"Dutch and his ruby slippers..." Topic

Yeah, gets worse.

Thinking of the YouTube videos on snow piercer and Wille Wonka and the chocolate factory.

They suggested SP was a sequel to Wonka, as it had the same theme and type of people.

In fact, it seems they just likely follow the same underlying story.

Jurassic Park, Wizard of Oz, and Predator may be others.

I haven't watched SP or Wonka for a while, so may be rusty.

Note, snow piercer is mostly absent, at this point.

They all begin with a main character in blue (dress, shirt, top, Dutch no idea) and a red thing (scarf, shoes, shirt, Charlie no idea)

They win a prize (factory tour, 3 years dig, arm wrestle, Dorothy no idea) then go from their dull place they know well (bw, military bace??, Dusty desert, poverty), to a wonderland carnival ride (jungle ghost train, Oz, tropical resort, factory tour)

Travel via air (tornado, choppers, Wonka??)

People in the group get picked off one at a time. Including a tough guy in hat with gun (cowboy kid, Blaine, Muldoon, possibly Tin man), fat one about chocolate (fat kid in chocolate river, nedry in deluge near mud river, Dutch in river and mud??, Oz no idea)

Someone bad had a house fall on them (witch, genero/Malcolm, predator, Wonka no idea)

Hero clacks things together to go home (slippers, big bullets-sorry Dutch, Alan's gun/Elle pumping…, Wonka no idea)

The villain is unmasked at the end (Wizard, predator, Hammond's lies?, I think Wonka finally broke??)

The villain has a long weapon (witches wond?, Canes, gun turret.

It's about lots of little Goldy things all put together. (Food/carriages-snow piercer, yellow bricks, amber, bullets??)

The hero's all take a white friend (Ellie, toto, grandfather, Dillon in white shirt)

Certainly more than coincidence.

There truly is nothing new under the sun. Not even that statement.

There are only seven stories. Shakespeare used them all, but he stole them from earlier authors …

This goes deeper than that.

For example, I watched JP and predator last night.

There were many shots that were perfectly aligned. Many very humerus.

"That is one big pile of".., Blaine's dead body.

Looking at his dead body on the ground/the trike.

So many, shot for shot.

That's not just basing it on the same story.

However JP reads to book of Genesis, but it still doesn't explain shot for shot similarity.

I believe it's legal.

They just pick a film in public domain and edit to that. Same with the underlying story, just pick a public domain story. They would typically be the same, I'd guess, sharing an underlying story.

Then when someone says they stole their story/movie, they just say, no, we stole that public domain one.

When you watch movies together, you'll see what I mean, it's not just the same type of story, it's often exactly the same shot set up. There would be many ways to shoot things, it would be rare for two shots to be the same, let alone so many, without directly copying something.

Another similarity between the two, although not linier from the starts, is the hostage/goat on his knees that gets killed.

Just so many.

Also of interest, linier from the start is the films reveals of an Asian character, Anna and wu at the same time.

PS

Just because there may be 7 types of story, some suggest more, I'd doesn't explain the similarity.

You could write a story of a type, yet not have it a direct copy, like what I've been seeing. Heck, you could throw out chiasmus, fractal, algorithm, all that, and still have a movie. Great? Who knows!

But can you actually just not have it???

An issue I see is what Dutch has that's blue?

However, Mac does have the blue razor.

With more traveling characters than Oz, could Mac and Dutch both be Dorothy? Toto/Dillon make them a trio easy enough.

Mac also reminisces about what life was like elsewhere before, like Dorothy may have??

Yes, Oz is on my list.

So, characters.

Dutch and Mac – Dorothy.
Dillon – Toto. White companion taken.
Blaine – Tin man. Died by heart.
Billy – lion? Died by courage.
Anna – munchkins, as like wu in JP, they represent a numerous work force, key to the situation, like umpalumpas in Wonka and perhaps, the kids running the train in snow piercer.
Leaving Poncho or Hawkins as the scarecrow. They are both into communications, being radio and translation.
Predator – wizard.
General – family back home.

