"Sword and the Flame SYW Europe frontier" Topic
14 Posts
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03 Oct 2025 9:11 p.m. PST
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 John the OFM  | 03 Oct 2025 9:33 a.m. PST |
A friend made a haul at the flea market. "At the bottom of the box" that the guy didn't want to bring home were about 100 SYW figures. I said, "Hey! They look like Grenz and Pandours." With 30 horseless hussars. "Here John. See what you can do with them."
Extensive research (Google is your friend, but first you need to know what you're looking for!) Yep. All Austrian SYW. I have no Turks, but plenty of AWI Germans. Including mounted jaegers I bought in a fit of madness. Plus the ever cheerful, ready to join anyone's army, Lauzun's Legion. So, here's a preliminary stab at doing some kleine krieg goodness.
My usual fallback is of course TSATF. Here are my mods and rulings. I received units of 10, so 10 it is! Therefore NO stragglers. Also only an Ace of Hearts kills leaders. Rolling poorly in melee is of course fatal. No rifles, except designated jaegers. And maybe even them. Research! All others use carbine stats and ranges for muskets. As "normal" TSATF I feel that the turn length gives ample time to reload. (Meaning, I can't be bothered to track it…) Prussian and Austrian Regular troops use British lines, modified for carbine.
Grenz and Pandours use Egyptian lines, modified.
Croats and Bosnians use Boer morale but Egyptian shooting.
Truly ragged scum can choose Dervish, or Croat stats. (I just noticed that my FIW Coureurs de Bois look twins of Bosnian irregulars.) Dragoon and Hussars as the book. I haven't yet decided if they can fire mounted. If I allow it, they will probably need to spend a turn inactive to reload. They are mounted, after all.
Lancers get a +1 in the first turn of melee. I haven't yet decided on final rules. I may just use Jim Purky's (Der Alte Fritz) rules. One page!
I have months before I get to them. Slow me, I'm working on my Wild West stuff first. I have the Osprey book on Austrian Frontier and the Helion one on SYW light troops. Acquired after the gift. Im using TSATF 20th anniversary edition. |
| John the OFM | 03 Oct 2025 10:03 a.m. PST |
"Legacy" AWI Brunswick and Hessian figures include Foundry figures actually sold as SYW Freikorps. Like musketeers without lapels.
Lauzun's Legion came with optional pelisse as Freikorps hussars.
Minden has mounted jaegers, who will of course be more useful as dragoons.
Hinchliffe dismounted dragoons!
RSM Bosnian irregular troops. |
| John the OFM | 03 Oct 2025 10:11 a.m. PST |
Was the practice of backing jaegers without bayonets with grenadiers an AWI expedient practice, or SYW?
If I give my jaegers rifles, that seems prudent. 5 jaegers plus 5 grenadiers per "platoon"? |
| Grattan54 | 03 Oct 2025 10:35 a.m. PST |
Given that you did the same for the Am Rev I am sure this will also come out very well done. |
 ColCampbell | 03 Oct 2025 12:07 p.m. PST |
Sounds like a good plan, John. Looking forward to seeing what happens with them. Jim P.S. See my PM. |
| John the OFM | 03 Oct 2025 12:18 p.m. PST |
I saw it, Jim. And thanks.
I'm operating on the off the cuff assumption that Regulars are good and Grenzers and Pandours are so cute but they just need to try harder. 😄🤷
And, yes. Their uniforms are rather splashy. |
| Frederick | 03 Oct 2025 6:03 p.m. PST |
Good plan – and it hard to beat those Grenzer uniforms! |
 Dal Gavan | 04 Oct 2025 2:15 p.m. PST |
Was the practice of backing jaegers without bayonets with grenadiers an AWI expedient practice, or SYW? Prussian jäger and Freikorps, and A-H grenzer, all had bayonets, John. The Hessian (Kassel) jäger didn't (but they did have lapels), but I don't know whether they were backed up by musketeers/fusiliers/grenadiers. Like musketeers without lapels. Lapels were a regimental distinction and there were a lot of musketeer and fusilier regiments, in all the (major) armies, who didn't have them (including the entire Russian infantry). Their uniforms are rather splashy. If you want a mix of uniforms in one grenz unit then just say they're from 1756-1758, John. New uniforms were being introduced and it's unlikely they were all replaced at once, so you could have different companies in different uniforms. As well as different headgear (the early uniform included an hussar-like bearskin with bag- retained for the grenadier companies through the SYW- or mirliton), some changes were minor- eg the early Karlstädter-Lykaner Grenzer had the same uniform colours, but lacked most of the frogging and piping of the new (and most often illustrated) uniform. In contrast the Slavonisch-Brooder Grenzer went from a standard Hungarian infantry uniform to the "normal" grenz rig, while the Karlstädter-Ottochaner Grenzer swapped the colours of their dolman and pelisse (and added the usual heaps of braid and frogging). You probably already have this link, but just in case: link |
| John the OFM | 05 Oct 2025 1:07 p.m. PST |
Oh, yes. I'm familiar with the site.
I think they fell to me because I used the magic words "Grenzers" and "Pandours".
So I got them.
Then it fell to me to figure out which was which. 🤷
Thus the Osprey and Helion books. 🙄
The figures turned out to be all Austrian, but Hussars only need a paint job to differentiate them. And I have Prussians covered through the AWI. 🙄 Before this, to me, the SYW in Europe was merely an annoying mass slaughter spectacle in Europe (duh!) fought in obscure states with umlauts. At least the SYW in America was kind of local, and half the combatants spoke English. |
| Dal Gavan | 05 Oct 2025 1:52 p.m. PST |
fought in obscure states with umlauts. LOL. Quite apt, too, but don't forget the French, Spanish, Italians, Scandinavians and eastern Europeans. They also liberally sprinkled diacritical marks all over an otherwise perfectly useable alphabet. |
| John the OFM | 05 Oct 2025 2:18 p.m. PST |
I'm even painting up the SYW in Mexico, with Comanche annoying the Spanish.
Plus of course FIW.
But up to now I've avoided Europe. For reasons above. 🙄
If I just consider Grenzers Coureurs de Bois and Pandours to be Apaches, I shouldn't stray too far from my familiar comfort zone. |
| Dal Gavan | 05 Oct 2025 3:05 p.m. PST |
Whereas the great battles of the WAS and SYW- which gave Prussia the step up it needed to become the scourge of the next two centuries- are what interest me. If nothing else, John, those Austrian transplants should add a little colour to your red-, off-white- and buckskin-clad armies.  |
 piper909 | 05 Oct 2025 4:55 p.m. PST |
This all sounds like ever so much pretty fun! |
| John the OFM | 05 Oct 2025 8:50 p.m. PST |
Austria and Prussia had governments that could afford style and fashion. Unlike the Americas. 🙄
Cheap tightwads. |
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finds bridges to match the river sets.
