"3Dprinted resin figures are sturdy enough" Topic

You were asked – TMP link

At the current state of technology, are 3Dprinted 28/32mm resin figures sturdy enough for the wear and tear of the miniature tabletop?

46% said "yes, they are study enough for tabletop gaming"
20% said "no, they are not sturdy enough for tabletop gaming"

This all depends upon the figure design, and what type of resin you use. If you have extremely thin fiddly bits on them, they will snap if knocked hard enough.

If you use cheap resin, it will snap. If you used water washable (which is bad, m'okay?) it will snap. IF you use a decent resin and add in 20% tenacious it will hold up pretty well.

Kids Today, they're brainwashed by technology!
Harrumph!
The Poll is wrong!
(Meaning, I voted differently. 🤷)

I think the issue is, going by the number of people who will resort to nastyness to aggressively defend 3d printing who, unfortunately, frequent the site, it's likely more people voted who are ok with any limitations in the technology.

I find mantic injected plastics break crazily easy.

A main problem with 3d printed resin is the thin bits, which can break more easily.

That's why limitations of other materials, such as metal can be a major selling point. As you can't have as thin parts.

Or injected plastic which can't have undercuts, so things are easier to get to to paint.

Also John is correct.

Kids are easily manipulated. But that's not new.

The problem is more when they grow up, but still don't realise that.

I feel that's where the vote came from.

The H Man – For once your clear errors make me feel young again.

Kids are easily manipulated. But that's not new.

At a young 70 it's great to be called a Kid for my forward looking thinking and remainds me I could have fallen into being old, inflexible and set in my ways and WAY BEHIND THE TIMES.

In fact all the errors are your own, as usual.

I wasn't calling you a kid.

Read again.

But, yes, speak of the Devil.

PS

In fact it's interesting that I am singled out, when it was John's post that mentions "kids today".

I'm sure anyone reading will also wonder, why?

Not that there is anything wrong with his post, in my opinion.

There is a bit of jocularity in my post above.
I've purchased 3D printed ships and canoes. The striations were actually a nice feature.
On tanks, they were hideous.
BUT, they were certainly sturdy.

I've also ordered people and horses.
With the cowgirls and sheriffs, let me just say that the renders in the ads were a bit more robust. The "castings" came out very much slimmer, and with arms and weapons that easily broke.
The horses were printed without bases, as were the people. I actually thought it was a no-brainer to give them bases, but apparently not. No bases, and with "anatomically correct" slim and delicate hoofs does not give me confidence.
Those purchases were 2 years ago.
Suffice it to say that I have no confidence in 3D printed figures. Too delicate. Models? Judgement call.

"They say" that newer resins give sturdier results. That's nice, but I'm through with these science projects. I'm a strict metal head.

Whatever.

Surely, it depends on whether you're talking about tanks or elvish wizards with whispy little ribbons everywhere, right? Resin printed ironclads are not likely to give you too much trouble, but a bunch of archers might.

I will tell you that off in 3D printer land some people just grab cheap resin and start printing with the default settings, while other people experiment with resins, exposure times, curing times, etc to get the toughest figures. Some people here have even talked about how they mix flexible and regid resins to get ideal results. Surely this is a factor.

And we all know there are tougher resins, flexible resins, etc, right? It's not all one thing?

Personally, I think the most fragile part of a miniature is the paint job, and when I store and handle the mini to protect the paint job that's usually more than enough care to prevent breaking of any kind of miniature. But mine don't get nearly enough use…

But I don't think it's a simple yes/no question.

3D printing is being used in every hobby dealing with models. Yesterday, I visited an HO scale model railroad club. One fellow in his late middle age is their 3D wizard. Blew me away. Structures that would have taken me months to photograph, convert to scale drawings, and then build from scratch take him a few evenings. Dang. He also prints all their HO scale people. Once painted, they glue them to the train layout never to be touched again.

3D printing is a hobby unto itself. Andrew is right. It's a complex answer for miniature gaming.

I have said that often, I felt resin figures were sturdy enough at 28mm. Then I broke two in the last three days while painting!!
The bits that broke where very fine though, and I am very clumsy. Hopefully I can fix them with a metal weapon replacement.

who, unfortunately, frequent the site

Not a nice attitude. I've always understood TMP to be broad church – all and everyone welcome.

--

3D printing is still a new technology. Like all technologies it'll experience hiccups as people mis-apply it to the wrong applications.

