"Take Iranian regime 'off the table'?" Topic

…"I think what is in the offing here is Israel knows full well, even though they have significant imagination and significant covert capability, they know that there's a couple of deeply buried sites that are very challenging for them to get to with air power and… I'm assuming they would like the United States to assist them in achieving that end state."…

Fox Business: link

Yes they have been talking about it. IMO and many others, do what you have to do to take the nukes out play. And mostly the Ayatollah, and his Regime needs to go one way or another.

If the Free Iranians do what happened to Mussolini to the Ayatollah and some of his regime. So be it … Video at 11 !

Most of their leadership is dead by now or will be any way. Being a fundamental islamic leader is not an upwardly mobile career choice. Unless hit by HE and blown up in the air and in every other direction.

Wesley Clark today: "I hope they [Israel] don't go nuclear."

The US should support Israel in everything short of actually firing weapons at a live opponent. So US warships in the Gulf or the Med taking out a rocket, missile or drone is fine.

But I don't support US airstrikes nor ground forces of any kind.

Perhaps a B2 could be leased to Israel and a few MOAB munitions and they can fly some missions to take out the deep bunkers. Then we get it back when the war is over.

A new secular government would be a great thing for the region and for peace, as well as the Iranian people. But let the region handle it.

Just like Ukraine, provide the means but let the locals do the fighting. If we did that in Vietnam we would have saved 50,000 American lives and the fate of the South Vietnamese would have been in the hands of South Vietnam, South Korea, Japan, Philippines, Thailand, Australia and other forces in the region who had more stake in the game then we did.

Israel seems willing to step up and some of the other locals are reported to have been shooing down missile and drones as well, Good for them, good for us.

Mike

All good points. I am all in favor of taking away Iran's ability to make nukes but I really doubt this is going to lead to regime change in the country.

link

This may be the one shot to take out the Iranian nuke program. According to all reports, that will require MOABs. The planes can go in and out virtually unopposed. I'm not a fan of US involvement. But this is a one time opportunity.

I prefer Bunks method, but if that is impossible, I believe it needs to be done.

But NO MORE nation building!! No boots on the ground.

🤔

"I hope they [Israel] don't go nuclear."

I worked with Clarke briefly when he was an LTC or COL at Bragg. But I have no real insight other than what we see in the media. However, he certainly was not dumb, not knowledgeable, etc. from my POV.

Regardless Israel has had nuke for decades. And I don't think they'll use them unless some islamic group or nation would fire first … But I wouldn't be surprised if it looked like nukes were going to deployed against them. Preemptive conventional strikes, like in '67. Would be the better solution. Even a small nuke will do damage and cause some radioactive fallout. That is a bad thing …

The USA already said they will not per se "Lend Lease"/let the IDF borrow US heavy bomber assets to deliver MOPs. Which IMO has merit …

But again the Ayatollah basically said today, "No Retreat, no surrender" … And reports are they are readying ordinance to strike US troops in the region. Guess he wants to go to paradise pretty badly.

The POTUS has warned him continuously …

I have heard and agree … "You can't fix stupid." …

But you can kill it … most of the times … I'd think …

But NO MORE nation building!! No boots on the ground.

I have said that many times before. There is nothing there to seize/hold/secure, etc. … only destroy. Everything that has to be can be done from the air.

And once the bad guys are all dead, gone, etc. The IDF and some of the neighboring Arab nations, plus maybe with a little "tech" support from the US, possibly the UK, etc. go in to help sort out certain things.

BTW Iran is the size of AK or 2 TXs … or 75 Israels …

Could a "bunker buster" be deployed out the back of a C-130, like the MOAB? If the bomb has "guidance," would it matter how it got to the target? Is it guided? You would think that other countries would have developed deep penetrating mega-bombs. Do the Russian's have one?

I know the MOP[Massive Ordinance Penetrator] is heavier/has a bigger payload than the MOAB. It might fit in the new C-130J model ? It is a little bigger and more powerful than the H and other 130 models.

Our nearby USAFR base is trading their Hs in for Js. They have two so far. Was there when the first J landed and checked it out. Yeah a big improvement over the H. The pilots I talked to, though few at that point were trained to fly the J, they did like it.

