"Pier Review: Lessons from Operation Neptune Solace" Topic
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 Editor in Chief Bill  | 07 Aug 2025 8:57 p.m. PST |
Conditions have deteriorated enough in Gaza that it is plausible the U.S. military could again be ordered to intervene to deliver humanitarian aid. Proceedings Magazine: link |
| David Manley | 08 Aug 2025 3:08 a.m. PST |
Those enormous Chinese jack-up pontoons would be useful here. Or maybe in the longer term just building a proper harbour |
Tortorella  | 08 Aug 2025 8:29 a.m. PST |
Build the harbor. The Israeli military has said the UN does a better job of aid distribution than the latest program….not hard. Get them back, even if it means reports that are critical of Netanyahu. |
| Grattan54 | 08 Aug 2025 9:53 a.m. PST |
Which is something Biden tried to do and it failed. So, not going to be easy. |
 Legion 4 | 08 Aug 2025 12:46 p.m. PST |
Former US Spec Ops are working with at least one relief agency are there now. For security, supply issue, etc. Again NO US Troops on the ground … That is a swamp and mission creep could once again, come about. US lives or Gazan's … We know the answer … Frankly I think just air drops from other nations is the safest. The IDF has been issuing food, aid, etc. for months. And as suspected there was some trouble with Hamas, etc. involvement, etc. I think we have to get it … Hamas, and their affiliated terrorists' groups, e.g. Al Axa, islamic jihad, etc., are not going to give up. As their requirements for peace are things Israel can't/won't do. The IDF knows if they leave Gaza, again. Hamas etc. they continue to do more 7 Octs, rocket attacks, etc. Just as what they were doing before the 7 Oct massacre. And said they do again … It may take time but sooner or later it will start all over again. Billions of aid money, etc. were given to Hamas, the Gov't of Gaza for decades. And much of it just went to funding their war on the Jews. Hamas is leaving IED/booby traps everywhere impeding IDF ops, including trying to find the remaining or remains of the hostages. It is clear Hamas, etc. cares little about its own people. They are pawns for their narrative and agenda of "from the river to the sea", etc. And most of Hamas are Gazans. Some caught in the middle, some supporting Hamas, etc. Again, classic insurgent warfare. You usually can't tell the fighters from the non-combatants. E.g. as we saw in Vietnam, A'stan, Iraq, etc. Much of the world is antisemitic it seems. The UN is rife with it. The US universities in many cases are the same. As well as many in Congress. Hamas, etc., knows this. They think they are "winning" with the anti-Jew riots seen in US universities, in the streets, support from some in the US Congress, etc. With UK, France, and Canada recognizing the Palestinians/Hamas are their own state. They talked about a 2-state solution. That is what Gaza was. The other state in the 2-state solution. The IDF will have to reoccupy Gaza… once again … The hostages must be found. No matter how many Hamas, etc. must be eliminated. There is no other option. And yes, again, Hamas, etc. cares little about their own people. The CD will continue … Until some other workable solution somehow comes about. This conflict will have to continue. Otherwise, Hamas etc. will go back to their plans for "Death to Israel" … and the cycle will start all over again. The US should help with aid to the Gazans. But anything else will just be a waste. Once again, we see the enemies of the West use our humanity against us. Regardless how much one tries to mitigate CD, etc. Many will still die … Because of Hamas, etc. |
| Tortorella | 08 Aug 2025 6:43 p.m. PST |
Nothing is ever certain over there, but there has to be a better way to get food in there. The IDF has enough to do. Grattan, the harbor needs to be something more substantial than the Biden effort, and with international help. The UN to return. IMO. Food in empty stomachs from the west may also weaken support for Hamas. I get how hideous Hamas has been, but this outcome does not seem right. |
| Dagwood | 09 Aug 2025 4:40 a.m. PST |
The Israeli government has a definition of anti-semitism that basically includes any criticism of the Israeli government and its policies. (It is that section that got Jeremy Corbin and others in the UK in trouble over their "anti-semitism".) |
| 35thOVI | 09 Aug 2025 11:41 a.m. PST |
"Roughly three-quarters (77%) of American Jews said they feel less safe as a Jewish person in the U.S. because of the October 7 attacks, with nine in 10 saying that antisemitism in the U.S. has increased since that fateful day."
