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"Barons War - Looking for 2 Coats of Arms / Flags" Topic


4 Posts

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156 hits since 1 Sep 2025
©1994-2025 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

DukeWacoan Supporting Member of TMP Fezian01 Sep 2025 9:25 a.m. PST

Looking for the following -

1. Something to use for the City of London forces, although I can just use the commander's banner if needed.

2. The younger Montforts (I have Simon and Henry)
Guy Montfort
Simon Montfort the Younger

3. Something as the "Baron" Army Standard, though likely nothing. I have Simon's banner for his bodyguard, but he had a wagon of sorts. Looking for a banner for that. My understanding is that William Blount carried the Army Standard.

4. Henry of Almain (Richard Cornwell's son)

GurKhan01 Sep 2025 1:11 p.m. PST

According to link 'A reference in Liber Custumarum (COL/CS/01/006) refers to the service of Robert Fitz-Walter, Castellain of London, who died in 1235, in which he receives from the Mayor the banner of the City "of bright red, with a figure of St Paul in gold, with the feet and hands and head in silver and a sword in the hand of the said figure".' That would probably be the flag used by the London militia.

Wikimedia link has a pic it suggests is Henry of A's arms, but in fact it's just the same as his father's – compare link Since Richard of Cornwall was still alive during the war, you could just use the same coat and add a label.

PDF link says that the arms of Simon de Montfort's sons, thus including both Simon the Younger and Guy, were on the parents' tomb in Paris and are all the lion arms that Simon the Elder used. Doesn't mention whether they used any cadency marks to distinguish them.

GildasFacit Sponsoring Member of TMP02 Sep 2025 2:09 a.m. PST

A bit early for the cadency marks to be standardised but a label for the firstborn was known before that. Still some instances of father & sons all depicted using the same arms at this time but debatable if that is proof it was commonplace on the battlefield. French/Norman practice was quite possibly different to English.

DukeWacoan Supporting Member of TMP Fezian02 Sep 2025 9:13 a.m. PST

Cadency is a good idea.

I see at Lewes a lot had labels, so I might mix that. Henry is shown with a label.

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