For detailed models that'll sit on a shelf to be admired then 3D printing may be the bees knees.

For miniatures that'll be used for wargaming – then perhaps correct design and selection of material is more apt.

White metal is still the best – but manufacturers don't finish ranges quickly enough (if at all); this leaves a nice niche for the 3D to fill.

+1 John.

I just painted some 3d printed tanks. Had to replace most of the guns, as they were literally tree trunks, the guns could be used as concrete road blocks.

I'd assume proper guns would break, but these were just stupid. Metal accessories please.

"Not a nice attitude. I've always understood TMP to be broad church – all and everyone welcome."

My attitude is fine. Why should I enjoy being victimised?

And it's those people who are making me feel very unwelcome indeed. I have almost quit on several occasions. Deleated many a strong word.

There are many good people here, but a few bad apples too.

It can be very difficult.

Not my cup of tea.

+1 jgawne

The answer is a well-designed figure printed with bendable/tough resin works fine.

I have not purchased a metal figure since I bought my first resin printer 4 years ago. The technology is improving all the time.

There is also the difference between Filament printers which give you those striations that H man and others talked about, and Resin printers for figures. Those printers are good for terrain.

Yes despite what one poster here may desire the ship has sailed. Everything will continue to improve.

3d printing is here to stay despite some poster who like to yell "off my yard" LOL :)

Not "get off my lawn".
More like I refuse to buy crap that has failed me every time I've bought figures. So, "Get out of my wallet!"

Dare I say it, but the proliferation of 3D printed figures is like the proliferation of AI generated "country music".
I didn't mention the rowboats being rowed by figures facing the wrong way. Every single one of them scowling like they're about to scalp an Injun. That is why Beyoncé gets to claim that she is doing country music. She has a song "All the Single Ladies" with 10 credited songwriters.
Nothing today is edited. Influencers rule the internet.
Harrumph. I say HARRUMPH!

The answer is a well-designed figure…

My laugh for the day.
Thanks. I needed that.

"There is also the difference between Filament printers which give you those striations that H man and others talked about,"

Just to clarify, the tanks literally had something like 1cmx2cm solid lumps for guns. It wasn't just some supports. If I'm reading the above correctly.

"Yes despite what one poster here may desire"

"despite some poster "

And another two join the party.

Can't even mention who they are taking about, it would appear. Likely because they know they are doing something wrong and don't want to be caught out.

"who like to yell "off my yard" "

Odd, when it's the likes of these two who are usually trying to harrass and intimidate me away.

Not blooming likely.

Hold Fast, John.

Give me a sturdy 1775 British fusilier wearing a bearskin cap.
Or a 1770 British lout firing into the mob at the Boston massacre.
Send me 24, including officers, standard bearers and musick.
Do the best you can, and send them to me FREE.
Then I'll give them an honest approval. Did I say FREE?

But they better have bases, and they better not have shrieking faces.

All this talk about filament vs resin bath reminds me of old time home cast with lead tire weights. They always got lead rot.

What's annoying to me about 3D printed figures is that often the "manufacturer" has no control over the design.
A while back, when the ridiculous backwards rowers were advertised here on TMP, the errors were immediately pointed out.
The manufacturer, rather defensively, shot back that he paid to license the design, but then said that he had no control or input into the design. While admitting that they were wrong.
That's what I call passing the buck.

I think 3d printing has issues.

It can't be the best with all the flaws of varying types and reasons.

I've never heard so many about metal or plastic. Rot aside, they are overall very stable.

Though I think 3d printing has also adopted many of the flaws of resin, which is many more than filament alone.

Plastic and metal are, usually, still your best bet to be issue free.

It's like Bitcoin, beanie babies, or whatever the latest gimmick is. Get in early, but not first, and then get the heck out of there ASAP, before people realise what's going on.

I feel print farmers and bigger businesses will come to realise, as they start selling larger quantities, that injection and other methods end up being cheaper and easier.

That's mass production, prototyping is, unfortunately the other way around, pushing aside sculptors infaver of computer programmers drooling Infront of screens.

Fact is it's still in a major state of flux, and I doubt it will ever not be, unless it disappears from the mainstream completely.

A sprue, is a sprue, is a sprue, mostly (grr, mantic).

A cast, is a cast, is a cast.

3d prints is Russian roulette.

Let's make those 80% of the time, to be fair.

