"Pakistan v Taliban" Topic
14 Posts
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korsun0  | 12 Oct 2025 5:41 a.m. PST |
link Nightmarish terrain to fight over. Interesting that former allies are now having at each other. Pakistan would know full well the futility of a modern army trying to fight in Afghanistan.
I'd like a model of the Taliban quadcopter carrying explosives…. |
 Legion 4 | 12 Oct 2025 8:46 a.m. PST |
No real surprise, even though the Taliban are a Pak creation. A'stan has returned to an islamist horror show. Especially if you are a woman and a child. BBC report was that since USAID support/supplies/aid has been significantly reduced. Which is part of the POTUS's initiative to stop taxpayer $ on non-essential expenditures/waste on foreign nations. This reduction along with the islamic fundamentalist Taliban, etc. troglodytes' treatment of women has caused more deaths of children there. Plus the islamist view of treating women like chattel/breeding stock, etc. The life expectancy of both women and children in the medieval 3d world  hole has been very much shortened. IMO and many others the Taliban, AQ, etc. in the sinkhole deserve like from the USA. If the UN and others want to waste money on a land that time forgot it is on them. Much aid like in Somalia, Gaza, etc. didn't go to who it was supposed to. Much going to warlords, islamic terrorists, etc. Again, IMO the US[and many others] have wasted far too much blood & treasure. On a land that most males are very strongly wedded to backward religious based beliefs, tribal and ethnic distain, etc. They really need to move closer to the 20th Century before they can come anywhere near to the 21st. Realistically and logically in just the way it has to be. At least from the USA's POV. There are many, many more important problems that needed to be "fixed". Before any more taxpayer $ is wasted on these religious Neanderthals. They really should just be left alone … and leave them to their own devises. Which probably mean more will die from their own machinations. Pakistan … karma's a Bh … "What you sow, so shall ye reap." … They are no friend to the USA nor many others secular modern nations. |
 John the OFM | 12 Oct 2025 9:58 a.m. PST |
Strange, but true. Maybe? One hears strange stories in the immediate aftermath. Immediately after 9/11, Iran supposedly offered assistance to the US. Turned down.
But, why? The 9/11 were Sunni and Iran is Shia. There's an "alternate history" What If for you. 🤔 Nations in that area never have permanent alliances. It is invariably "the enemy of my enemy". So it should not be surprising that Pakistan and the Taliban turn on each other. When the alliance is no longer useful, they turn on each other. |
| Korvessa | 12 Oct 2025 3:14 p.m. PST |
legion+1
I suspect the so called "Humanitarian Relief" just prolongs wars and solves nothing, for reasons you mention |
| John the OFM | 12 Oct 2025 3:38 p.m. PST |
Just like "ceasefire" just means "reload". |
| Legion 4 | 12 Oct 2025 6:30 p.m. PST |
Immediately after 9/11, Iran supposedly offered assistance to the US. Turned down.
But, why? The 9/11 were Sunni and Iran is Shia. Yes I had heard the same. I believe the US still couldn't trust Iran's leadership, etc. After their support of terrorists that blew up the USMC barracks in Lebanon plus the US Embassy was assaulted/occupied by militant Iranian Shias. As we know took many of the US personnel hostage. FWIW, IIRC, Shia are only about 20% of moslems. Sunni about 80%. Those numbers may have changed but I believe they are close. They normally don't always get along. But at times they come together with their hatred for Jews and even America. E.g. Hamas is Sunni … Regardless many islamic nations have conflicts among the various religions, tribes, ethnicities, warlord and mullah affiliations, etc. And it still amazes me after all these conflicts, etc. that have going on for a long, long, time. That some Christians still live in there massively moslem dominated countries/regions. But as we know when islamists are not killing Christians and Jews. They kill each other … Seems these trends will continue for a while. In many areas that are dominated by moslems.
It appears as long as there are militant radical fundamentalists fanatics followers of islam. More will die … Korvessa and OFM +1 With the loss of aid to e.g. A'stan. The increased deaths from lack of food, medical, etc. may be a mercy for some. Reminds me of what Kirk said after the Klingon home world was destroyed. Something like, "Let them die." … It appears we may have a similar situation here. |
| John the OFM | 13 Oct 2025 7:18 a.m. PST |
Being Shia has never stopped Shiites from going after other Shia.
Likewise, being Sunni has never stopped them from going after other Sunni. Lest we feel superior, being Christians has never stopped Christians from going after other Christians. Nor has being Bolsheviks prevented them from going after Old Bolsheviks. Hey. We're Homo sapiens. It's what we do. Why do we act surprised when we see chimpanzees going after other chimpanzees. Gorillas on gorillas. Lions on lions. Bears on bears. Bannon turning on Hegseth? 😄 Loomer and Greene turning on the parts of MAGA not sufficiently loyal?
