"Making new game markers that blend with the table" Topic

It seems I'm on a never ending quest to improve my game markers, or more to the point, make them serve their purpose and be a lot less conspicuous on the table as game markers. So, here I go again. Time will be the true test, but I think I have some workable ideas here. A longish post about the journey and the results here on the blog: Making new game markers

Here are a couple of the ideas for the overwatch markers:

Very clever. I think you have to add the figures as something to grab when moving the nicely thin markers. Really well thought out.

Not wargamed in 40 years, but always hate to see tables with rulers, dice, beer mugs, protractors and plastic rings or various colours scattered atop. I liked your comment about thecare gone into painting atank ruined by poor tactical markers.

TP, you've done a ton of work on the look of your order markers these years!

I was thinking of something similar to make a few mod-rules order counters look more subdued – starting with this set -

With these I've tried to use their shapes to inform players to their involved actions (also tried to eliminate the required number of them too).

As a thematic thought……could your tank CO counters be on a round base, thereby looking like their still mounted in a cupola, maybe with arc bars on the base…..and/or maybe using shape suggestions like those above?

Overall, if refining game rules, one could approach with that old less is more approach sometimes.

I like your ideas. I've played with red and yellow pipe cleaner markers on the table, for years, in other peoples' games. I used printed tent cards for Shaken/Routing markers, along with yellow and red pipe cleaners, and even small puff balls from a craft store. Never liked any of it.

I found some animal markers made by a now-defunct company: Goats, and Chickens.

I use the Goats to mark Shaken Units: they can attack an enemy from the side, or rear, but not frontally -- which is typically how Goats attack Humans. LOL!

The Chickens are pretty good for marking Routing Units.

I keep a group of Goats and Chicken figures on the table, out of the combat zones, so everyone can grab them as needed -- they look like animals in groups, on the terrain. When a Shaken/Routing marker is needed, the players just grab a Goat or a Chicken placing it amidst the Unit's figures, and everyone knows what they mean. It really cleans up the look of the tabletop.

In my games, that is all that is needed: two markers, only two Morale conditions of note; overwatch is not applicable to a medieval-based fantasy game. You do have me re-thinking the markers I use in my Army Men figures game, however. Cheers!

Nice stuff. I try to limit info counters on the table too:

Overwatch: That's the default order, no marker needed. The unit's best observation in the direction the gun is pointing. That enables him to react, engage and fire more quickly. If you get flanked, you'll most likely be surprised and lose the initiative for the first shot.

Opportunty Fire: Since my system uses timing, there is no need for additional rules. A moving unit can move out of your LOS if you are too slow.

Unbuttoned: On 1/144+ scale models, I glued a small rare-earth magnet to the cupola and painted over it. I place a steel BB, painted black or green, on the magnet to indicate an unbuttoned commander.

I use 3/4 inch cardboard counters for hull down, etc with an image on it reflecting what it is.

Movement: moving units have a movement marker showing the speed and distance they'll move in a movement segment. It simulates simultaneous movement. No marker is static.

I do need to make the figures for infantry and crew suppression and Hunker Down.

I track unit orders and timing to execute their order off the table.

I'm a lot lazier and less talented than you are.

Wolfhag

Great work, but I am of the opposite school of thought. While it is great for the ambiance of the game table to have everything blend in, I want to know and be able to see a unit that requires a marker and just what is the status. I don't want game markers lost in the lichen at day's end as well. Now FlyXWire is correct in getting rules on the table that require less markers is in my opinion the best approach as less is more. If markers are required I want to be able to see them.

Thank you for sharing your ideas. Those look very nice and useful.

Not wargamed in 40 years, but always hate to see tables with rulers, dice, beer mugs, protractors and plastic rings or various colours scattered atop. I liked your comment about thecare gone into painting atank ruined by poor tactical markers.

I think if I didn't do so many photographs for the game reports on the blog I'd be less invested in refining my markers, but often I find that small things really catch your eye in the photos – joins in sections of road can look like massive earthquake cracks in a picture, while not being particularly obvious to the naked eye. The same applies with game markers that don't blend with the table or figures (or sit right on top of an AFV!).