…
"more American Jews say the extreme political left is a very serious antisemitic threat compared to 2021. "
..,
""The vitriol coming from the progressive left, which I once identified as my community, has been truly shocking," said one respondent, a Jewish woman from the South. "At this point, there isn't really a space in which it feels safe to say the words ‘I'm Jewish.'"" .. "‘I felt safer in Gaza than I do on that campus' Roughly half (48%) of U.S. Jewish college students say that they have felt uncomfortable or unsafe at a campus event because they are Jewish; avoided wearing, carrying or displaying things that could identify them as Jewish; or avoided expressing views on Israel on campus or with classmates because of fears of antisemitism.. Half (50%) of American Jewish college students say they noticed anti-Israel protests or demonstrations, and about four in 10 (42%) noticed pro-Palestinian encampments. For those who had noticed demonstrations, roughly half (51%) said those demonstrations made them feel very (25%) or somewhat (26%) unsafe." Yes, antisemitism currently has moved to the left. "From the river to the sea" and "Globalize the Intifada," being shouted on our collage campuses, is not calling everyone to bake cookies and send them to Israel. 🙄 I've seen the protests and heard them speaking online. They are made up mainly of young liberal women, Muslims , radical LBGTQ leftists, with a spattering of self hating Jews and liberal guys trying to get laid. They all believe western whites and their culture, are the bane of civilization and must be eradicated. That the world is divided into the white colonialist west and the subjugated dark skinned rest of the world. Jews are viewed as white and Hamas "freedom fighters" 🤬 and Palestinians as the dark skinned oppressed. Their logic and cause, goes no deeper than that. Subject: AJC's State of Antisemitism in America 2024 Report: Behind the Numbers | AJC
link If the Palestinians were not happy with Hamas, they could have risen up and attempted to obtain their freedom and independence. We did with the English.
They also elected them to boot. A Jihadi is a Jihadi. You don't elect them into power and allow them to stay unopposed, unless you share the beliefs and hates. But, I keep saying: Demand Hamas surrender! That is all it takes. Why is it the leftists never demand that? 🤔 |
| 35thOVI | 09 Aug 2025 11:46 a.m. PST |
All and Here are a just a few prominent examples of it from Democratic Congressman : "Representative Ilhan Omar (D-MN):
In 2019, Omar apologized for a tweet suggesting that support for Israel was "all about the Benjamins baby," a phrase widely interpreted as invoking antisemitic tropes about Jewish wealth and control. In 2021, she faced criticism from within her own party and from Republicans for a tweet that grouped the United States and Israel with Hamas and the Taliban, in a discussion about accountability for "crimes against humanity". Some Jewish members of Congress called on her to clarify her words, which they found deeply concerning and bordering on antisemitic tropes, according to the BBC. Representative Rashida Tlaib (D-MI): Tlaib has also faced accusations of antisemitism for her strong criticism of Israel, according to Politico. In 2023, a resolution was introduced to censure Tlaib, citing a history of "hateful and antisemitic statements" and remarks considered unbecoming of a member of Congress. Representative Hank Johnson (D-GA): In 2016, Johnson faced strong condemnation, including from the Simon Wiesenthal Center, for referring to Jewish settlers in Judea and Samaria as "termites". The Simon Wiesenthal Center called his statement beyond the pale and shaming to both the Congressman and Congress." There are more. |
 Dal Gavan | 09 Aug 2025 2:15 p.m. PST |
Dagwood +1 From one side's perspective- if you criticise Bibi/West Bank settlements/bombing of Gaza then you're anti-Semitic and support terrorism and jihadists. From the other side's perspective- if you criticise Hamas/Hezbollah/Palestinians resisting Israel's moves on the West Bank then you're a racist white-supremacist who wants to see the genocide of the Palestinian people first and all non-Caucasians eventually. As is usual these days the extremists rule the debate and defend their chosen saints, while average people and their kids keep dying- supposedly all in the name of religion. In reality it's all about power, egos and the rule of cretins. Again. |
| Legion 4 | 09 Aug 2025 6:08 p.m. PST |
By Legion 4's definition, about 50% of American Jews are anti-Semitic. I don't know where you got that … OVI +1