Something to work with/on.

Actually, Poncho is religious, perhaps like the scarecrow on his "cross"??

Also note the predators green eyes and blood, akin to the emerald City on Oz. If not the entire jungle.

Remember, it was a to-do when all the leaves died off the trees between scouting and filming. They had people sticking on green leaves and such.

JP is also in green vegetation, as are the vehicles and jello.

Wonka and snow piercer??

I believe Oz ends with a big head and a wizards reveal?? JP does that with t rex, predator with predators mouth. Plus green jello/blood on mouth near end.

I have to watch the wizard of Oz…

Well I watched it, by itself.

So, the lion keeps holding and playing with his tail tip, like is, oh I don't know, a luckily charm like Billy's.

The predator scene with "what the **** are you, what the **** are you?" Plays out with the big head asking, "who are you, who are you?"

Very reminiscent of doctor who with zoannon?? asking "who am I, who am I?" Possibly among the best scenes from who. Zoannon regresses from the doctor's voice to a child's, much like the wizard of Oz from a big head to a little man. Or predator from a killing machine to a humanoid.

I believe being told of the yellow brick road reminiscent of a certain poor dog, and it's all curled, broken. Something to keep an eye on.

The scene of the companions watching the witches gate and marching troops was very return of the king, especially as the then adopt the uniforms to sneak in unnoticed.

Oh yes. Strange Fruit.

As wizard of Oz has apples, predator has bodies.

Greif!

As thet appear at first painful parts of the tree to remove, then are used as missiles against the enemy.

As return of the king "release the prisoners" with Gondor heads shot from catapults at the enemy.

Or the imprisoned goats leg dropping on the car in JP.

Or the gun shooting the hostage who drops to the ground in predator.

Fun times.

Apples weren't prisoners, but Dorothy was.

So prisoners being dropped by a weapon may be key (let's call the rex a weapon, it was made)

Dorothy and co have a conversation with the gate keeper, as does JP with the cd rom, ROTK with the mouth of Sauron, perhaps the short "knock, knock" in predator??

The gate keeper is promptly shortened. The wizards guard steps down, the mouth's head is cut off, perhaps king Kong's mention shortened the cd rom??

Dah, idiot!

JP, gate keeper! Smack.

Geoffrey! Sorry!

Yes, there is the/a gate keeper, who is promptly shortened by falling a distance.

They also vanish from the story thereafter.

There is also a hand operated tool, a door knocker, a sword swing, a hand grab "shoot her!"

But that type of stuff is just this all over.

Does JP lost world work?

Gate keeper? Strange fruits? Killing hostages?

Nothing springs to mind.

Just a test.

I feel the lion as Billy looks to pan out. Billy may be the natural one in the group, indian tracker style, as the lion is in his group (Toto's domesticated). Billy cuts himself at the end, and the lion sports a red bow. They are both likely to stalk their prey. They tail/talisman fiddling.

I watched predator and the Wizard of Oz (Judy Garland)…

Certainly playing from the same thing.

Had trouble starting it, ended up having the chopper fly in with Dorothy's entrance.

Then Oz paused inexplicably just before Dillon got killed. Twice! Played fine on another player days earlier??

In not sure on my lining up when skipping the problem spot, but it worked regardless!

Many interesting things.

So much lines up exactly. Many humerus bits.

Dorothy's landing, then opening the door to colour both play to the first "pred vision".

Dutch dazed at the end, with doraphy waking up.

The curled start of the yellow brick road with the yellow scorpion tail. Just after the poor dog, so I wasn't far off.

The witches squaring off as Dutch and Dillon have their spat.

Note scar crow gets floored by flying monkeys, as poncho does by the flying log.

Poncho crying "I can make it" to the gate keeper crying.

