 Sgt Slag  | 22 Sep 2025 2:40 p.m. PST |
YouTube Link A few days/weeks ago, there was a posting about how the US Tariffs were destroying the gaming markets for overseas sellers who rely upon US customer sales. The video linked above, is a counterpoint to the lamentations against the tariffs which apparently went fully live on 29 August 2025. It is not all bad news. It does, however, mean sellers need to change how they do business. The video is pretty good at explaining what it means, both for sellers (foreign and domestic), as well as US customers. It is not political, IMO, Just the facts Ma'am. Let the churning of keyboards begin. Cheers! |
| pmwalt | 22 Sep 2025 3:20 p.m. PST |
Thanks for sharing. The video was a good explanation of how the cancellation of the deminimus rule affects the market. |
| Sgt Slag | 22 Sep 2025 4:23 p.m. PST |
I really did not understand the whole of it, until I watched that video. He did a superb job explaining it. I was shocked at what prices I saw for imported items, including jewelry, for a couple of Dollars! Now it makes sense. That deminimus rule was really something. Cheers! |
 Parzival | 22 Sep 2025 7:38 p.m. PST |
Very well explained. And yes, "de minimus" is confusing, and was indeed being abused by foreign manufacturers to cripple domestic US competitors. And that just ended. "But what about my toys?"
The solution for overseas miniatures makers is simple: contract with a US-based company to produce the miniatures domestically. The overseas IP holders can send these domestic contractors either physical masters (at some cost, but a once-per-master occurrence, so spread out over multiple sales and thus minimal in the long run), or digital files via the Internet (at no effective cost at all). The contractor makes and distributes the product for a small percentage, and the foreign IP holder avoid customs, tariffs and other international shipping or handling expenses entirely. Also, by the way, I believe that rulebooks should be exempt from tariffs and custom duties/fees, as they are considered "publications", which the IAPEE and the US Constitution protect under the 1st Amendment— a tax on such things being effectively a law restricting such things. (The IAPEE specifically discusses "information" as being excluded from any such regulations or government-imposed costs.) I'm not clear on whether the change in the De Minimus loophole will affect things, but it would seem to me that any federal custom fees would likely be seen as an unconstitutional restriction on freedom of the press. But that's my speculation, so do your research! |
| Martin Rapier | 23 Sep 2025 5:57 a.m. PST |
"The solution for overseas miniatures makers is simple: contract with a US-based company to produce the miniatures domestically" LOL. Good luck with that. They said much the same thing after Brexit. Fine if you are eg Nissan, but instead small manufacturers just stopped selling abroad and/or went bust. |
| Parzival | 23 Sep 2025 6:32 a.m. PST |
Gonna call for names there. What significant miniature makers have closed shop due to Brexit? Stop and think for a second. There are several US-based miniature makers who produce product domestically. Some are basically mom-and-pop shops, some are significantly larger with multiple employees (Reaper comes to mind). It's just not that big of a dollar investment to make metal figurines. If you're a foreign manufacturer and you've got a notable and profitable customer base in the US, finding someone to cast figures from molds you supply should not be an overly tasking or expensive challenge. It might be an "add-on" effort for some already existing manufacturers, or even a simple expansion. There's no reason for the minis "not to flow." |
 Extra Crispy  | 23 Sep 2025 7:27 a.m. PST |
Unless you are GW or Reaper, it is simply not feasible to manufacture in both the US and the UK if you have a significant product line. Firstly, the profit from even a wide product line is TINY. You do not do this to "make money" but for love of the hobby. Secondly, the start up cost to do so is beyond the resources of almost any manufacturer. For example, a mold costs about $150. USD And they weigh a ton. So let's assume you send masters and your partner makes the molds for you. If you have a very small range of, say, 100 packs, that's up front costs of $150,000. USD The old Gladiator range had nearly 900 packs, for reference. Just their Hellenics alone had over 50. All right, let's assume you make molds as you go. You make a mold of 15mm figures, which yields 3 packs per spin. You get an order for three packs. You see revenue of, being very generous, $20 USD, against a cost of $150 USD + cost of goods. So let's assume a loss on that order of $140. USD Further, how many more sales will it take just to break even on the mold? As far as I know no mini makers closed up due to Brexit. But it's a cottage industry. They just made less money, assuming customers bought less based on shipping and logistics costs. Really, this will just add to the momentum of 3D printing which will replace metal casting in a few years. |
| Extra Crispy | 23 Sep 2025 7:28 a.m. PST |
Worth noting that "de minimus" applied both ways. If I shipped to the UK smaller orders went through under "de minimus." Same for most countries I shipped to. |
| Sgt Slag | 23 Sep 2025 7:28 a.m. PST |
The video also discussed the option to work with in-USA distributors. This would avoid the $80 USD custom fees per item. Not sure how it would work, but if they had to pay it, it would likely only apply to one shipment to their distributor. The video person was clear that Temu, e-Bay, and Etsy sellers could still do business selling in the USA, but they would need to do things differently, and the days of super-cheap, super-low-quality products, would be over because they could no longer flood the market to squeeze out US companies. To me, it levels the playing field. The sellers who dumped low quality products on the US markets for very little money, are the ones who will be hurt the most (China). I'm okay with that. Cheers! |