And I was told, it is not like going from one C-130 model to another. You have to get trained on the J; you just can't just get a check flight and transition over. So that may be a concern ? I don't know if the IDF has Js yet ? They are still being made and sent out to USAF/USAFR units. Will be years before the whole US air fleet are Js.

As far as who else has something like a MOP … I don't think I know of anyone else has anything like it ? Probably pretty expensive.

Thanks Ralph, very helpful.

Glad to help … Going to a meeting/dinner at the Airbase on 25 June. I'll see if I can pick up a little more intel. Of course this may be over by then!

I am wondering….

Could the big bombs create a sort of dirty bomb by detonating in the middle of radioactive materials?

Why did the Prez tell the world "we" know where the top guy is? Cause it seems like the Supremo sure would not hang around after hearing that, plus it would trigger a review of their security measures and cause changes it might take sometime to figure out. It seems like "we" are trying to grab some headlines, getting into the picture for what the Israelis have done. As in the Prez saying "I may attack. Or maybe I won't. (But look at me everybody!)"

Given the history of the region, and the fact that we can never eliminate all the bad guys, won't this war be used as an incentive to recruit new proxies to keep fighting Israel and the west? At least the Israelis are buying us some time, maybe quite a bit for a while, but we never seem to end these organizations, as in the fairly rapid return of a decentralized Isis now.

All very interesting, if scary, stuff.

I've read an article that doubts if the US military has the capability to take out the bunkers:
link

I've no idea if that's true.
If Trump, to counter falling domestic poll numbers, decides to attack, this in-built failure might deter him?

I also think the idea that the US will find proxies to fight this war for them (apart from Israel, of course) is delusional. Unnecessary, hopeless & expensive wars such as Vietnam(!!?!) & the Gulf (imaginary 'weapons of mass destruction') etc have certainly dampened any enthusiasm to join in with American military adventurism. And Tariff Wars certainly haven't helped spark any pro-US feelings.

So, if 'boots on the ground' are needed, they'll be Israeli & American boots.

The 'best case' scenario would be Iran coming to negotiate.
Let's hope.

Could the big bombs create a sort of dirty bomb by detonating in the middle of radioactive materials?

It could but the probability would be low.

Why did the Prez tell the world "we" know where the top guy is? Cause it seems like the Supremo sure would not hang around after hearing that, plus it would trigger a review of their security measures and cause changes it might take sometime to figure out. It seems like "we" are trying to grab some headlines, getting into the picture for what the Israelis have done. As in the Prez saying "I may attack. Or maybe I won't. (But look at me everybody!)"

He's saber rattling, talking trash, etc. BTW if the IDF or USA wanted the Ayatollah and his retinue dead … They would be already. The POTUS told the IDF not to pull the trigger … not just yet anyway. Like so many others, they don't understand what Trump's MO, predilections, etc.

The best outcome is the IDF continues to attrite Iran's leaders and the IRGC.

Then the Free Iranians with support of Iran's army overthrows the remnants.

Capture the Ayatollah along with some of his staff, etc. And hang them in the street. Like the Ayatollah and his minions
have done to so many, so many times before …

The nuke material, etc. goes nowhere. And is properly disposed on by the US, etc.

Iran gets real leadership and becomes a peaceful member of the world.

I've read an article that doubts if the US military has the capability to take out the bunkers:

I've no idea if that's true.

That is false … The Massive Ordinance Penetrator[MOP] packing 30,000lbs of HE. Has to be delivered by a B-2 or B-52. Even if it does not go as deep as it may need to take out the entire target. But like when a mine caves in. That is enough to make whatever in down there useless.

Everything else you posted is wrong, inaccurate, false, etc. E.g.:

The 'best case' scenario would be Iran coming to negotiate.
Let's hope.

Other than the Ayatollah and his staff, etc. being dead. There is no reason to make a deal with them to not get nukes. They have played both Obama and Biden, only resulting in both giving them billions. That was used on supporting islamic terrorism and their nuke program.

This is an opportunity to end this islamic fanatical threat. Not just taking them off the board, but neuter the moslem terrorist they supported. E.g. Hamas, Hezbollah and the Houthis.

