"Do Warhammer Fantasy and 40K figures become “obsolete”?" Topic

Meaning, are they ineligible to be used in "officially sanctioned" 40k, Sigmar, WFB etc tournament games, or in pickup games in GW stores?
Figures and models from competitive manufacturers can of course be "banned" from such.

There is of course the "whatever consenting adults do in the privacy of their own homes" disclaimer.

There is a nitwit out there, who I have Stifled, who has called me a liar on this topic, but like I've said, he's Stifled.

Meaning, are they ineligible to be used in "officially sanctioned" 40k, Sigmar, WFB etc tournament games, or in pickup games in GW stores?
Figures and models from competitive manufacturers can of course be "banned" from such.

There is of course the "whatever consenting adults do in the privacy of their own homes" disclaimer.

There is a nitwit out there, who I have Stifled, who has called me a liar on this topic, but like I've said, he's Stifled.

If you are talking for tournament use, yes they have. When whenever they do a new codex or army book there is a chance that models can be moved to Legacy/Legends when their rules are dropped from the newest book.

The last big drop was I saw was for GW's Middle Earth Strategy Battle Game. There was over a hundred models moved to Legends status. GW did provide a pdf of model profiles, but they cannot be used in GW official competitive games.

Since I don't play competitively this doesn't bother me except that they also stopped producing the models. That I do find annoying since I have been playing/collecting for 25 years.

A nitwit, indeed.

I'm not a GW player but I know it's part of their sales model to "retire" figures. If they don't appear on the army lists, you can't use them in tournaments – but obviously can, between consenting adults in social games.

I have, at times, voluntarily "retired" historical figures because they were, well, old & ugly & there were better, newer replacements available so I can't get on a High Horse & criticise GW & fans for doing the same.

Be careful when you check out armies for sale at a flea market.
I have seen more than one army dumped at a show when a new tournament list of armies is revealed.

My Swamp Horde army has three units of skink archers because I could buy them for $1.00 USD for a bag of 15 or 20. I was told that this was because skink archers were no longer part of the reptilian? army. On the bright side, I was not constrained as to paint scheme, so, well there are three species of skinks in Colorado (where I live), and I painted one unit like each species. One thing I don't understand is that in the years that passed between buying the skinks at auction, finally getting them painted, then wondering what I should do with the excess skink archers, they seem to have become valuable again, because I had no problem selling them at auction.
I still wonder if there are really British or European skinks in the GW shade of blue.

Grelber

I'm reminded of a cartoon. A newer space marine is pointing at a downtrodden beakie and saying " You can't play anymore…you're too old ! " <lol>

My fantasy armies are mainly figures from the earliest days, I don't do competition skirmishes, but large battles using a different rule system,

Tally Ho!

There's also "peer pressure" obscolescence – some of the GW figures from 25+ years ago look pretty cartoony compared to the modern versions.

Units can move to "Legends" which are not generally permitted in matched play. They receive no rules or balance updates

The figures could be proxies but that would be hard. You might be able to claim your scouts on bikes are outriders but you'd be holding your manhood cheap the whole event.

Don't play GW and I've never had a figure go "legendary".

BTW my orcs remain evil creatures with no hope of redemption.

I've never heard the term "legends" before, as it applies to miniatures.
The Hinchliffe AWI figures I painted back in the 80s are still going strong. 🤷

Way back, I had heard that …"legacy" figures from earlier editions were perfectly fine. Back when craftsmen made land speeders from deodorant suppliers for use in Rogue Trader.
Bank when Kev Adams made Orcs and Goblins for just about every manufacturer. Darn nice ones they were, too. I had dozens from Heartbreaker. Flea market, so doubly deficient. 😄

Back on point, it seems that early WFB or 40K figures are now considered heretical, or schismatic. Ironically, it's similar to early Christian beliefs, that were not quite set in stone. I used to take delight in "studying heresies". You could have been beaten, or worse, for getting your Creeds mixed up.
So, the GW obsession with religious orthodoxy, and Bad Latin, has historical precedent. 😄
I had Orcs, Goblins, Renaissance Poles… excuse me, Kislevites and HYW English. Errr… Bretonnia.
Do any of those still exist?
I abandoned GW gaming when I saw how gleefully they embraced Fascist ideology regarding The Empire.

Geez, this makes me shake my head.

It's supposed to be a hobby -- fun. And welcoming and inclusive.

When did we let others decide what we could own or paint or play with?

I don't think GW has a helpful attitude toward the hobby or their audience at all. I think they are just in it for the money and their audience is looked at as compliant sheep to be sheared.

I post this as a non-GW collector or player and non-tournament gamer, so this may not reflect your own perspective or desires.

Their customer base, who are willing to put up with this practice are the ones I blame. Not to mention the price they are willing to pay for the figures to replace the obsolete ones.
Strangely, I don't blame GW. They're perfectly happy to supply their gullible customers. 🤷
Can anyone actually claim that the "new" rules, codexes and figures are superior? That the upgrades are worth it?