Personally, I like 3d printing and yes, it can be a crap shoot. Frankly, the sheer variety of 3d sculpts – particularly in historical gaming – is astounding. Personally, I believe 3d printing is better for larger scales (such as 28mm), especially with multi-part prints. I've used 3d prints for my 15mm Trojan War-esque project and GNW, and while the miniatures can be brittle, as long as you're careful, you can acquire some incredible miniatures.

Frankly, I must respectfully disagree with The H Man – 3d printing is here to stay. Furthermore, with the advancements in AI, 3d printing will become more and more prevalent in miniature gaming. I don't think it's a passing fad. Indeed, mass production of 3d printing has already begun and will become more popular as the technology advances.

Regarding cost – I just ordered 150 3d printed GNW Swedes for around $.50 USD a miniature. Admittedly, most of them are casualties (both cavalry and infantry) and mtd. officers but I believe that the cost is a bit cheaper than metals (at least in 15mm – Dixon's GNW minis are averaging .45 GBP (pence) per miniature. Again, as the technology advances (some 3d filaments can be bent, for instance. Printers are becoming cheaper and you can own the files once purchased – hence, you can print as many miniatures as you want ad infinitum), I believe 3d printing will usher in a new renaissance in miniature gaming.

I'd see that film.

Back to reality..,

3d printing, with all its complexity can never equal the cheap simplicity of injection molding for mass production.

Any attempt would result in massive waste issues, as printers would need to be tossed and replaced due to a variety of factors (stuck items on plates, mechanical failure, so on) just to keep up.

I know data centres operate like this, so I guess it's possible, and is only one flaw, but a big one.

It would be good to see a video of an injection moulding machine Vs a 3d printer/s.

You'd get better consistency of product out of a tuned moulder.

Looking at action figures, and minis I guess, there often seems major over supply. Likely due to it being same price or cheaper to over produce injection moulded parts.

I'd assume printing wouldn't have such a thing past around 100 parts, as the machines actually probably suffer more the more they are used, as opposed to injection moulders working with tonnes of pressure that can pretty well run themselves once going. Like one guy for several machines. Or just an Atlas, what not, now.

Also I'd expect 3d printers would need a lot more room. But they may prove comparable.

If a printer takes 1 hour (sounds very quick) to print a plate worth. Injection about 1 minute (sounds slow).

So you'd need 60 3d printers to match one moulder, even at those silly numbers. Assuming a plate is about the same as a sprue.

Then there's the time in removing the products and adding resin or filament. Even if getting a droid to do it will still hold up the works.

I suspect moulders can have hoppers topped up while active??? Parts can just drop out, depending on set up.

So printers will have down time, moulders some moulders won't, or not as much.

A more important gripe for me is the use of CG figures across the board.

They come out looking like lifeless zombies compared to hand sculpted and pantographed castings.

You can see it most obvious among action figures, with modern ones looking like blank CG offerings, and 90s figures looking full of life in comparison.

Some are still doing it old school, Perry's last I checked.

But with companies like Disney, Hasbro, GW and others only interested in one thing, I doubt they will change methods fast. Which sucks for both of us, I'm sure.

3d printing is amazing and won't go anywhere, despite some of the old guard and their staunchly narrow minded views, 3d printing will eventually replace metals. Metals are a dying breed.

It's the growth of the hobby, bringing in more ignorant people, that's the problem as far as minis.

People with no background in the a field will rarely know much about its history or what it's really about.

Add that people usually come from an angle into the field.

Such as people who watched Lord of the rings in the cinema then went into GW for the first time, in mass, as one example.

3d printing is, itself, bringing people in in such a manner.

Most 3d printers can't produce very large items, so minis are a prime target. Hense they are everywhere. And people seeing them may lurk across to wargaming, never knowing anything about metal figures to begin with.

A mass dumbing down.

It's been going on for decades with GW bringing people in.

Luckily, usually, these people eventually get distracted by the latest breadmaker or what not and go away. Mostly.

More likely is that people coming to wargaming from 3d printing, computer games, so on, will see metal miniatures as something new and different, not just overpriced bits of cheap plastic or 3d printed chum.

Believe it or not, especially with the ladies, most people value metal over plastic. Hense fort Nox.

Worse still are the old guard who fail utterly to unable to accept we and revolutionary products. Like those who moaned wahen steam card were replaced bny internal combustion engines. Whait did any of those survive till present day?