As is usual these days the extremists rule the debate and defend their chosen saints, while average people and their kids keep dying- supposedly all in the name of religion. In reality it's all about power, egos and the rule of cretins.Again. Yes that is as ever … However, until the Gaza Strip is under positive control. By no one affiliated with Hamas, etc. whatsoever. Has long as Hamas, etc. thinks they will get some sway from some nations, again they believe they will win. By turning everyone against Israel. Otherwise they have no choice but to go down fighting. Like the IJFs did at the end of WWII. Their fanatism eventually bought them the only way out. Short of most of their people dead. But we don't have the same paradigm today as we did then. The A-Bombs ended the war in the PTO. And in the long run saved not only allied lives but Japanese. The math is cold hard and simple … kill large numbers today to prevent even much larger numbers dying tomorrow. The Devil's alternative, some would say. IMO the point is to make it virtually impossible for another 7 Oct to ever happen again. As this war has been going on since '48. With breaks in between the next war(s). No matter what terms/words are use, e.g. Anti-Semitic, white supremacists, Nazis, etc., etc. The priority, the goal is/has to be not let another 7 Oct to occur. As if Iran was not supporting Hamas, Hezbollah, the Houthis, etc. And even attacking Israel … Most of the rest of the players in that region would generally get along with Isreal. Maybe not BFFs … But no 7 Oct(s), no rockets, drones and missiles, etc. that need to be shot down, etc., etc. To let Palestinians/Hamas, etc. reoccupy what is/will be left of Gaza. Without some very positive control, etc. by some entity(s). E.g. other Arab nations that don't want to kill Jews, the IDF or both working on concert. It will only be a matter of time before another 7 Oct, missiles flying in the air, etc. will begin again. That has to/should be the priority … End it … but to do that some more Hamas, etc. will probably have to die. Unless they decide to play ball. However, like ISIS, AQ, etc. they don't want the war against the Jews, the West, etc. to end. As they are possessed with killing the Jews, the infidels, anyone who is other than them. |
| Dal Gavan | 10 Aug 2025 1:51 a.m. PST |
Legion, I have no problems with terrorists filling up every available body-bag. There's no such thing as a good terrorist- even the dead ones stink. But there's more to this than just 07 OCT. It's a 81 Year (or longer) War and nobody has clean hands, with both the Israelis and the terrorists stirring the pot when it suits them. |
| Tortorella | 10 Aug 2025 4:35 a.m. PST |
Exactly Dal…. Being Jewish and being an Israeli right wing nationalist are not always the same thing. I believe that American Jews who abhor Hamas and disagree with Netanyahu are not acknowledged by the US Right. |
| 35thOVI | 10 Aug 2025 5:32 a.m. PST |
In the U.S., these are the indoctrinated you are dealing with: Subject: Visegrád 24 on X: "Anti-Israel "activists" have vandalized the entrance to the New York Times after it clarified that Gazan boy they write about in their "hunger article" actually suffered from a genetic disease The violent activists claim that the NYT now panders to Israel t.co/NV0Rs43YsF / X
link Facts don't matter. And these same indoctrinated zealots fill are MSM and spread the lies and false narratives. Subject: Ambassador Yechiel (Michael) Leiter on X: "The New York Times spread a lie about Israel across the world. And what'd they do when they were caught? Almost a week later, they shared a partial and weak correction with a tiny fraction of their followers. Too little, too late. @nytimes — mouthpiece for Hamas propaganda. t.co/Rx5bskohzb / X
link Subject: Huckabee slams ‘CBS' for selectively editing interview on Israel – JNS.org
link |
| Dal Gavan | 10 Aug 2025 1:49 p.m. PST |
I believe that American Jews who abhor Hamas and disagree with Netanyahu are not acknowledged by the US Right. It's SOP for extremists, Tort, isn't it? "If you're not 100% for us then you're a worthless untermensch/subhuman/animal and should be sent to the camps/gulags/gaol/Coventry." Facts don't matter. They never have when it comes to "causes", extremism, politics, screaming against society or selling advertising, 35th. |
| 35thOVI | 11 Aug 2025 4:35 a.m. PST |
Another example: "TikTok has removed a video by businesswoman and beauty influencer Huda Kattan in which she promoted conspiracy theories about Israel. The Iraqi-American entrepreneur, who is founder and CEO of the popular Huda Beauty brand, said in a video posted on Sunday that Israel was responsible for "every world war" including World War One and World War Two, as well as the September 11 and 7 October attacks." …. "The state of Israel was founded in 1948. World War One ended in 1918, and World War Two, during which millions of Jews were murdered in the Nazi Holocaust, ended in 1945. In the video to her 1.7 million followers, Kattan claimed there was evidence that "Israel has been behind World War One, World War Two", as well as al-Qaeda's 11 September 2001 attacks on the US and the 7 October 2023 attack by Hamas on Israel, during which about 1,200 people were killed and 251 others were taken hostage. "I had a feeling, I was like, were they behind every world war? Yes. Behind September 11th? Absolutely," she said.
