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"Damage of AP versus APHE rounds in WWII" Topic


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291 hits since 23 Oct 2025
©1994-2025 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

Wolfhag23 Oct 2025 1:36 p.m. PST

I've been researching to determine the damage potential between normal gun AP rounds and APHE rounds with a small HE cavity in the rear of the shell.

What I'm finding is that the APHE round, while having real potential for additional damage by delaying the detonation of the HE after penetration, combat results, and range testing, did not prove this to be the end result.

Making a cavity in the base of the AP round for the HE meant less mass in the round, which resulted in 5-10% less penetration.

A round would need to penetrate about 20% more than the armor thickness for the entire round to penetrate intact into the fighting compartment and for the delayed HE charge in the rear to detonate. Since the HE charge is in the rear of the shell, a partial penetration or the shell breaking up during penetration would have almost no effect.

If you are assured of total penetration, an APHE round is ideal. However, if you need more penetration, a solid AP round is better with 5-10% more penetration.

Diminishing returns of HE filler: By the later stages of World War II, many ordnance designs either used smaller HE fillers or abandoned them altogether. It was determined that a few kilograms of high-velocity metal was so destructive that the effect of a small explosive charge was negligible. A successful penetration by a kinetic energy round alone was often enough to knock a tank out of action. Penetration was more important.

IIRC, the US used solid AP rounds for their guns towards the end of the war. I think the Germans stayed with the APHE because they had no problem penetrating most Allied armor.

My conclusion is that the effect of APHE is negligible, and I will not include it in my damage model. Does anyone have more info or disagree with this conclusion?

Wolfhag

Gamesman624 Oct 2025 1:43 a.m. PST

Interesting. Thanks for the share.
So in tank v tank one ia better off using AP rather than APHE. So why did they continue to make and supply them?

Another case of something that was felt to be effective as opposed to what it actually could do.

If one knew you then rather would swap out for more AP or HE. But was it mamdated SOPs that they be used or would individual commanders decide their own load out?

Of course it would depend on the modeling but ive found APHE to be less efffective in electronic games i play.

It does guvw thought to the question. With a limited number of available rounds, we would be carryjng ammo that wad less effective.
However if kne didnt know that was the case did that effect their use?

In a TT game where players have access to information of the game system, the player wouldn't use the APHE but would that be a reflection of what tankers actually did?

Gamesman625 Oct 2025 4:59 a.m. PST

This has had me thinking again about having the troops on the table doing things their RL counterparts may have done but are unlikely to do because of player knowledge of the table and/or rules

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