OK – I'm not a GW player & maybe I don't know what I'm talking about.

But – apart from making GW obscene amounts of money – do upgrades, re-writes, new figures, retiring old figures etc constantly re-invigorate the game?

You don't grow stale with 40K because it constantly evolves?

Not for you & not for me but it seems to strike a chord amongst its adherents.

The problem in matched play is balance which is why GW has quarterly balance updates. The more variety you have the harder it is to balance things so by limiting old options you have less combinations to worry about. In Magic the Gathering you have Standard Format, Eternal, etc that limits the card pool.

Kill Team uses "Classified" and with 30+ teams it's another way to control balance by limiting combinations

Not to mention the price they are willing to pay for the figures to replace the obsolete ones.

If competitive play is how you hobby, it's important. You are also likely traveling to the majors like Las Vegas Open, AdeptiCon, NOVA open, etc.

For narrative and casual play legends is fine.

I still find it hilarious when people ALWAYS chime in on Games Workshop related threads to complain about how all they care about is money and how GW must be stupid to charge their prices and run their company as they do. It is, and has basically been for decades, the single most successful and profitable miniatures/games company in the world; in fact, under traditional business metrics, it is one of the most profitable companies for its size, period, in the UK.

This complaining is doubly hilarious because this forum, and hobby overall, is so dominated by rah-rah conservative-leaning pro-capitalists who rarely pass on an opportunity to decry socialism and anything smacking of socioeconomic equity. All these people just don't want capitalism applied to THEIR pocketbooks and hobbies. Suck it up, buttercups, GW like every other company will charge you and conduct itself to take as much money as it legally can from your wallet. If you don't like it, don't buy their stuff, and quit complaining about it to everyone who still wants to buy it.

Years ago, and I don't know if they still do, it was referred to as "The GW Hobby". As if they were totally separated from history nerds, or God forbid, OTHER heretical or schismatic fantasy or science fiction gaming. 😱
Like fencing being separate from goldfish breeding.
To me, it emphasized the cult like nature.

@Yogi etc
You are expanding on the "How dare a hobby company be profitable!" idea. 😄

I'm not complaining. I just don't like how they …trick… customers with very predictable upgrades, etc.
I could see the same thing with Battlefront and Flames of War. 3rd edition was perfectly good as is. But, they were running out of periods for army lists. Do they came out with the inferior 4th edition.
GW had one advantage over FoW. There is no such thing as a proprietary Sherman or Panther tank. Battlefront TRUED to make their models mandatory, but it was quickly shot down. Probably because FoW players were a generation older than GW players and, let's face it, Grumpy Old Men who already had collections before those scalawags came along.

Boredom.

Innui.

Monotony.

Any activity can eventually suffer from repetition.
As an historical gamer, i game about 10 periods. When one gets a little slow, I switch painting & gaming to another.

I suspect GW's retiring of figures & constants updates serves the same purpose. The game(s) are constantly re-invigorated. Made new, made fresh, inspiring new interest.

YogiBear – I think your post a bit of an over reaction. Opinions, after all. And I think the majority of posters were quite supportive of GW in general.

Personally, I think the wargaming hobby would be diminished if they didn't exist. And I take an interest in it, albeit from the outside. Who couldn't be amazed by the quality of the figures & the usually inspired painting jobs done on them by, it seems, practically every GW wargamer?

I could add my son is a GW gamer. He has a Tau army which I gather, may diminish him in many people's eyes 87)

The aspect of GW's marketing that I have never liked is its use of 'The Games Workshop Hobby' as if general fantasy and science fiction wargaming did not exist, and that there were no alternatives to their rules and figures.

Peter Berry, for example, who produces both 6mm figures and wargame rules for them in the UK, does not claim there is a 'Baccus Hobby' and that only his figures may be used in games put on at the Joy of Six event.

The 15 Mill magazine, published online by Peter Pig, whilst being devoted to wargaming with 15 mm figures, does not insist that articles only refer to their figures and rules.

When I was teaching, if any of my young pupils expressed an interest in 'The GW Hobby' I always pointed out to them that there were other – often cheaper – figures and rules that they could use if they were not bothered about entering GW competitions, and that if they liked the GW rules, they could still use other figures in their games. If they still then decided to follow the GW route, at least they were making an informed choice.

Years back, one of the gw designer was complaining he didn't get final say on points and effectiveness of figures. Instead of theme and balance, newer things the company wanted to sell were made more attractive. Then of course nerfed and out powered by later models. The game being designed to make money out of figures.

Whilst obviously good for the bottom line, I can understand customer dissatisfaction. Take a while to finish building and painting your army and you could find built in obsolescence had bit you.

Slow painters, like me, have been burned after purchasing figures halfway through the life cycle of an "edition", or "codex".
As soon as I had painted up 120 Forest Goblins, way back, they suddenly became … redundant. 🙄
I really liked "Savage Orcs", but luckily had only purchased 10 of them. So, I lucked out there.