Kattan repeated a range of other claims including unfounded accusations that Israel protects paedophiles." Before you say: "she is just one ill informed woman" "Huda Beauty has 57 million followers on Instagram and is one of the world's most popular beauty brands." Of course she now says, she was misinterpreted. People are lying about her. …. After of course, she and TikTok removed the video. 🙄
Subject: Huda Kattan: TikTok removes video by Huda beauty boss over anti-Israel conspiracy theories – BBC News
link
|
| Tortorella | 11 Aug 2025 5:22 a.m. PST |
Well, it's looks like the left has this nut job, while the right has Laura Loomer, a white nationalist (her words) who actually meets with POTUS to talk policy. She recently attacked the Army about MOH winner Florent Groberg, who voted for Clinton. |
| 35thOVI | 11 Aug 2025 6:34 a.m. PST |
Tort, I think you are stretching here. 😉 One reading your comment would think she was being antisemitic, like the woman in my post. But, such is not the case. It had to do with him being anti Trump. I looked this up and all sources were liberal media and not even the big ones. Washington Post and then sources using the information from the Post. Side note: why do these major sources, like the post demand a subscription? Seems a bit odd from those demanding "billionaires need to be taxed more!". 😉 Anyway, I went to the source herself. Subject: Laura Loomer on X: "There are probably so many people who the Army could honor who have received the Medal of Honor. But who did the Army choose to honor instead on their social media page under the Trump admin? @FlorentGroberg Florent Groberg, a Democrat who spoke at the 2016 DNC where he t.co/3cMeF7jp9w / X
link There are probably so many people who the Army could honor who have received the Medal of Honor. But who did the Army choose to honor instead on their social media page under the Trump admin? "@FlorentGroberg
Florent Groberg, a Democrat who spoke at the 2016 DNC where he campaigned against Trump in support of
@HillaryClinton
and was praised by Obama. You'd think that the US Army of all places would actually invest in some proper vetting, but nope. Inadequacy, screw ups, and zero political knowledge of anything in the Trump era is totally accepted my many in this admin. Under the Army Secretary Dan Driscoll
@SecArmy
, there have been several instances of either him, or the Army promoting anti-Trump Leftists on their official social media channels. " So nothing antisemitic. All political. I personally don't care what MOH recipient is honored. They deserve it. Was it political? Probably. Notice I sited the BBC and a biased anti semite living in the US. I know there are anti semites on the right, but right now, they are a real minority compared to the "educated" youth on the left. Do they sell keffiyehs in the Ivy League student stores now? 🤔 Still trying to figure out the whole WW1 and Israel. I know the Nazis and others blamed the Jews for everything… but at least they specifically blamed the Jews… not Israel. 😂 |
| Tortorella | 11 Aug 2025 10:49 a.m. PST |
I think there is a difference between blaming Jews and blaming Israel for the soon to expand war in Gaza. It's hard to label people under these circumstances. We don't known why there have been so many protests for sure, but plenty of Jews do not support Netanyahu's rule. |
| Legion 4 | 11 Aug 2025 12:20 p.m. PST |
I have no problems with terrorists filling up every available body-bag. There's no such thing as a good terrorist- even the dead ones stink. But there's more to this than just 07 OCT. Most with any common sense or humanity agree … So yes to paraphrase IIRC ACW GEN Sheridan, "The old good islamic terrorist is a dead islamic terrorist" … Or any terrorists really, in the US a few "groups" that qualify. IMO Antifa, militant violent BLM, etc., radical ilsamic groups, KKK, etc. But there's more to this than just 07 OCT. It's a 81 Year (or longer) War and nobody has clean hands, with both the Israelis and the terrorists stirring the pot when it suits them. Yes even before the first Arab-Israeli war in '1948. There were problems between Jews and moslems and not just in what was then called "Palestine". Any islamic countries killed or chased non-moslems out. And not just Jews, but Christians, e.g. the Turkish Genocide of Christian Armenians. During WWI. And the world just watched. The atrocities committed by the moslem Turks rivaled 7 0ct. And many Christians are attacked, raped, tortured maim, etc. by islamic terrorists in Africa. Or even Hindu terrorists in India. Pakistan treats Christians there horribly as well … And very little is ever reported in the media. Which is no surprise based on the most media bias. And these Christians are of every color and ethnicity. So its not like I'm excusing anything that happened by the Jews to moslems. Nor am I excusing any war crimes or crimes against humanity, etc. But it seems that history even in as late as the 20th Century demonstrates fundamentalists, fanatical, radical, hard corps islamists' crimes again Jews and Christians far out weights anything Jew have done to islam. And yes we all know the history of the Crusades, European colonies all over Africa, the Mid East, India, Pakistan, etc. Well, there is enough blame to go around, few hands are clean, many gray areas. But in my lifetime, I don't remember too many terrorists attacking the US or even the West being anything other than radical islam … Note I said radical militant islam … Your average follower of islam is not a fanatical, jihadi, terrorist … |