As a thematic thought……could your tank CO counters be on a round base, thereby looking like their still mounted in a cupola, maybe with arc bars on the base…..and/or maybe using shape suggestions like those above?

I hunted through the spares box of any cupolas or hatches that I might use, but couldn't find any, so settled for keeping things very simple. These were very quick to make and cost almost nothing, so there's plenty of scope to adapt or change them over time. That's certainly one idea, thanks.

I keep a group of Goats and Chicken figures on the table, out of the combat zones, so everyone can grab them as needed -- they look like animals in groups, on the terrain. When a Shaken/Routing marker is needed, the players just grab a Goat or a Chicken placing it amidst the Unit's figures, and everyone knows what they mean. It really cleans up the look of the tabletop.

Brilliant idea and very thematic. I think you also hit the nail on the head when you say that everyone knows what they mean – after all, that's all that really matters.

I am always looking for some ideas to hide clutter. I try to camouflage the markers in my games. I play with guys who are just the opposite. They want big bright primary color markers on their figures. Drives me crazy.

I have done something similar, although not nearly as well modeled, for a sub-set of the markers for my ODGW Mein Panzer gaming.

The four markers I had found that I needed most often in a game were:
1 – (Armor) "FIREPOWER KILL"
2 – (Armor) "MOBILITY KILL"
3 – (Infantry) "SUPPRESSED"
4 – (Infantry) "HALF STRENGTH"

Every one uses modeled markers for knocked-out tanks. I mean, we all use smoke or flame for that, right? So I did fire and smoke for knock-outs, and only smoke (thin black extended billows), that could be hooked under the turret gun main gun for a FIREPOWER KILL, and under the hull for a MOBILITY KILL.

Here is a game-time example of two German Marders who got caught in the open. One has been destroyed (flame and smoke), the other has taken a hit which generated a mobility kill (smoke under the hull) but did not destroy the vehicle.

For the infantry I use a small puff ball in dirt color for SUPPRESSED, which is placed on the flocked squad stand to indicate that the squad is under fire. And a casualty marker of a prone figure on a small thin red plastic base to go on the squad stand to indicate it is HALF STRENGTH.

Here is a pic of some Red Army infantry that has come under artillery fire. The casualty markers on the stands will travel with the stands to indicate that these are HALF STRENGTH squads. The casualty markers on the table are left there when a squad is fully eliminated, giving some visual sense of where the tough battles were fought. In this case I had not yet come to the small puff ball markers for "SUPPRESSED" markers yet, so you can see the actual markers that are provided with the ruleset. But you can also see the larger puff-balls I use to mark artillery fire. For suppression markers I now use little BB-sized puff balls of similar material, that I can just plonk down onto the squad stands.

Now looking through various game-time pics, and at the fine work shown at the top of the thread, I am noodling how I might replace the too-often used "ACTIVATED" markers with some visually appealing modeled solution. I can see the "OVERWATCH" markers already in TP's work. Maybe an MP-like figure waving or giving directions for ACTIVATED? Hmmm, gonna give that some more thought.

-Mark
(aka: Mk 1)

Small fluffs of cotton wool or similar. Colour them brown, beige, grey or black for different purposes. Also, small blobs of lichen in different colours. These all look quite natural when placed on or immediately next to units.

These are what I use to mark immobilizations – the flat detent is for the tank's track. (these are in 1/144th scale, but bet they could work for smaller scales too – easy to sculpt out of epoxy putty, meant to look/convey thematic).

One way to limit counters is, whenever possible, use a cube with a different marker on each side. Paint the cube green and make the icons in light, earth colors like tan.

Pin marker dials for Bolt Action:

Old Contemptible said:

I am always looking for some ideas to hide clutter. I try to camouflage the markers in my games. I play with guys who are just the opposite. They want big bright primary color markers on their figures. Drives me crazy.