Otherwise, the same thing will happen with them trying to get nukes and support islamic terrorism, 5-10 years from now.

Just like when the IDF left Gaza in 2006. Nothing changed and the IDF had to go back … The IDF is still cleaning up Hamas, etc. And still 50 hostages are MIA.

You cannot trust islamic radical fundamentalists who want to kill everyone who is not them … To believe otherwise is just denying the reality and will get more people killed … Dead men tell no tales and can't kill you … if they are already dead. Kill them before they kill you … That is how you survive. That is the way I was trained.

Rather bloodthirsty, Ralph. I'm assuming you won't be deployed? "War is young men dying and old men talking," a quote, attributed to Franklin D. Roosevelt.

"sabre rattling, talking trash"
"wrong, inaccurate, false,"
Free lesson in writing style – listing two or three synonyms doesn't make your baseless assertions stronger. You really have to stop doing this to improve your prose. Pick what you think is the most accurate & strongest descriptor & stick to it.

BTW Obama & Biden didn't give Iran "billions". This is a distortion of what was given – their own, frozen assets back. Not one red cent from the American taxpayer. Should this have been done? Maybe not but this is not what you are claiming.
link

I *do* respect you, Ralph & your military service (what was it again?) but you need to research your claims so they hold up. Wishful thinking isn't a valid argument.

The Massive Ordnance Penetrator is a 30,000-pound bunker buster bomb

In "Top Gun: Maverick," the Navy is tasked with destroying an underground uranium enrichment plant in an unnamed foreign country. Maverick's plan requires two bombs to be dropped: the first to hit an exposed ventilation hatch and the second to travel down the shaft as the kill shot. This tandem strike wouldn't be necessary if Maverick had been in the Air Force. The Air Force would have used it's most powerful "bunker buster:" the 30,000-pound GBU-57 Massive Ordnance Penetrator…"

link

link

Armand

Reagan also released impounded Iranian funds, so did the first Bush. The history of trying to deal with Iran starts with him. This is not really a partisan issue. Didn't Iran win a decades long court case to get their frozen assets returned while Obama was in office?

Thanks, Tango.

Still, it seems the Peace President doesn't believe it & is…. hesitating.

Tort a little short of the actual start😉

It started with "Mr. Peanut"🥜

"Jimmy Carter's presidency (1977-1981) was significantly impacted by Iran, particularly during the Iranian Revolution and the subsequent hostage crisis. The Carter administration initially viewed Iran, under the Shah, as a key Cold War ally. However, Carter's policies and the Shah's actions contributed to the conditions that led to the revolution. The revolution resulted in the seizure of the US embassy in Tehran and a 444-day hostage crisis, severely damaging US-Iran relations.
Here's a more detailed breakdown:
Early Relationship:
The Carter administration, like previous administrations, saw Iran as a vital strategic ally in the Middle East and a major oil producer. In late 1977, Carter visited the Shah, praising Iran as an "island of stability".
The Shah's Downfall:
Despite the initial positive relationship, the Shah's autocratic rule and human rights abuses fueled growing discontent within Iran. The Carter administration, while aware of these issues, initially tried to balance support for the Shah with concerns about human rights.
Revolution and US Involvement:
The Iranian Revolution, led by Ayatollah Khomeini, ultimately led to the Shah's overthrow. Newly declassified documents reveal that the Carter administration had contact with Khomeini and his followers before the revolution. There are claims that the US discouraged the Iranian military from staging a coup to save the monarchy, but the extent of US involvement is debated.
Hostage Crisis:
In November 1979, Iranian students stormed the US embassy in Tehran and took 52 Americans hostage. The hostage crisis, which lasted 444 days, became a major foreign policy challenge for Carter.
Failed Rescue Attempt:
Carter authorized a military rescue mission, Operation Eagle Claw, in 1980, but it ended in failure.
Resolution:
The hostages were eventually released in January 1981, shortly after Carter left office, following negotiations mediated by Algeria.
Long-term Consequences:
The hostage crisis severely damaged US-Iran relations, which remain strained to this day. The crisis also had a profound impact on US domestic politics, contributing to Carter's defeat in the 1980 presidential election. "

"Despite the initial positive relationship, the Shah's autocratic rule and human rights abuses fueled growing discontent within "

All the do gooders who condemned the Shah (yes I remember it) and what they allowed to replace him. Talk about "human rights abuses". 🙄

But the same with South Africa. All the media attention back then, but now no one cares what's going on there.