| Dal Gavan | 11 Aug 2025 2:06 p.m. PST |
35th, nobody is denying that anti-Semitism seems to be on the rise. Tort's point, with which I agree, is that criticism of Israel's actions in Gaza and on the West Bank, or criticism of the Israeli government, are often twisted and declared to be anti-Semitism, to try to shut the critics up. There's nothing new in that and all governments try to shut their critics up (or throw them out of windows, in extreme cases). It's ironic that anti-Semitism used to be associated with Nazis and other far right scum, but now has been adopted by recidivist Marxists and socialists. More indication that politics is best modelled as a circle, not a straight line? But in my lifetime, I don't remember too many terrorists attacking the US or even the West being anything other than radical islam … Anarchists; IRA and UDA;, Brigata Rosa; Japanese Red Army; McVeigh; ZANLA and ZIPRA; VC; Khmer Rouge; Gruppe Hoffman and Red Army Faction; SLA and Weathermen; etc ad nauseum. You'd remember most of those, Legion, and there's so many more from Europe, the Americas and Asia, who weren't Islamic (usually Marx, Lenin, Trotsky and Mau were their gods). |
| 35thOVI | 11 Aug 2025 4:15 p.m. PST |
I know I defend Israel consistently on TMP. That has not been the case forever. I still blame them for the USS Liberty. I know they do whatever they view necessary to preserve Israel, whatever that is or takes. But "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". "Prior to October 7, 2023, the Gaza Strip was de facto governed by Hamas, an Islamist militant organization." Who elected Hamas? The Palestinians. Who did nothing to free themselves from the rule? The Palestinians. Who cheered the killings, rapes and torture of Israeli and US civilians on 10/7? Palestinians. Who did Hamas write home to, to tell about burning babies and group rapes and then murder of Israeli and U.S. women and men? To Palestinians. "Palestinian civilians even helped on 10/7. Who was seen cheering after 9/11? Palestinians. Did they feel pity for the atrocities? Do they even now? They had "home rule", but were willing to jeopardize it again, for perceived vengeance on 10/7. They really have no more right to the land than anyone else. Actually the Jews have more historical right. Although they too ousted others in biblical times, only to be ousted themselves by the Romans. But the Muslims butchered their way to control of the area after 600. Just like they did in so many areas after 600. Yes the Christians took some of it back in the Middle Ages, which the Muslims use as justification for what they do. But they did it first and with much more bloodshed and brutality. So I feel little pity for the Palestinians. You reap what you have sown for centuries. |
| Legion 4 | 11 Aug 2025 7:39 p.m. PST |
You'd remember most of those, Legion, and there's so many more from Europe, the Americas and Asia, who weren't Islamic (usually Marx, Lenin, Trotsky and Mau were their gods). Yes you are correct, not all terrorists are islamists, as I mentioned in my previous post. I.e. Antifa, militant BLM, KKK, etc. However, I failed to mention the other terrorists you posted. That were not islamists … But for now militant islam is first to come to mind … With Hamas/Gaza, Hezbollah, Iran, etc. being most recent. And BTW, the POTUS has designated some cartels in Mexico, and further South as terrorists. Mexico does not want any US troops on its soil. But IMO the best way to handle the cartels, gangs etc. from those areas. Is Drones or TLAMs maybe airstrikes. No boots on the ground. With US intel assets from orbital on down. Most of the Narco-terrorists/gangs etc. locations are known. However, those air attacks would be considered an act of war if those targets were in Mexico, Central and South America. Plus would be considered an act of war. And yes, there would be some CD no matter how hard it is to try to mitigate it. OVI +1 |
| Dal Gavan | 12 Aug 2025 4:28 a.m. PST |
35th, I'm not condemning your support of Israel. I do believe that Israel's government is responsible, and deliberately so, for a lot of the unrest in that area. Some (most?) of their supporters and their government would condemn me as anti-Semitic because I believe that. It's sometimes referred to as "Silencing critics by slander.", and is a favourite tactic of Israel and, ironically, the Far Left as well. I agree, Legion, the fundie jihadists have grabbed the terrorist spotlight, at least for now. No argument from me, mate. Personally, I can't see much wrong with introducing drug cartel members to contact-fused 500lb+ bombs, but the whole "act of war" issue makes the plan unviable.  At least the US would attempt to minimise CD. Cheers, Gents. PS I won't discuss the "Historical Rights" concept. What a ginormous can of worms that would open….. |
| Tortorella | 12 Aug 2025 4:49 a.m. PST |
And, although I hate to say it, the US demand for illegal drugs for recreational use is not going away. Somebody will fill any market void if supplies are interrupted. |
| 35thOVI | 12 Aug 2025 5:04 a.m. PST |
Dal, as I said, I'm not blind to Isreali government policies, but I doubt believe there can be peace between the two parties. Radical Islam and indoctrination runs too deep. Take care Tort, agree. Those using drugs are equally as guilty, if not more so. I believe we ignore them and they are not held accountable. Maybe a year of indentured servitude for them. 🤔 Maybe building the border wall for free. Mexico would be paying for it! 🙂 |
