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"The capitulation of the German Courland group in 1945" Topic


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Cuprum210 Oct 2025 9:15 p.m. PST

Unique newsreel footage. Turn on English subtitles.
Interesting detail: the Soviet group accepting the surrender is commanded by Marshal Govorov, who fought against the Bolsheviks for over a year as part of the White Army during the Russian Civil War. Of course, back then, he was only a lieutenant and commanded an artillery battery…

YouTube link

korsun0 Supporting Member of TMP11 Oct 2025 5:49 a.m. PST

The sheer amount of equipment that was captured was interesting, particularly at that stage of the war. I would've thought Germany had no industrial capacity to supply anyone. The film of all the different equipment (including captured T34) and the camouflage markings is good value.
Thanks for that.

Maggot11 Oct 2025 8:09 a.m. PST

Very interesting. Indeed, a considerable amount of equipment; assuming it's not just films of the same equipment over and over, it looks like divisions worth of equipment, most in serviceable condition. Note many of the German troops seem to be in good condition themselves, with nicer uniforms and generally well fed. Also note the prevalence of assault gun chassis, particularly of the MKIV variety. It looks to have been a very well supplied force that surrendered….but no fuel, no bullets, and your awesome, state of the art tank is nothing but a 40 ton paperweight.

I wonder if those prisoners suffered the same fate as the Stalingrad ones….

Cuprum211 Oct 2025 7:29 p.m. PST

A total of 42 German generals, 8,038 officers, and 181,032 soldiers surrendered. Soviet troops captured 325 tanks and self-propelled guns, 2,000 guns and mortars, 6,000 vehicles, and 136 aircraft.

Soviet documents indicate that the Germans dug their tanks into the ground en masse, turning them into pillboxes because they lacked fuel. I don't think anyone dug them up for the surrender ceremony. Buried assault guns would have been of little use.

Beginning in October 1944, two German armies (the 16th and 18th) were pinned down and blocked on Latvia's Baltic coast (from Tukums to the port of Liepaja). This encircled the entire Army Group North, which contained even more troops than those encircled at Stalingrad—according to various sources, up to 400,000 soldiers and officers as of early October 1944.

The total area of ​​the Courland Pocket covered approximately 15,000 square kilometers (about a quarter of Latvia's territory). For comparison, up to 400,000 German troops were trapped in the Ruhr Pocket in March 1945, 330,000 (including Italians) in the Tunisian Pocket in March 1943, and approximately 200,000 in Stalingrad in December 1942.

It's worth noting that, unlike most pockets (except the Tunisian Pocket), the Courland Pocket was not completely blockaded, allowing the encircled forces to maintain communication with Germany via the Baltic Sea, through the ports of Liepaja and Ventspils.

Thus, it was possible to supply the group with ammunition, food, and medicine, evacuate the wounded by sea, and even transfer entire divisions from the group directly to German territory.

According to other sources, the encircled German forces were somewhat fewer; in the fall of 1944, they numbered approximately 28-30 divisions, including three tank divisions. With an average of 7,000 men per division, the total strength of the army group was 210,000. Including special units, aviation, and logistics, the army group totaled approximately 250,000 men.

After 10 divisions were evacuated by sea to Germany beginning in early 1945, the size of the army group at the time of the capitulation, according to some researchers, was approximately 180,000 men.

All these German divisions defended only 200 kilometers of frontline. Such troop density is more typical for divisions preparing for an offensive. The Germans only achieved such a high troop density during the Battle of Berlin, at the Seelow Heights.

The Russians generally treated prisoners fairly well. As for those who surrendered at Stalingrad, they were simply unlucky. Most of them were already extremely exhausted and, for the most part, sick.

Following an examination of the prisoners, the following medical report was made:

"The condition of those captured:
Dystrophy – 70%.
Vitamin deficiency – 100%.
Frostbite – 60%.
Mental exhaustion – 100%.
Near-death condition – 10%."

Considering local logistics and the Russians' lack of sufficient transport to get them to the railway (the battle was still ongoing), they faced long marches on foot in the bitter cold. Many prisoners could not withstand the journey and died.

"During the Great Patriotic War and after the surrender of Nazi Germany, a huge number of Wehrmacht soldiers were captured by the Soviets. Modern German historians estimate the total at 3.2-3.6 million (including all those missing in action). Their Russian colleagues, citing Russian archives, give a more modest figure of 2.3-2.4 million soldiers, officers, and generals. Nearly 400,000 of them died in captivity.

By comparison, more than 5,730,000 Soviet soldiers were captured by the Germans. 3.3 million of them died, including hundreds of thousands executed."

Col Durnford Supporting Member of TMP12 Oct 2025 7:39 a.m. PST

"Including hundreds of thousands executed". What's the breakdown on who did the executions? What percentage where killed by their fellow Soviets for allowing themselves to be captured?

Cuprum212 Oct 2025 6:23 p.m. PST

The Nazis considered Slavs subhuman, and therefore Russians (as well as Poles, Ukrainians, Belarusians, and most other peoples of the USSR in the planned German occupation zone) were to be physically exterminated at the end of hostilities. For this purpose, the "Hunger Plan" was developed and partially implemented. It was this plan that caused the USSR's enormous losses—people were simply deliberately exterminated:

link

Naturally, Soviet prisoners of war became the very first victims of this plan. Of those captured in 1941, only a very few survived. Soviet prisoners of war were simply herded into huge camps, surrounded by barbed wire, lacking even barracks and any basic living conditions, given almost no food, and left to winter in the open air in the Russian winter. The result was predictable:

link

Afterward, the Germans, realizing that the war would be long and they needed additional labor, stopped treating the prisoners so irrationally and began sending them to work for the Reich.

As for the repressions against prisoners of war in the USSR, they were carried out on just under 250,000 people released from captivity. Given the number of prisoners of war at six million, these are rather modest figures. Those who collaborated with the Nazis in one form or another were subject to repression.

link

You see, after the end of the First Cold War, the archives of the former Soviet Union were opened, and Western archival documents were increasingly declassified. And anti-Soviet propaganda myths began to crumble one by one… Actually, so did Soviet propaganda myths.
However, new ones are being actively created now. This is an information war…

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