 Parzival  | 18 Aug 2025 6:48 a.m. PST |
link This is an incredible effort by the translator. Awaiting peer review, but the work sounds solid, and the scholar can point to other finds at the site to support the translation. Note that the inscription is indicative of a clear conflict between Moses' followers, who worship "El," and the local temple to Ba'alat, an early Egyptian goddess. The text condemns her worshipers and calls their actions and beliefs "sins." I believe this stark dismissal and animosity to be consistent with Mosaic monotheism. (Pagans don't typically condemn other gods, but absorb them or connect them to their own beliefs— and pagans wouldn't defy a god, even one they don't uphold— because they assume all gods are powerful and you don't want to directly defy any of them. You may like Athena more than Ares, but you don't do anything to anger Ares, either.) So an interesting discovery, and a tie-in into Biblical era conflicts. How did this inscription come about? Were the worshippers of El secure enough to actually carve lengthy messages in stone— a time consuming affair? Had they conquered the temple, or were the inscriptions simply in areas that worshipers of Ba'alat would not enter? Was this carving meant to be a curse— religious/magical sabotage? (Suppose that the temple was built with slave labor from the worshipers of El. The latter carve the curse into stone and include it in the building in a place unlikely to be seen by the Ba'alatites (say that three times fast)? Total speculation on my part. Could be an interesting scenario). |
 StoneMtnMinis | 18 Aug 2025 7:22 a.m. PST |
Fascinating article! Thanks for posting this.  |
| Lascaris | 18 Aug 2025 7:50 a.m. PST |
Very interesting find although I might think your comment regarding pagans somewhat overstated. There are numerous examples of pagan intolerance, Nero, Domitian, Decius, Julian the Apostate, Suppression of Bacchic cults, Tiberius expulsion of Jews, Plato's Laws, etc. I think intolerance of differences among people is hard-wired into the human psyche regardless of the subject. |
 Sgt Slag | 18 Aug 2025 8:17 a.m. PST |
Fascinating article. Thanks for sharing. Cheers! |
| Frederick | 18 Aug 2025 9:03 a.m. PST |
Great article but I have to agree with Lascaris – depending on who you were, you might be quite so tolerant – the Romans were overall fairly tolerant of other religions as long as you paid your taxes and didn't rebel as were the Persians – the Egyptians, not so much – and the Incans were tolerant of other gods as long as you acknowledged the Incan gods as numero uno |
| Andrew Walters | 18 Aug 2025 9:33 a.m. PST |
That is really interesting. I look forward to more… |
| Parzival | 18 Aug 2025 2:16 p.m. PST |
Fair point on the Romans— they did tend to slam things that went against their cultural system (or promoted unruly social behavior and/or anti-Roman attitudes, probably more than anything). Otherwise, some of the faith behaviors Rome accepted are hard to comprehend in modern terms. On the other hand, nobody excludes like a monotheist! (And I say that while fully being one.) I'd love to see more from this, too. |
| Grelber | 18 Aug 2025 7:37 p.m. PST |
Interesting article. My understanding is that monotheists did not necessarily believe other beings did not exist, but that they believed they were more what we would consider demons than gods. Grelber |
| Captain Sensible | 19 Aug 2025 4:36 a.m. PST |
I would be cautious with this one. The Museum of the Bible has been caught previously presenting peices of the Dead Sea Scrolls that turned out to be forgeries. Let's see what the peer review has to say. |
| Black Bull | 19 Aug 2025 4:43 a.m. PST |
El worshippers weren't monotheistic they worshipped many other gods (Baal, Ishtar,etc) El was the high father god not the only one.