Ugh! Most of my group is the same. The fantasy rules I use employ business card roster sheets for each Unit. The problem I have is that the players like to put the cards with the Units, on the tabletop… I understand why, but it ruins the tabletop view, IMO.

To make it easier for everyone, I began using small, colored plastic pegs, on each figure's base: every figure within a given Unit would have the same color plastic bead/peg on it, in the same rear corner. I first glued a small wooden dowel in the rear corner, with the plastic colored peg sliding over it -- I could reconfigure Units by changing out the pegs to make different Unit sizes.

For Unit Leader figures (the advanced rules require a separate Leader figure from the Unit), I add a white peg to the Unit's color peg: if the Leader is killed, the Unit becomes Shaken (disordered), and out of command, moving half, fighting poorly, etc. Pretty straightforward, easy to recognize/remember.

The peg's color was noted on the Unit Roster card. Heck, I even taped a peg/bead onto the Unit Card Roster to make it foolproof.

I discovered that the beads/pegs would fall off of the wooden dowel, very easily; I also learned that I really did not vary the Units enough to need the versatility of removable colored pegs… I then began just Hot Gluing the pegs onto each figure's base, making permanent Unit configurations, as well as permently marking the Leaders for each Unit.

I still had to ask everyone to remove the cards from the tabletop. They complied, and the game was much more enjoyable -- for me! I hope they enjoyed it more, but I never asked. LOL! Everyone did ask to be invited to my next fantasy game, so I guess it did not bother them.

I try to limit the markers as much as possible, but I really need to define which figures belong to each Unit -- things get messy without clear markings for Unit composition.

In my Army Men games, it is even harder: the figures are mostly the same limited numbers of different castings; Unit notation is even more necessary with the Army Men figures.

I tried the colored plastic pegs in a large game (12-foot by 32-foot table), and it was incredibly helpful. I had five players, and their forces were intermixed heavily, so the markers made it easy for each player to know which figures were theirs to control -- it eliminated sooo much confusion we had in previous games.

With both my fantasy games, and in my Army Men games, the colored pegs have been outstandingly good! They are a small distraction we can easily live with. Cheers!

Ugh! Most of my group is the same. The fantasy rules I use employ business card roster sheets for each Unit. The problem I have is that the players like to put the cards with the Units, on the tabletop… I understand why, but it ruins the tabletop view, IMO.

Guys in my area like rules that use playing cards for activation – Sarge, the same thing happens, no IMO about it – "Ugh!".

I think some of the problem comes from rules that don't care what your tabletop looks like, but it's the end-product of their PRODUCT. (and they'll sell you the markers or cards too!)

If aesthetics is a goal of the miniatures hobby, look for rules that don't require nicknacks sitting around on the board to play a game.

We've likely all read lots of rules reviews (LittleWarsTV has a ton), but one parameter I don't see often listed – how many markers are going to end up cluttering what is supposed to be your miniature battlefield?

Some of the markers just seem daft, if you have a tank, Turn the turret to face the direction its looking, you don't need a marker, If need to n some cases have a protractor to define the angle, but mostly it's not needed and nothing on the table. Written word markers again seem superfluous if you have experienced player, they will allocate meaning with the shape.

We do use markers in many cases, where neccessary and like you we do our best tone them down. A bright white marker with a number on it shows up like a sore thumb, tone it down to a light to medium gray and it stands out far less but the marked number is still very legable. While the above may seem a bit negative. Your aims are very well intentioned and best of luck.

There may also be a player standard issue, more subtle markers are great for experiences players but not beginners.

The best players don't use dummy markers they just use the map. This is too hard for beginners who need markers to "rigidly define the areas of doubt and uncertainty".

PS hull down I use a 3D printed and flocked barrier that fits round the front of the tank about hull height, blends well and at 1/144 is easy to store. I use two markers that look like a "Blast". Grey for "reaction" and a more colour full Explosion type for suppression. Again 3D printed and hand painted so as to have some variation which helps with the look.

Perhaps a "show us your markers" thead would be of interest?