| Dal Gavan | 12 Aug 2025 5:51 a.m. PST |
Same here, Tort. I don't have any idea of how or whether it will change, either. Legalise the drugs, make them only available from pharmacists on a doctor's prescription, and charge half the street rate to remove the cartels' customer bases? Or would that make things worse? but I doubt believe there can be peace between the two parties. Too true, mate. It's not just the fundies of Islam, either. There's some fundie Hebrews and Christians (and possibly even atheists, too), driving their own agenda. Plus external parties (Iran, for one) who like meddling where they shouldn't. For example, our idiot government has stated that a separate Palestinian state will bring peace. There's lots of pro's and con's for that move, but what it won't do is bring peace, at least in the short or medium terms. I don't know if anything will. Those using drugs are equally as guilty, if not more so. I believe we ignore them and they are not held accountable. +1 It's the same here- they're victims, not crim's. |
| 35thOVI | 12 Aug 2025 6:48 a.m. PST |
Yes Dal that's how they view our drug users too. They are not victims, they made that choice. They have legalized Marijuana in many states (fyi not the Marijuana of my collage days, very potent now). They said the states would make revenue and it would put drug dealers out of business. Well what they are finding is many are still buying the "cheaper" Marijuana off the streets. Listening to that story just 3 days ago. |
| Tortorella | 13 Aug 2025 6:02 a.m. PST |
This is true 35th. It's more expensive to buy from a dispenser but it's also regulated from seed to final product, and a lot safer and easier to select and use. Or grow up to 6 plants at home. Overall the choice for millions of casual users who dislike the iffy side street deals, and mostly an improvement, IMO. Regulated, driving impairment enforced like booze. Meth is now making a comeback, with the cartels taking over from the local American labs. Every vacuum finds a new drug, new supplier. Dal, I don't know the answer. I do know that crime goes in cycles, and drug use shifts to new products routinely. The crack epidemic in the 80s was brutal. But the crime/drug wars are part of life, it never ends, there is no winning, get tough or go lax, nothing changes. |
| 35thOVI | 13 Aug 2025 8:08 a.m. PST |
"Muslim Brotherhood terror designation ‘in the works,' Rubio says
"As long as Hamas exists, there will be no peace in Gaza," the U.S. secretary of state told the radio host Sid Rosenberg." 👍 |
| Legion 4 | 13 Aug 2025 12:16 p.m. PST |
I agree, Legion, the fundie jihadists have grabbed the terrorist spotlight, at least for now. No argument from me, mate. Personally, I can't see much wrong with introducing drug cartel members to contact-fused 500lb+ bombs, but the whole "act of war" issue makes the plan unviable. frown At least the US would attempt to minimise CD. Yes with all the islamic terrorist attacks on US assets even before 9/11. The islamists were kill Americans. But also many others. We didn't have any attacks from the IRA, and many of the others on the list you mentioned previously. But yes, the US could do a lot of damage to the cartels and gangs. But Mexico dose not want any "Gringos" on their territory. If their many in their gov't was not on the take, etc. They don't want to lose the extra $. USD But again drones and TLAMs would make a real mess of the cartels, etc. For example, our idiot government has stated that a separate Palestinian state will bring peace UK, France and Canada thinks so to. They had a two state solution … Gaza and Israel. But that was not what Hamas etc. wanted … they want all of their lands formerly known as Palestine. The IDF left Gaza in IIRC 2006. And Hamas, etc. just kept shooting rockets, mortars, etc. It comes down to e.g. all the Europeans that came to the new world. And took/occupied American Indian/indigenous peoples lands. We can't all say we will all go back to Europe, or China, etc. And return the US to the indigenous peoples. The Jews that went to Palestine after WWII and the holocaust are never going to all go back to Europe either. And I think some protesters/rioters do get it. Jews were in that area and in a number of other places in the Mid East for thousands of years. Plus Jews and Christians were in existence at least 600 years or so before islam. So in both cases the USA and Israel … we ani't going No where …
The IDF has no other choice but finish the job Hamas started. And that means many more will die. Withdrawing totally from Gaza will only result in sooner or later Hamas attacking all over again. They keep threatening to do more 7 Octs … We can't let that happen …
|
| 35thOVI | 13 Aug 2025 1:13 p.m. PST |
I will only add: if Israel's goal was Genocide in Gaza, they could have achieved it easily in days. |
| 35thOVI | 13 Aug 2025 5:09 p.m. PST |
"Israeli Foreign Minister Gideon Sa'ar delivered a blunt rejection of international two-state solution pressure Wednesday, telling a delegation of American journalists that "a Palestinian state in the heart of Israel would indeed be a solution—for those who seek to eliminate us" and suggesting Western nations advocating for Palestinian statehood should "establish it on their own territory" instead." 👍 |
| Legion 4 | 13 Aug 2025 7:50 p.m. PST |