Where is all the outrage about the situation in Nigeria? 🦗

Ochoin, thank you for comments and giving a rational view here. Agree with you.

Subject: Iran Opinion, June 2025 – Trafalgar Group


link

All and another today

Subject: Trump Approval, June 2025 – Trafalgar Group


link

Yes, I left out Jimmy because I thought he was mostly pre-regime change. I was mistaken.Carter did freeze and then agreed to release Iranian assets as part of a deal that became effective on Reagan's Inauguration Day, and which resulted in the release of the hostages. Reagan's interactions with Iran were his only real screw-ups over the years. He did not seem to get the ME the way he did the Soviets, IMO.

A votre service mon ami Ochoin…

Armand

"It started with "Mr. Peanut"🥜 "

I think it's cute the way you give affectionate nicknames to your presidents.

But back to the topic.
Which way do you think will "Ol' Flip Flop" go over joining the Iran War?

My guess is he'll make a decision based on strategic concerns eg how to lose the fewest votes in the mid-terms.

BTW this isn't an insult. Very few politicians make decisions based on morality & self-interest is always paramount here.

You mean like "Airbus"? 🙂

I will assume your question is sincere.

Well, he gave Iran plenty of time to negotiate. He has even offered them some more time. He has said they cannot have a nuke. I believe he will stand by that, but will hold off to the last possible moment.

He has kept Israel from killing Iran's leader so far, but that may change with the hospital hit. He has also stopped them from hitting Iran's oil industry, which should make China happy, since they suck up 80 to 90% of it. I'm sure Israel is tired of holding back. I don't blame them.

Since he has the support of 70% or so of the U.S. in handling Iran based on current polls. So He has the leeway in his decisions. But I believe he still wants a negotiated solution, he does not like military conflict.

If done. They will use at least 2 bunker busters. 1 then a 2nd guided in to follow the 1st directly. I would use 3, but I'm sure they know better than me.

Bombers are lined up on Diego Garcia.

"Recent reports indicate a significant deployment of U.S. bombers to the Diego Garcia military base in the Indian Ocean. This buildup includes both B-2 Spirit stealth bombers and B-52 Stratofortress bombers, along with supporting aircraft like KC-135 Stratotankers and F-15 fighter jets. The deployment is seen as a strategic move by the US, potentially signaling a strong message to Iran and other regional actors amidst rising tensions. "

It would appear that he makes many decisions based on who last talked to him. Or he says he will decided in two weeks and then nothing really happens.

I'll see your "Airbus" & raise you a "Taco".

+1 Grattan54

"There go the people. I must follow them, for I am their leader." Alexandre Auguste Ledru-Rollin

"the support of 70% or so of the U.S": You must conduct your own polls, OVI. I'm assuming your sample group are 6 of your drinking buddies.

"Only 16% support U.S. military action, and 24% are unsure".
link

Based on this, your leader will bow to the whim of the people & NOT intervene.

So you were not sincere. Surprise!

Check the "Trafalgar Group" polls I posted further up.

I prefer a leader who enjoys a good taco. As opposed to those who prefer wieners. There seem to be so many of those recently, all over the world. 🤔

Rather bloodthirsty,

Well I was in 4 line Infantry units. Trained and served with many combat Vets. Again … That is the way we were trained. Infantrymen to get the job done and survive have to be a "bloodthirsty" at times. Someone would be trying to kill us. You are trained how to survive. Kill them first … What is so hard to understand ?

I'm assuming you won't be deployed?

I'm 68 and bit lame. No I'm pretty sure they won't recall me. But when on active duty as an Infantry Officer leading a Rifle Plt in the 101. Do you know about US units like the 101. We were part of the US Army's rapid deployment force. BTW at that time I was 22-23 year old. I and all the troops in my Plt and Co. were young. Fighting in combat units is done by young men … And yes so is the dying … Everybody knows that.