"rigidly define the areas of doubt and uncertainty"

LOL – like that Ush.

Here's some I showed of my recent Cold War 1/500th scale kit (these track platoon-stand hits) -

Now this is like "The Old Days" on TMP.

Clearly a topic title that has caught massive numbers of "hits", but, more importantly, got folk involved to comment and "add content".

The subject is not of the slightest relevance to me, but it has proved fascinating to see the ingenuity that gamers have shown here. Ten years from now IT will have it all solved for you and decide before you could even find a counter or symbol.

Ten years from now IT will have it all solved for you and decide before you could even find a counter or symbol.

And in this brave new world of gamin', we'll all be sticking our noses down in a device, barely muttering a sound, as that "IT" AI tell us – YOU LOSE!

The trouble is, we'll believe it too. :)))

(DH, I think we may be there already)

Ten years from now IT will have it all solved for you and decide before you could even find a counter or symbol.

That is not even a consideration for me. It would be like saying Hang gliding will go away as better more sophisticated means of flying are now possible. I don't want to be staring at a tablet, and be forever typing in values. I want a scale representation of a map. Hell when trying to view where to put a component on a real engine, the designers go and look at the real thing. They have it on a screen in great detail, but looking at a physical situation is much more enlightening.
May be a Hologram sticking out of a very thin base may be better than an actual painted figure, but then you may have issues picking the thin base up.

3D printing helps make markers faster, and quicker and allows more artistry in a short time, but in my book replacing them by computer is not an acceptable solution.

Some of my Markers:-

Hull down and Suppression (orange) and Reaction (grey) markers in this picture.

What is a marker?

I have stuff I would not call a model so is it a marker? For a scenario we needed boats. But a model boat is WAY to big for the river so I made a "boat" marker, not great but better than a piece of card. This was the first outing, unpainted so in Bare 3D pint filament at a low resolution. In the scenario it carries 8 troops and a 2 rating operating as boat crew.

The issue of dice frames and mini dice is one of those things where it's purely a matter of taste. It either works for you, or it doesn't. There is no right or wrong. Interestingly I had comments elsewhere that themed dial markers would be better than mini dice. As it so happens I also have dials, so I thought I'd make the comparison.

First, we have 20mm figures on 20mm round bases next to one of my dice frame markers and one of my dials.

Quite a difference in size, in particular the dial's large footprint. Now look at the height of the dial. It's made up of three 2mm thick MDF rounds. After I've added texture and flock it measures over 8mm in height – almost half the height of a 20mm figure.

The dice frame footprint is much smaller.

If all my games were in open terrain, this might not matter, but playing Second World War means there will be buildings and I'm not sure there is room for figures and game markers this large in those tighter confines. There is the issue of form following function to consider.

I also wonder if the number on the dial is any less intrusive or out of place than the mini-dice? Both occupy the same amount of space.

To be honest, I'm not sure it makes a difference even with a larger scale, in this case some 28mm Saxons.

I think the dice frame is more discrete than the dial, but at the end of the day this is all about personal preference, not who is right or wrong. Interesting to run the comparison nonetheless.

I use a d4 die as a status marker for many systems. Even blank one if needed, with stickers.

Like FlyXWire I am very much of the opinion that Less is More, I've been to many of his games and seen the efforts he puts in to achieve his excellent results. His games are well thought out and truly visually a sight to behold. They are great representatives of the hobby as we would like it to be. He does hit the nail on the head regarding the rule sets that are designed to or at least lead to clutter on the table and I think this is the key to the entire discussion.

Within the last year I have switched my universal skirmish rule sets twice to achieve a better flowing game and a happy side benefit was the reduction in game gear. This latter point is important to me as my rule is that everything for the game must fit into one blue IKEA bag and if it doesn't, it doesn't go.

One Hour Skirmish Wargame Rules are simple, plays fast and have minimal kit, in that it is all based on cards with a diceless system. I moved from that because it played almost too fast and left the players feeling that they had barely set down and the game was over before it started. No markers were involved as your figs only had two different states, up or down. Gamers also like to roll dice.