Seems like there is an assumption that these are Israelites when Canaanites would be far more likely as the first reference to Israel is 2-400 years after this inscription. |
| 35thOVI | 19 Aug 2025 6:15 a.m. PST |
This was in other news and archeology magazines a week ago or more, so not just this one. So other documentations. Interesting, even if not the same Moses. If they only said if he looked like Charlton Heston.🤔 😉 |
| Marcus Brutus | 19 Aug 2025 9:40 a.m. PST |
Seems like there is an assumption that these are Israelites when Canaanites would be far more likely as the first reference to Israel is 2-400 years after this inscription. Isn't that somewhat circular thinking? If this is reference to Moses then implicitly this is a reference to Israel. And if you accept David Rohl's new chronology of the ancient Middle East (which I do) then the above inscription intersects nicely with described events. |
| Dagwood | 19 Aug 2025 11:41 a.m. PST |
Moses isn't an Israeli name, I believe it's a common Egyptian one. Hence all those pharaohs with "Moses" as an element, eg, Tutmoses. |
| Marcus Brutus | 20 Aug 2025 8:17 a.m. PST |
You mean Moses isn't a Hebrew name. That is not correct. A simple internet search shows that the name Moshe (מֹשֶׁה) is derived from the Hebrew verb "mashah," meaning "to draw out" or "to pull out," according to the Torah. That makes sense in the context of Moses' birth story. Personally, I think it is a nickname for him but I have no proof of that. There are a few scholars who maintain an Egyptian connection but that is purely speculative and doesn't enjoy wide support in the academy. |
| 35thOVI | 20 Aug 2025 9:07 a.m. PST |
Marcus, don't disagree with you often, but I believe it was Egyptian first and taken by the Hebrews. 🙂 "Here's a more detailed breakdown: Hebrew Connection:
The name Moses is closely associated with the Jewish leader who led the Israelites out of Egypt. The Hebrew name Moshe is derived from the verb masha, meaning "to draw out". Egyptian Roots:
The name Moses is believed to have originated from the Egyptian word msy, which is part of many Egyptian names like Ramesses and Thutmose. This element means "to be born" or "child". Pharaoh's Daughter's Role:
According to the biblical account, Pharaoh's daughter found the baby Moses in the reeds and named him Moses, saying she drew him out of the water. This act of naming is what likely led to the association with the Hebrew word masha. Scholarly Debate:
While the biblical narrative links the name to the Hebrew verb, scholars generally agree that the name Moses, or its Egyptian equivalent, is of Egyptian origin. " |
| Marcus Brutus | 21 Aug 2025 5:57 a.m. PST |
This act of naming is what likely led to the association with the Hebrew word masha. If we use the principle of Occam's Razor then the Biblical account provides a completely sufficient explanation for the name "Moses." Moses is a Hebrew name. Otherwise, we are forced to embrace a more speculative explanation of the type you describe above. With this said, I have no doubt that Hebrew was deeply influenced by Ancient Egyptian during the many generational stay of the Israelites in Egypt. |
| Druzhina | 21 Aug 2025 9:05 p.m. PST |
There are some stories in the bible that include a pun, e.g:
Genisis 4:1
4 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the Lord. A footnote in the Good New Bible says: CAIN: This name sounds like the Hebrew for "gotten". So a simple explanation is that what Eve says is made up to fit the pun. Many ancient cultures believed that words had power. Similarly the 'drawing out of the child' story could have been made up because of a pun.
Druzhina
Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers
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| Parzival | 22 Aug 2025 11:16 a.m. PST |
Or it could have happened. There's nothing really remarkable about it. Mother knows where and when Pharaoh's daughter bathes, sends her own daughter with infant (in a tightly woven and pitched basket) and tells her to shove the basket in the direction of the princess, in a desperate attempt to save the baby's life. It works. Yes, it's a great story, but it's also an entirely feasible story, too. There is no reason whatsoever to discount it out of hand. |
| Marcus Brutus | 23 Aug 2025 2:40 p.m. PST |
So a simple explanation is that what Eve says is made up to fit the pun. The difference here is that Eve is obviously a mythic character (even if she did historically exist) in a Hebrew creation story. The Moses is the central character for the defining event of ancient Israel, the Exodus. If one doubts the historical underpinnings of the Exodus then one has to account for where this rather eccentric and novel story came from but there is nothing like it in the ancient near east. So punnery isn't really relevant here in my opinion. |
| Druzhina | 23 Aug 2025 4:17 p.m. PST |
The princess could have said fished out, or lifted or rescued, but 'drew out' was chosen. Why is an Egyptian princess speaking Hebrew? I doubt that 'drew out' is also a pun in ancient Egyptian. See also Arp, Joseph Knew First: Moses, the Egyptian Son, p191
The conspicuous Hebrew etymology provides an explanation for why the pharaoh's daughter called the child Moses (Moshe), because she drew (mashah) him out of the water. This pun involves a sound correlation between the name Moses and the verb to draw out. In this scenario, scholars
note that Moshe would be the active participle of the verb mashah, "he who draws out," instead of the expected passive participle mashu, "one drawn out."18 According to Marks, this Hebrew wordplay sets up the central theme for Moses's life, an uneasy negotiation between Moses's passive role as someone being drawn out by God, and his active role of drawing out Israel from Egypt as a deliverer. As Moses draws water for the daughters of Jethro in Midian and marries one of them, he draws Israel out of the sea of reeds19 and sadly draws water out of a rock incorrectly and is unable to enter the promised land. For Marks, "the question posed by Moses's name is the central question of the exodus itself."20 Druzhina
Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers |
| Marcus Brutus | 24 Aug 2025 12:10 p.m. PST |
Interesting, Druzhina that you cite an article from an LDS source? With that said, a bit further down the author writes, "The dual etymologies surrounding his name dramatize the inner duel Moses himself must have experienced as the adopted Egyptian child whom God calls to deliver the children of Israel. Part of this deliverance includes yet another twist on Moses's name as God commands Moses to threaten Pharaoh's son…" Note dual etymologies. But that has nothing to do with making a pun in either language. |
finally paints the first of his Gauls...
