanal
Battle of Surigao Strait

Battle off Samar.

USS Constitution vs HMS Guerriere? – really?
Constitution was a far bigger ship with a thicker hull, bigger guns. One sided just about covers it!

I'd put Mobile Bay in there too.

Herkybird

The USN got to rub good ole American apple pie into the face of an over confident and smug Royal naval captain.

Guerriere's Captain James Richard Dacres knew what he was getting into and still engaged. He FAFO.

Midway

Midway was certainly a fine hour for the naval aviation (and maybe less famously for the naval intelligence) at a critical time.

However, it is to my knowledge also a battle where the surface craft never came within a shot of the enemy surface craft.

Battle of Surigao Strait: October 24-25, 1944. Most complete victory in USN history

Midway for major victories

Battle of Samar for all out courage – Taffy 3 had zero chance against Kurita's battlewagons, but engaged them to save the Leyte beachhead and the supply ships/transports for the 130,000 men in the Sixth Army

Bonhomme Richard and Serapis: "Sir, I have not yet begun to fight"

Mobile Bay: "Damn the torpedoes, FULL SPEED AHEAD"

Manila Bay: "You may fire when ready Gridley"

Battle off Samar: "Come-on, we can take'em" s/ (Gimli to Aragorn)

Honorable mention, Naval Battle of Guadalcanal

I did not include naval battles that involved only (mainly) aircraft, otherwise the list would be much too long. The Philippine Sea and Midway would be top contenders if I included naval air battles. Surigao Strait was an impressive battle and great payback, however, defending what was in actuality a naval BANZAI charge did not rise to the level of an epic naval battle, in my humble opinion.

An alleged comment by a sailor at the Battle off Samar: "We're sucking them into 40mm range!"
To me that says it all about their courage.

+1 Red Jacket.

John Paul Jones' victory was even more important given the fledgling status of the USN at the time. There is a reason his tomb is at the USNA (worth a visit along with the museum.)

Several earlier ones:

Lake Erie – "Don't Give up the Ship" (ok I know the Brits were outgunned).

Lake Champlain (Battle of Plattsburgh). The "False Nile". Stopped the British invasion of New England and gave the US leverage in the peace talks.

Mobile Bay

Battle off Samar

It so much depends on what criteria you are using to define 'Finest".

I would go with spirit in the face of adversity, and as such the way they bounced back and took the fight to the enemy surely makes Pearl Harbour a contender.

Midway- real shock and awe.

Bonhomme Richard vs Serapis. Yes, J P Jones is at the Academy for a reason.

Samar- pure, raw courage by surface and air sailors.

OCS74

I think your assessment of Dacre's actions is a little…creative.

The captain of Constitution (Capt. Hull) certainly thought the Guerriere put up a creditable fight, as did the Admiralty in the UK. They also agreed with his decision to engage.
The Guerriere was an older French frigate captured in 1808 and was not in the best condition.

For more information link

Mobile Bay

Without a doubt the finest performance of a US Admiral in direct combat with the enemy. Twice he was lashed to the ships rigging as he observed and commanded the fleet during the battle. Leadership probably only rivaled by Nelson.

His iconic "Damn the Torpedoes!" is a phrase that will live forever, not just U.S. Naval History but ALL history as an example of determination and perseverance despite any obstacle.

Kim

OFM – I had never heard that but it has the ring of being true. I frequently think of what I would do in similar circumstances and inevitably, I conclude that there is no way I could be that brave. Thank God that there are men who are.

Samar was as fine an example of courage and skill in the face of overwhelming odds as any Navy in history.

Among instances of pure spirit, the USS Houston going down fighting in the Java Sea.

I'm tempted to say pearl harbour.

Getting ambushed isn't perhaps fine.

But the efforts during the event perhaps.

It's certainly likely to be the US naval event most people remember.

It tops my list.

In fact it could be said that it was Japan's least finest moment.

So perhaps US pulls it out of not a fine moment for that alone?

I guess most everything else is ships at sea, less landings, and mostly intangible to most people.

But we have all seen 9/11 footage.

I'd put pearl harbour in the same basket.

It was not the attackers finest moment, perhaps immediately, but not on going.

And they both forged the steal that would ultimately run them through.

Has the world learnt nothing?

Yeah, I'll pick Pearl Harbour.

Samar was America's Thermopylae.

When the Japanese turned away, an American sailor cried out, "Hey, they're getting away." Or so the story goes.

Since my impending Master's thesis is on the Quasi War with France, I'd have to say it was the establishment and construction of the Navy in 1797-1798, along with the acceptance of the Subscription Warships and the subsequent campaign in the West Indies.

The US Navy was founded in 1798, not the crap being peddled as 1775, and their finest moment came in their founding when President John Adams decreed they needed a Department of the Navy to manage them.

Truxtun, not John Paul Jones, is the true heart of the US Navy's fighting tradition. Jones was a mercenary . Truxtun (and his fellows, including John Barry) were real Patriots. Truxtun and USS Constellation are the embodiment of what the common public expects of the US Navy. John Hoxse's memoir proves it.