There are a couple of song lyrics that play to Mac. Off hand some people may say the words suggestive, however real meanings are benign (though one in particular is branded about all the time these days.). But still humerus, in regards to my topic on the subject.

The entire base attack is a hoot! Beginning with Dutch and the truck to the horse and carts, explosions into song, the whole nine yards. Worth it for that alone!

"Bleed you real slow and leave you here"? A blue stream. Remember Mac has a blue razor. Infact it's be blue razor that does the bleeding as Dillon watches from a safe distance, then doesn't leave Mac running away alone. Ah, chiasmus.

Obviously some scenes work better then others, but lining up other scenes would solves this. The strange Fruit scenes don't line up, but would likely play well together regardless, for example.

Maybe JP next?

Looking into the themes of the wizard of Oz and Predator.

They both feature camoflauge, with the initial munchkins and obviously the predator. Plus both the witches and predator appearing and disappearing and flying.

The oddity that is the horse of many colours, and it's shoehorned prior mention, not only feel similar to the predators own chameleon abilities, but also the multicoloured effect of its vision.

The wizard of Oz has been mentioned to be an alien abduction story. Making predator the exact opposite, with the alien willingly coming here and getting probed in the head by a log.

In both, although there is magic/science of great power, the enemy is ultimately defeated by something quite simple and unexpected, water and a not for Disney log ride. In both cases, the enemy set themselves up for defeat by putting themselves in that position in the first place, not paying attention or thinking things through. The predator got cocky, thinking he avoided a trap, while the witch was too intent on torturing the scarecrow that she didn't think of the likely consequences.

They are both braught down to size, as is the wizard.

With all the handsome macho men around, and cute las, the term "only bad witches are ugly," is made prominent with the "ugly -thingamajig-" as mentioned by Dutch at the end (and everyone else in the special features).

PS

Being ultimately killed by something simple, although holding superior power??

War of the world's!?!?

Worth thinking about.

Just watched a video on movie plot holes.

Signs!

Apparently the aliens fear of water was a plot holes??

But, yes the aliens are harmed by water, just like a certain witch, and a chubby chap who doesn't think much of dog like dinosaurs.

Ha, the Adam/god motif with nedry and the dilophosaur is mirrored in the witch reaching for the candles with the broom.

Can't remember much about signs, a kid who leaves water everywhere, a chap who failed at baseball, an absent mother. Perhaps the father is humbled by the experience??

The predator reaches up for the sharpened stick, nedry throwes the stick, the broom is a stick, as is the baseball bat. All about the same point, just before the enemy is defeated.

All with death at the end, sharp trap, "extinct", fire, the glass being hit. Yet it's not the fatal thing. It's the log, venom, water, water. All pretty much the opposite of each other.

Even Bernie's weekends weren't this much fun.

Watched Radius.

Great film, must be low budget, but few characters and great story made it look like a high level release.

***Spoilers***

The dead guy lying on his side and then the close up on his eye, did not escape me.

Nor the big lightning orb.

Or the mass cop kill.

Yes, Terminator.

Terminator and Radius.

What are you doing tonight?

Unfortunately I sold my original Terminator DVD, before watching a YouTube video on the subject, so only have the definitive edition to use. For now.

Other key points that spring to mind.

A man and woman on the run.

The printing business, a bit like the factory, both with machinery.

Lighting.

I suspect her twin photos could be endos from the future war scene. Dah, or the fact there are at least two sarah Conners, idiot.

Treaded tractor-tank.

The car going off the road at the start, followed by the bird falling could be the resistance car crash and Ariel hunter killer crash.

The diner scenes at the start.

Fighting the three punks/preppers??

The endo is revealed in fire, this chap water.

Triggered by lighting the fire/pipebomb.

Villain has a book of women's names who are killed.

Watching tv, as seen from behind the set only. First I thought it just a cheap trick in Radius, now it seems more deliberate.

Radius and Terminator go hand in hand.

Funny bits were one film taking direction from the other.