Yes what most people who don't know about war, history, weapons systems, the military, etc. If they wanted to wipeout the Gazans, etc. The IDF could do it, just with FA, airstrikes, gunships, missiles and drones. Gaza is not that big … |
| Dal Gavan | 14 Aug 2025 3:40 a.m. PST |
I will only add: if Israel's goal was Genocide in Gaza, they could have achieved it easily in days. But openly wiping out the Palestinians would not permit Bibi to deny that is what Israel is doing. It may even cause Israel's few remaining supporters to withdraw their support. The current situation leaves enough doubt so that Israel can- truthfully or not- deny they are attempting genocide. Most peoples' opinions on what Israel is doing are based on their prejudices, not proof, and a concerted campaign to wipe out Gaza would give them proof. As for the drug problem, I don't think anyone will come up with a answer. |
| Legion 4 | 14 Aug 2025 10:23 p.m. PST |
The Hamas 7 Oct massacre is why the IDF had to attack. That and the constant barrage of rockets coming from Gaza, etc.. The Israelis left Gaza in 2006, IIRC. But the Palestinians/Hamas, etc. still wanted to kill Jews and the Druze that live in Isreal. Now the IDF has no choice but to clear out Hamas and reoccupy. To prevent any future attack and atrocities. When the IDF took Gaza in '67. They wanted to withdraw at the end of the war. As it was part of Egypt. Egypt did not want it back. There is a huge wall between Gaza and Egypt … But the Egyptians don't want to have to deal with the islamists in Gaza, either. |
| Dagwood | 15 Aug 2025 2:50 a.m. PST |
Legion, So why are the Israelis currently seeking to occupy the West Bank, driving Muslims and Christians from their villages with illegal Jewish settlements ? Hamas not involved there ? |
| Dal Gavan | 15 Aug 2025 3:34 a.m. PST |
I know why they had to attack, Legion, and why they're still hunting out Hamas rats. However their treatment of the Gazan civvies is ambiguous enough to make a lot of people, including me, wonder what the final goal is. Add that to their plans for the illegally occupied West Bank (as Dagwood points out) and and I'm not surprised that more nations see Bibi wearing a black hat. Whether it's deserved or not I don't know- too early to tell. It may still be too early to tell in 2125. As for the nations recognising a Palestinian state, I think that's got more to do with politicians trying to show they're statesmen more than any real belief it will solve the problem. |
| SBminisguy | 15 Aug 2025 8:12 a.m. PST |
However their treatment of the Gazan civvies is ambiguous enough to make a lot of people, including me, wonder what the final goal is. Total defeat of Hamas -- kinda like what was the point of assaulting Berlin to dig Hitler out of his bunker, yes? Hamas dictates when this war ends short of total defeat, and they have a deliberate policy of causing civilian casualties and suffering as a propaganda and political weapon. And it works too, more's the pity, given the number of people who sob about the Gazans as if Hamas isn't the one hijacking aid shipments, killing anyone who cooperates to distribute aid without their control, KILLING people standing line and blaming Israel and the US, and digging into their tunnels while their leadership enjoy first class hotels in other countries. |
| 35thOVI | 15 Aug 2025 8:35 a.m. PST |
SB +1 "The extent of Hamas's domestic popularity among Palestinians is uncertain. According to Congress.gov, Hamas was the preferred faction of at least 20% of Palestinians (in the West Bank and Gaza, or WBG) according to pre-October 7, 2023 polling. However, a poll in May 2025 indicated that satisfaction with Hamas' performance dropped to 57% (67% in the West Bank and 43% in the Gaza Strip). "
…. "(March 4, 2025 / JNS)
How many times have you heard well-meaning progressives say that Hamas doesn't represent the Palestinian people? Indeed, less than two weeks after the Hamas-led terrorist attacks in southern Israel on Oct. 7, 2023—the worst mass slaughter of Jews since the Holocaust—then-President Joe Biden said, "The vast majority of Palestinians are not Hamas. Hamas does not represent the Palestinian people." The truth is that the majority of Palestinians in the Gaza Strip, as well as Judea and Samaria (the West Bank), supported the Oct. 7 massacre, and more than 1 million (48%) still support "armed struggle" to end the "occupation." Palestinians have a long history of supporting Hamas. Back in 2006, Hamas won the Palestinian legislative election. It was the last time the Palestinians held elections. Little has changed. " … "Research through 2024 shows the overwhelming majority of Palestinians supported Hamas's attack on and kidnapping of mostly Jewish civilians, though astoundingly, 89% deny Hamas's atrocities. Thousands of Palestinian "civilians" eagerly took part in the massacre, and 17 months later, many more thousands turned out to mock Israeli hostages during their release. Ordinary Palestinians also happily assisted Hamas by hiding Israeli hostages and the terrorist group's tunnels and hideouts. No wonder that Liri Albag, an Israeli who was held hostage in a private home in the Strip and recently released, said ruefully that Gaza consists of "2 million terrorists."" I've heard other released hostages express the same opinion. They received nothing but contempt from the Palestinian civilians. The MSM are willing to place false news out there, like the NYT showing a young Palestinian boy supposedly starving. Turned out he had a medical condition and his well fed mother and brother were NOT shown. NYT recanted, but not on the front page. 🙄. They were not the only media to do this. |