I'll put my several years of research against anyone who wants to say otherwise.

Eris

Herky,

Of course Dacre was a creditable opponent. The better you make your opponent the better you make yourself. You do not build yourself to be a legend by beating unworthy opponents. Still a privileged, smug English captain.

OSCS74

I think Dacre was not Privileged or smug compared with any other ships captain, including Hull.
I think your assessment is based on the same American folklore which presents plucky Americans with rifles against arrogant and brutal Redcoats in the AWI/AR, which I consider propaganda of the worst kind.
You will probably disagree, but there we are!

OSCS74

The basic problem with most Doodle naval officers at that time and with most American naval historians in general, at least as I have found in my research, is they fail to consider the reason why Dacres and his fellows were overconfident. I find it was their success against the French and the abysmal performance of the Continental Navy. They simply had little to no respect for the US Navy. Rightfully so, if one only thought about the Continental Navy, not about the US Navy as it came to be during the Quasi War.

As far as the Doodle naval commanders, most naval commanders in general, no matter what their country of origin, were "cocks of the walk". Since they were, by definition, the only things between their men and their God, they often displayed what we would consider disdain for what they felt was "beneath" them.

Again, I can only say what I find in my research of their letters, reports, and such.

But go ahead and show me differently. Love to see your sources.

Eric

"USS Constitution vs HMS Guerriere? – really?"

Yeah, really.

"However, it is to my knowledge also a battle where the surface craft never came within a shot of the enemy surface craft."

So what's your point?

"I would go with spirit in the face of adversity, and as such the way they bounced back and took the fight to the enemy surely makes Pearl Harbour a contender."

Not the Navy's or the Army's finest hour. There were so many mistakes made prior to the attack that it makes you ask, what were they thinking?

That doesn't take away anything from the heroics of that day. I think the effort to refloat and repair the ships sunk that day was a monumental effort and doesn't get the attention it deserves.

"USS Constitution vs HMS Guerriere? – really?"

Yeah, really.

And I thought the USN had more to be proud about!

PS: I think my choices would be;

The Destroyer action on 6–7 August 1943 at Vella gulf.
The battle of Midway

Since the planes and aircrews were Department of the Navy personnel, my vote Midway.

"And I thought the USN had more to be proud about!"

Proud of building better ships that kicked the Royal Navy's ass. Absolutely!

The Americans definitely played to their strengths in the war of 1812 at sea! They couldn't compete with even 74s, but they didn't have to. The development of the United States, Constitution class was an act of brilliance. They could outrun any larger ship, and beat anything that could catch them, and their design was excellent.

Proud of building better ships that kicked the Royal Navy's ass. Absolutely!

One has to remember the Constitution first met HMS Guerriere, she retreated, thinking she was outgunned (correctly) by the other RN ships there. HMS Guerriere failed to pursue as she thought the other ships were American!

My nominations for both tactical and strategic reasons and results (IMO):
Battle of Leyte Gulf – because my Dad was in it on the USS Intrepid and I may not be here if we lost it…..
ACW Battle of New Orleans – a loss the Confederacy never recovered from.
War of 1812 Battle of Lake Erie
Midway – or how the Japanese Navy lost a war inside of ten minutes.

The Naval Battle of Guadalcanal (Phase 1). A force of US cruisers and destroyers taking on battleships at pistol range in the dark to prevent the Japanese from bombarding the Marines on Guadalcanal. Two US admirals killed in action.

Naval gun crew aboard the Liberty ship SS Stephen Hopkins, against the German raider Stier was pretty gutsy.

"Constitution class was an act of brilliance. They could outrun any larger ship, and beat anything that could catch them, and their design was excellent."

Hmmmm. Explain how the Royal Navy ended up with a certain HMS President. Could not outrun or outfight Endymion. Decatur threw his ship away on a pointless sortie, and had the lack of honour to lie about having struck. How he ever made it into the USN pantheon, heaven knows. He certainly comes over as "arrogant and smug"…

Arrogant and Smug is applicable to all sides!- and not just in the Napoleonic era!

PS: DBS303: USS President had run aground, severely damaging her hull, so lost many of her sailing advantages, therefore was easy meat for the pursuing SN squadron.

Herky,
I think the constitution vrs Guerriere is important for Americans because it was the moment when the British Navy finally accepted that the rebel navy was as good as they were man for man.
So it isn't about the fight; it is about the recognition. Call it little brother syndrome.

Joe

Probably right Joe, I think, even though the plan to occupy Canada failed, the War of 1812 was a sort of coming of age for fledgling USA!

"PS: DBS303: USS President had run aground, severely damaging her hull, so lost many of her sailing advantages, therefore was easy meat for the pursuing SN squadron."

Either Decatur was a knave who exaggerated the damage to his ship (and certainly his behaviour in trying to deny he had struck suggests he was not an honourable type) or a fool for continuing to stand out to sea if he really had suffered serious damage. Endymion was a superb vessel, specifically designed to kill blockade runners, and Majestic was also an excellent, fast, ship of the line.