Fistful of Lead was my next try as it used card activation, 3 different dice for combat results, a variety of markers for status and was generally popular in my area. I really wanted it to work out. It did okay if you don't mind the table clutter and the gear to buy and carry.

Now I'm trying the Song of Blades series and I have a random dice 🎲 based activation, D6s as the only type of dice, range/movement sticks and no real need for markers. Reducing my table clutter, buy in and things to carry by numerous items including leaving the tape measures at home. So far I'm happy with the results of this system.

Ruled that are from the outset designed with fewer pieces of markers and gear are the solution to this issue. It is up to the game designers to resolve.

Thanks Fitz!

I've watched as Kev has worked his way up the game ladder these past years (while also being busy organizing most of our area events too).

One of his latest efforts elicited his achievement of having a half-page QRS for one of his systems (of course, I let him know we're both close to being on the same 'half-page' now…..with the hobby). :)))

Lightening the load, having efficient game kit, are pretty essential to the philosophy of our area gaming – if we aren't putting this in the forefront of our goals, lots of our gaming would have collapsed by now (especially historical wargaming)…..this involves convention presentation too (its health).

Perhaps this thread, and with TPs (and others) great modeling examples, there's a tone sounding, or maybe a harmonious chord – as sometimes we need to deconstruct what we've been doing….there may be easier and better ways towards a goal.

Tactical painter of the two markers you showed the die cage looks best. The Die disc looks awful, far too big. A 3D printed one could be as small as the die cage system but without the die. The die also looks better as it is Black with white dots, far less intrusive than the white background with black numeral.

However neither to me are an optimum solution.
Oue optimum is a small (smaller then either one of yours) of which the key feature is a small piece of laminated grey.
paper to write on with a dry wipe markers. A finger is sufficent to rub out one figure anD it's very fast to write another figure on. We use a small grey one side piece of plastic, the other is green as we flip over the marker doing 2 jobs with the same marker.

We recently (about 1 year) thickened our markers from the ideal visual thickness (1mm) to 2mm as one of our players was having trouble getting hold of a 1mm thick marker, you never can win . It helps if the write on bit is set in about 1mm as it helps protect the dry wipe marker, Our latest does this as it also reduces bulk being thick at the edges only, but still aides the dexteriously impared pick it up. We have been using the system for 16 years most weeks so you could say its a proven technology.

For damage makers we do the same, as we have more damage types to cover and it's faster to write than sort through the various types of damage.

Again its personal choice but the game time used up by markers is the key factor. Visual compromise is acceptable for faster play.

For casualty markers in BA when there is a base with multiple figures on it i.e. a crew served weapon, instead of having removable figures mounted on separate bases which I think spoils the look of the base, I just use Jerry cans as casualty markers until there are enough casualties for the base to be removed. .

I also try and hide the markers and have also gone with micro dice and 20mm mdf bases flocked to match surroundings. The Dials are just to large and obtrusive. If you look on TP site you will see the idea of different color dice representing different conditions. I had the same idea and just use the colors differently. White dice to indicate shock when unit becomes pinned the white dice change to red and when unit is broken the dice become black.

TacticalPainter01 said, "The issue of dice frames and mini dice is one of those things where it's purely a matter of taste. It either works for you, or it doesn't."

I was always a big fan of the dials, however, recently I have been trying out using small dice frames (and small dice). I have to admit, I am starting to use these dice frames more and more in my games.

TacticalPainter01 said, "The issue of dice frames and mini dice is one of those things where it's purely a matter of taste. It either works for you, or it doesn't."

I was always a big fan of the dials, however, recently I have been trying out using small dice frames (and small dice). I have to admit, I am starting to use these dice frames more and more in my games.

My most recent marker was a Replen Point for an American 60mm mortar team for Chain of Command. I decided to paint the mini dice to match the colour scheme of the mortar rounds. I was surprised at what a difference it made and how it made the dice a lot less conspicuous. That's a path I might explore even further….