| Desert Fox | 23 Sep 2025 8:14 a.m. PST |
Will tariffs accelerate the movement towards 3D printing? Instead of selling the actual physical figure or molds, will more "manufacturers" sell the file of the figure? The customer can then print-at-home or have a service print it out for them, either for local pickup or shipped to them. I would love to see miniature companies make their figures available for 3D printing. I know this brings up a host of other questions regarding resizing files, overhead, and profit margins from only selling one file of "18mm Napoleonic French 1812 Infantry advancing" as opposed to a whole armies worth in metal. I am surprised more miniature companies are not doing this already. |
| Parzival | 23 Sep 2025 10:18 a.m. PST |
I think your math is off, ExtraC. If it's $150 USD to make each mold, that's $15,000 USD upfront fee for a 100 line range, not $150,000. USD Assume 100 minis made for each mold (10,000 minis), that's $1.50 USD per mini to cover the cost of the mold. Since you suggest a unit price of $20 USD, that's $18.50 USD profit per fig, so $185,000 USD profit on 100 models per mold. Other expenses apply. But let's say you're imagining a "unit" being 10 figures (high for some games, low for others.) That makes the cost per unit $15 USD (ignoring other expenses). So now you need 10 units (of 10) sold to recoup the mold cost, with all other figures now being pure profit, at least as far as the mold is concerned. Make it $20 USD for the unit, and you only need to sell 8 units (rounding up) to recover mold costs for each element of the mold line (80 figs per mold). So the math doesn't support your argument. |
| Parzival | 23 Sep 2025 10:28 a.m. PST |
I'm also curious as to whether works of art, which are protected by the First Amendment, are exempt from tariffs and custom duties. And if so, could miniature figurines (that is, sculptures and very much works of art) be exempt? (Probably not, as toys aren't exempt. But a singular sculpture, as a master… that might well be exempt!) |
| DeRuyter | 23 Sep 2025 10:37 a.m. PST |
Sgt Slag: Yes, it is a good thing that cheap crap from Temu may be gone, but US based competition for those goods has been made in SE Asia for years anyway. So, you will still see an increase in prices unless you have a good entirely made in the US which you will pay more for due to higher cost of manufacturing. The Etsy example is not a fair comparison because you still have small home-based businesses there, including things like terrain and other gaming accessories. I was just on Esty looking at terrain from a UK seller and a warning popped up about extra payments due to the tariffs. |
| Extra Crispy | 23 Sep 2025 10:39 a.m. PST |
@Parzival: My bad. But the $20 USD was for three packs total or just under $7 USD per pack. Looking at metal historicals where one pack= 4 25mm or 8 15mm foot figures. So you need to sell about 20 packs to pay for the mold. You'll do that with some packs quickly – line infantry for example. But not for command packs which sell much more slowly. Obviously in a 40k type games where one figure retails for $15 USD-30 much easier to do. But take for example QRF who have a SCUD-B model. I seriously doubt you'll ever break even on that mold. So again, both our maths are off but in the end 3D printing is the future. |
| Sgt Slag | 23 Sep 2025 1:53 p.m. PST |
I like the idea of 3D printing… The resin is quite toxic, it is not yet plug-n-play reliable. It has a lot of maturing to do in its technology. Eventually, it will get there. Maybe some day, resin will be made from soybeans? They make dang near everything from soybeans. LOL! American farmers would rejoice if non-toxic, non-brittle resin for 3D printers could be made from soybeans -- heck, even I would rejoice! ROFL! Cheers! |
| LaserGrenadier | 23 Sep 2025 6:38 p.m. PST |
How many US companies are lining up to produce super cheap, super low-quality products? |
| Parzival | 23 Sep 2025 7:26 p.m. PST |
If there's a demand? Hundreds, if not thousands. The US is not even today immune from manufacturing utter carp. |
| YogiBearMinis | 24 Sep 2025 4:15 a.m. PST |
Seriously?!? Discussion of tax policy using the YouTube channel of a minor huckster trying to sell online finance nonsense? This is on the same level as running around during Covid and using the YouTube videos of a dentist from Montana to argue the CDC didn't know what it they are talking about. What's next, discussion of historical army lists based on research using children's Highlights magazines from the 1950s, and their articles on the Roman army? |
| FlyXwire | 24 Sep 2025 5:02 a.m. PST |
YBM – enjoyed your post above. :))) |
| Parzival | 24 Sep 2025 6:18 a.m. PST |
*Shrug* It's a springboard for discussion. And it's actually not a bad assessment of what the De Minimus concept was, and how it has been abused. After that, it's just us all chatting. If you want to offer a relevant factual argument one way or the other, please do so. |
| OSCS74 | 24 Sep 2025 1:44 p.m. PST |
Thank you for your posting! Perhaps my wife will stop getting ripped off. 99% of my minis were sold in the US. So that is not going to change. |
| rxpjks1 | 24 Sep 2025 2:48 p.m. PST |
My personal experience with the way things are now. I ordered some miniatures from England before the tariffs. It came to 57 pounds including shipping. Went to reorder the same miniatures the new price was 71 pounds. No price increase on the actual miniatures. |