Yes there will be a few duff 3D figure but compwred to the leigion of duff metal figures I have had, brittle, malforemed, failure to fit other metal parts they are supposed to fit, like horses, and don't get me started on the oversized, crude "Circus Freak" figures with arms the size of tree trunks, That before get the the irrational poses brought about by casting limitations. Compare to that 3D printed figure are so far aheaqd there is no competition. Metal is mainly for Ludidtes.

"Metal is mainly for Ludidtes."

I guess spelling is too.

'Hense fort Nox'

Yep, spelling is for the Luddites, too, it seems. This discussion is all over the place: so many assumptions, so many generalizations.

For full disclosure: I came back into the hobby after a 40 year hiatus. Started out with plastic Airfix, went on to metal, great fun. My armies were all stolen, I got a job, wife, kids, etc., etc. I retired, and when I looked around was amazed by all that is currently on offer. Metal, plastic, and yes, 3D printed. I don't think I would buy commercially-produced 3D printed figures today unless I knew from experience that they used excellent resin, so when I rfer to 3D-printed figures below, I mean the ones anyone with their own printer could print.

I like to have control over the means of production, where possible. I have a resin printer, an FDM printer, a spincasting machine/mold maker, a laser cutter, and a sizable collection of drop-casting molds (most PA). And I have in a very short time purchased a significant mountain of figures in metal and plastic, my 'pile of potential', I like to call it, as opposed to 'shame'.

Lately I've been putting the resin printer through its paces because I will be moving soon and will have to pack that up for a number of months (time to start painting!).

So I feel I can confidently debunk a couple of misconceptions expressed in this thread: 1) water-washable resin is not bad, in fact it's great, if you go for quality: Wargamer by Fauxhammer is brilliant. Tough, flexible, nearly odorless and no need to use IPA for clean up. It's not the cheapest out there, which may be why commercial 3D printers aren't using it, but if you print your own I stand by it. I've printed WWII Finns, Winter Volksgrenadiers, Fallschirmjäger, and Winter War Russians with it (fantastic sculpts by Propylene Foliescu, check out MMF and RKX online for details). I've printed a fairly large army (for TtS) of early 14th-century Flemish guild units, including pikemen and wielders of the fearsome goedendag (have fun finding anyone producing a full range of figures for that niche in metal or plastic; digital stls? No problem). I even printed the pikes, and they bend like bendy things. Which leads of course to 2) All resin printed figures are brittle. But the only way to get figures printed with this resin to break is through malicious intention. I've also gone the 80% standard resin, 20% Tenacious mix, and that works great, too. I will do so again, no doubt. I've printed a SP force of Black Brunswickers using stls I got from a kickstarter from the Spanish designer David Vasquez. The results are Perry-like, and have slim rifles and bayonets (as opposed to the telephone poles metals often have--don't get me wrong, I find them charming, too). These do not break when dropped, and will only do so--like metal--when handled too roughly. I've upscaled stls I got from another kickstarter, this time Studio Historia's ACW range, which are superb, to 54mm and the results are fantastic. I have a couple of 54mm projects underway that will use a combination of plastic, 3D printed, and metal figures: Boxer Rebellion, ACW, AWI and Anglo-Zulu Wars. In most cases I'll be able to afford to do this because of 3D printing. But I'm not arguing that this is the ONLY way to go. I do think it's here to stay, especially on the local, individual level, for those inclined to give it a try. I'm not really interested in whether it will be the big thing on the larger, commercial level. As I mentioned above, I also do some self-casting. The Prince August mold collection is giving me 40mm SYW and GNW forces, and it's great fun to do, as well. Being able to make molds myself also means I can cast copies of conversions I make for figures not otherwise available. And it is true that making a casting is quick in the process and instant gratification in the results. Wonderful.

The rich range of resources we enjoy today in this hobby is mind-blowing. So much on offer. If you have a preference for metal over plastic, plastic over 3D-printed, or 3D-printed over everything else and want to make that choice, fine. Personally I like them all and have them all in my collection and will continue to do so, especially now that I have the 3D printing nicely dialed in.

But my plea here is for us all to avoid perpetuating myths and misconceptions, to remember that the hobby is (or should be) a big tent, with room underneath for everyone. Most importantly, in the inimitable words of Ted Lasso, we should strive to be "curious, not judgmental."

'Hense fort Nox'

Yep, spelling is for the Luddites, too, it seems.

A That doesn't make sense, as he's called me a Luddite.

B Picking one of few mistakes, over a post full of them, is not helping your cause.

I reread and edit my posts, perhaps target those who don't.

I'll point out the missing quotations myself, thanks very much.