"Thoughts on 1973 Ironclad by Guidon Games" Topic

I am a fan of Tom Wham. In 1973 he and Don Lowry co-wrote a set of ACW naval rules called Ironclad.

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It's now *extremely* expensive. Which makes me wonder what kind of magic is in there. Is it a really good set of rules lost to time? Did another game do what it does better? Is it only sentiment that is driving the price up? What was great about it?

If you've ever played it or read it I would love to hear about it!

Thanks

It's probably the connection to D&D that is driving up the price. I believe the "mark off draft boxes as damage is taken, when 0 then sink" rules mechanism is the direct progenitor of "hit points" in D&D.

I think a lot of rules from that era are priced more for nostalgia than anything else.
I sold a lot at flea markets from that period.
I sold White Box DnD for $25 USD, and thought I was ripping the guy off.
I had SPI's the Conquerors, mint, unpunched. A guy asked what I wanted for it. I said $20. USD He gaped at me, threw a $20 USD bill on the table, grabbed it and ran away. Was he afraid I would change my mind?

Regarding your query about rules. Well, as Ecclesiastes says, "There is nothing new under the sun. What has been, will be." 👍😄 (And that goes double for those companies, naming no names, that "upgrade" their rules every 3 or 4 years when sales plateau with the "current edition".

I may have had those rules in the past. I may have had some generic ironclads. But I don't remember. I tend to not hold on to projects that I never play. And I don't get nostalgic about them either, replaying old rules in my mind.

Yup. There is someone on Ebay trying to sell a boxed set of Tractics for $350. USD But no takers….it just relisted and relisted and….

Through the 80s and 90s…..played almost every month. Had a friend who had it. We frequently played a weird gladiator game. Draw a ship at random, play it free for all style, ship sinks…draw another. We had played every scenario multiple times and even our own made up ones.

The friend died about 12 years ago….I have LOT of his game stuff. His son sold off a lot of it. We NEVER found Ironclads.

You're the person I was hoping to find! Based on your substantial experience would you say that this is a lost classic that is awesome even though it comes from a primitive time like The Sword And The Flame, or is it just another move-and-shoot game that has been surpassed by the many other games done on the topic since? I'm not asking for a whole review, just a general idea.

And how close are the Jackson Gamers' rules to the original? If anyone can remember?

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I firmly disagree with the notion that simple games are "surpassed" by something new, just because it's more complicated.
Does the older simple game give historical results? Why gild the Lily?

I have the rules and played them when they first came out. After I bought Yaquinto's board game, Ironclads (they are completely unrelated regardless of title), I found lots of disagreement as to gun damage and penetration capabilities between the two sets. I also remember playing a convention game where the Confederate cottonclads with a single 32 pounder on the front kept sinking the Union City class ironclads with just a few shots, even against the front armor. That was just wrong.

I rate them as a nostalgia item and not a set of rules worth the price being asked.

Which game mechanism do you prefer? If the Guidon Games rules work better, change the stats. I won't report you to the Rules Compliance Committee Police. 😄👍

I think we have "tweaked" or adapted just about every set of rules we play. The only things we stand pat on are "tournament rules".