| Dal Gavan | 15 Aug 2025 3:07 p.m. PST |
35th and SB, "Whether it's deserved or not I don't know- too early to tell. It may still be too early to tell in 2125." Not all reports come via the gossip-mongers, Bibi's enemies and anti-Semiticists. Aussies have been part of MFO Sinai and other MEAO operations for decades, and right wing media is neither always accurate nor unbiased. I've worked with people from IAI, Tadiran and Elbit, and know Israelis' fears of their Arab neighbours aren't an act. I also know they are quite ruthless, and their definition of "ally" is significantly different to ours, especially when it comes to industrial espionage. I note you both ignored the West Bank issues? |
| 35thOVI | 15 Aug 2025 4:06 p.m. PST |
The West Bank was mentioned in my quotes. 🙂 "The truth is that the majority of Palestinians in the Gaza Strip, as well as Judea and Samaria (the West Bank), supported the Oct. 7 massacre, and more than 1 million (48%) still support "armed struggle" to end the "occupation." The first paragraph of mine are from Oracles AI and then JNN. |
| Dal Gavan | 15 Aug 2025 4:53 p.m. PST |
The West Bank was mentioned in my quotes. True, mate- but only with respect their support for Hamas(and presumably Hezbeollah, PLA, ISIS, etc), not about the settlements. I sometimes wonder who does those polls- and whether there's a flash suppressor an inch from the tip of the person's nose when they are asked? Stacking polls, intimidating voters and misrepresenting statistics are long-perfected techniques. |
| Dagwood | 16 Aug 2025 10:42 a.m. PST |
One thing I came across in Jordan not very long after the 7 Oct massacre is the belief that it never happened and was an Israeli fix-up. Some Hamas supporters would doubtless say the same thing. They support Hamas because it is completely innocent of any wrongdoing. Not my opinion. |
| Legion 4 | 16 Aug 2025 6:32 p.m. PST |
So why are the Israelis currently seeking to occupy the West Bank, driving Muslims and Christians from their villages with illegal Jewish settlements ? The moslems in the W. Bank were attacking Israels. That had to be stopped. They are part of the Palestinian Authority. They support Hamas and other islamic terrorists vs. Israel. And there are Hamas not involved there ? Hamas is also affiliated with other islamic terrorists, e.g. Al Axa, islamic Jihad, etc. I have never heard of the IDF attacking Christians. That sounds like Hamas/islamist propaganda/lies. Israel supports Christians, the USA is a Christan nation. Why would Isreal do anything to harm Christians ? |
| Dagwood | 17 Aug 2025 1:21 a.m. PST |
It's not the IDF attacking Christians, it's the extremist Jewish settlers. |
| Dal Gavan | 17 Aug 2025 6:20 p.m. PST |
"It's not the IDF attacking Christians, it's the extremist Jewish settlers." Can you hear the crickets, Dag's? |
| Legion 4 | 18 Aug 2025 6:56 p.m. PST |
Again, I never heard of Jews attacking Christians … Plus Israel is 80% Jewish, the rest are Christian, molsems, Druze, etc. Christians and Druze are not a threat … As are many moslems in Israel live in peace with the Jews and everyone else there. |
| Dal Gavan | 19 Aug 2025 4:13 a.m. PST |
"I have never heard of the IDF attacking Christians." USS Liberty. IDF firing at a guard tower at the UNIFIL HQ October 2024 (it was on the news here). 1987- Irish Army NCO was killed by Israeli tank fire on his UN postion. 2006 four UN observers, one each from Canada, Finland, Austria, and China, were killed in an Israeli airstrike. "Again, I never heard of Jews attacking Christians" From the Jerusalem Post: link There's a lot more Israeli "accidents", "incidents" and "mistakes" if you want to look for them- and they aren't all, if any, Muslim propaganda. Even your president Biden asked Israel to stop firing at UN personnel in 2024 ( link ). The SLA, Hezbollah, PLO and other scum have done far more damage, but Israeli settlers and IDF aren't innocent. UNIFIL alone has had 326 personnel killed by various groups, including the IDF, since its mission in Lebanon began in 1978. Do I want Israel to eradicate the terr's and be able to live in peace in the future? My oath I do. But I also realise that Israel isn't the blameless victims they try to appear to be. There's no "white hats" in the Arab-Israeli mess, Legion, just varying shades of grey, a few black and some unfortunate sky-blue berets. |
| 35thOVI | 19 Aug 2025 5:40 a.m. PST |
Dal, yes they have killed Christians, I mentioned the bombing of our ship and
I've said I've always believed it was intentional. But they don't make a habit of killing Christians or use their religion to justify doing it… their opponents do. No, the Jews of Israel are not blameless, never have been throughout history. BUT….. As I said earlier: "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" Isreal never crashed commercial planes into our towers, killed my civilians, propagated terrorists attacks in my country, vandalized areas of my cities with their "peaceful protests", etc. etc. I won't go into 10/7 which started the latest cycle. As I said, I'm not blind to things the Jews of Israel do… I just view the other side as much, much more of a threat to our country, way of life, culture and also yours and others. Take care |
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