The end of the Chiefs and Lions game last night? |
| 35thOVI | 13 Oct 2025 7:34 a.m. PST |
Even Pennsylvanians going after their head couch. Oh My! 😱 Wouldn't have rubbed it in, until your last paragraph John. 😉 |
| John the OFM | 13 Oct 2025 7:58 a.m. PST |
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| Incavart77 | 13 Oct 2025 8:09 a.m. PST |
It is sometimes said that the first casualty of war is truth, but the second seems invariably to be perspective. Reading this thread, one might believe that the moral cartography of South Asia was drawn entirely in crayon: Pakistan the villain, the Taliban the monster it birthed, and the entire region an undifferentiated "medieval sinkhole." History, alas, is never that obliging. The Taliban did not spring ex nihilo from Pakistani soil any more than Wahhabism arose because desert tribes lacked air-conditioning. The movement was cultivated—yes, with Pakistani intelligence support—but also with U.S. funds, Saudi preachers, and a Cold War appetite for anyone willing to bleed the Soviets. We sowed dragons' teeth and act shocked at the harvest. Nor is the desire for education, medicine, or food a uniquely "Western" affectation. The reduction of 40 million Afghans to "religious Neanderthals" is less an analysis than a confession of fatigue—a convenient moral anesthesia for those weary of caring. If we truly believe, as we so often proclaim, in the superiority of liberal civilization, then the least we can do is exhibit the civility that defines it. Disdain is not policy; sarcasm is not statecraft. To paraphrase Churchill—who knew something of both Islam and empire—we shape the tribes, and thereafter our tribes shape us. |
| TimePortal | 13 Oct 2025 12:24 p.m. PST |
Saw it on the newsfeed.
Wonder if Pakistan will use a nuke. |
| Legion 4 | 13 Oct 2025 4:47 p.m. PST |
Being Shia has never stopped Shiites from going after other Shia.
Likewise, being Sunni has never stopped them from going after other Sunni. Yes that is well known. And that is where tribal, warlord, etc. affiliations, etc. come in. E.g. the Kurds in Iraq are AKAIK all Sunni so was Saddam and his supporters. They didn't always get along. Saddam gassed some Kurd villages with VX gas IIRC. During the Iran-Iraq war. Iranian Shite supported Kurds and they are Sunni … Lest we feel superior, being Christians has never stopped Christians from going after other Christians. No we can't, as Euros have been attacking Euros for centuries. Sometimes over religion, but more so because wanting something else someone else has … Been going on for a very long time. Nothing new … Pakistan the villain, the Taliban the monster it birthed, and the entire region an undifferentiated "medieval sinkhole." That is not actually what I meant. This is taken out of context. However, yes the Pakistanis are the creators of the Taliban. And yes during the Cold War the US supported the Muj. In their war with the USSR. Just as the USSR[and Chicoms] supported the North Koreans in that war. And the VC/NVA during the Vietnam War. Fighting against UN forces in the ROK. And SEATO forces in Indochina.
The movement was cultivated—yes, with Pakistani intelligence support—but also with U.S. funds, Saudi preachers, and a Cold War appetite for anyone willing to bleed the Soviets. I pretty much said that. And am well aware of it. Nor is the desire for education, medicine, or food a uniquely "Western" affectation. Never said anything like that. However, it is well known the Taliban do not like females to go to school, etc. The reduction of 40 million Afghans to "religious Neanderthals" is less an analysis than a confession of fatigue—a convenient moral anesthesia for those weary of caring. I never said all are Neanderthal. But was pointing to the fact that many males in A'stan are not very well educated. And wedded to their tribe, warlord, religion, etc. If I am tired of anything that is a waste of Western blood & treasure in a place like A'stan. But AQ was using that as a base and supported by many living there. As after 9/11 we had no choice but to respond to the terrorist attacks from there. Regardless of where the terrorists were actually born. Most of those terrorists were from the KSA that attacked the USA on that day. If we truly believe, as we so often proclaim, in the superiority of liberal civilization, then the least we can do is exhibit the civility that defines it. I don't recall saying anything like that. And as far as civility, I believe as many others do. The USA and some NATO nations, etc. tried to bring A'stan into modernity, etc. Make them able to defend themselves against anti-gov't forces, etc. But we saw again as in Vietnam, Somalia and even to a point in Iraq, we can't lead a horse to water. And attempts at nation building is a waste of a lot of $ and a lot lives. Seems leaving them to their own devises may had been a better option. But that always will not be very effective. Based on the current situation in those places and others. Leaving them on their may not always be possible, either. And all followers of islam are Not anti-Western, etc. jihadis. But a small well-funded minority of radicals, fanatics, fundamentalists, etc. But they have to get support from somewhere. There are many wealthy islamists, from oil revenues, etc. Who don't like the USA/the West. Disdain is not policy; sarcasm is not statecraft. Never said it was … Frankly I don't know what policies and statecraft would work in those places. Seems leaving them alone could be an option. Until they attack us. Then there is no choice. sarcasm I don't see it … I guess you do … ? |
| Incavart77 | 13 Oct 2025 6:37 p.m. PST |
Legion, I take no issue with your clarifications — indeed, they reinforce my sense that our differences are tonal rather than factual. You and I would likely agree that the West's interventions were mismanaged, that "nation-building" in tribal societies has proved a Sisyphean hobby, and that Pakistan's double-dealing has deep roots. My quarrel is not with your chronology but with your despair. To call a civilization "backward" is to absolve ourselves of curiosity about how it became so. It's the rhetorical equivalent of declaring bankruptcy in moral imagination. We once prided ourselves on understanding adversaries rather than merely classifying them. Kennan studied Bolsheviks; T.E. Lawrence studied tribes; today we scroll headlines. Perhaps the price of modern convenience is the loss of intellectual patience. You say "leaving them alone may be the only option." Possibly. But let's not pretend that indifference is strategy. Sometimes it's simply fatigue dressed up as realism. |
| John the OFM | 13 Oct 2025 9:11 p.m. PST |
You say "leaving them alone may be the only option." Possibly. But let's not pretend that indifference is strategy. Sometimes it's simply fatigue dressed up as realism. You are begging the question that "we" can do anything to change "them". Why bother? Afghanistan is mentioned. When "we" conquered (yes, conquered is the correct word) "them" we tried to do downright silly things like setting up schools for girls, and stopping police chiefs from sodomizing little boys. How long did that last after we left. |
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