We were always going on alert. When the hostage rescue mission in Iran had to be aborted we were put on alert … as a number of time like this before. We believed we might go to war. We thought sooner or later we would. The 101 was generally always involved.

Don't someone even think about saying to old men like me, my friends and comrades would not do or did not our duty. And just talk about. I just returned from a Vet Officers meeting/dinner. And yes we did talk about our experiences in the military. Many had served in Vietnam, and a few in Desert Storm

We were young once and would have been at the pointy end of the spear. We were not drafted we were officers. We volunteered …

So yeah if I was young and fit again and in the Army. If the unit was deployed. I'd be there, along with some of my comrades.

Free lesson in writing style

Really … you are really going to pull that kind of … You come off being condescending and pompous …

BTW Obama & Biden didn't give Iran "billions".

No matter how it was done. They gave billions of $ no matter where it came from to a "blood thirsty" islamic fanatical regime. That ended up kill many people including Americans …

Giving $ to islamists who want to kill you is really a bad idea. It was not their $ no matter what some court said. That money was from the Shah, an ally, to purchase US military equipment. The Shah was ousted, no long in power. That really is not the radical islamist's $. USD Someone might call it appeasement …

I was like giving bullets to someone who wants to shoot you.

BTW where did I say it was taxpayer $ ? I don't recall that.

I *do* respect you, Ralph & your military service (what was it again?)

No I don't think so, no matter. And I've said what I did in the military maybe too many times. Only to give my comments veracity, facts, etc. based on my training and experience.

Many can make and are welcomed to talking about the military. But if you served, you have different insights, points of view, etc. than someone who didn't.

Still, it seems the Peace President doesn't believe it & is…. hesitating.

No again since some don't like the POTUS they see everything as negative. We do not know what is really happening behind closed doors. As I posted on another thread here.

The news I just heard is the POTUS is going to probably give it another 2 weeks before the GBU-57s are deployed.

Every day the IDF continues to attrite Iran's assets.

The IDF has air superiority and destroyed almost all of Iran's air forces and ADA. It is possible the IDF could try another Entebbe type raid.

With the POTUS not giving an answer either way about the GBU-57s, etc. And not taking anything off the table. Who knows what the US & IDF have cooked up.

The Ayatollah still wants his nukes. And will not give in to the US. Even with a negotiation … The POTUS is rock hard about Iran gets No nukes.

The GBU-57s plus followed by IDF Commando raid(s) may be the only option(s).

The POTUS gave them another two weeks. Maybe the US is waiting while getting all its assets marshaled in the region ?

No matter what Iran cannot get nukes and this regime really needs to die/be gone. Not just for the Iranian people but for much of the world.

Again deception is part of warfare, again see Sun Tzu. You don't state in the open to the media what you are going to do. That is an OPSEC violation. Unless it is disinformation … sowing confusion among your enemies, etc. And again the wars started because of Biden's incompetence, fecklessness, feebleness, etc. Plus a very marginal staff with limited abilities and knowledge along with many in Congress being the same.

Regardless of what other POTUSs did previously. Again, our enemies saw the weaknesses of Biden, like many of us did. And they took advantage of it … And we suffered for it …

OVI +1 as always …

Gratten and Orchin read what I just posted from another thread here. May clear somethings up … or not …

Interestingly just heard from a Rabbi[no less!] on FOX saying similar to what I have said in my other posts. The POTUS saying he is taking a 2-week break from using the GBU-57s. The IDF may have told the POTUS, SecDef, JCS, etc. that they have a plan to e.g. insert a Bn or two of IDF Commandos and capture the hardened nuke site. Killing anyone who gets in their way, of course …

The POTUS is operating on a number of facts we don't know.

As I have said, the IDF continues to weaken Iran's military and leadership assets daily. Within two weeks or less Iran's forces will even be more have suffered even more attrition.

This is a very viable possibility IMO …

Trust me, OVI, I'm sincere all right.

Trafalgar Group:
see – Robert C. Cahaly (born October 16, 1969) is an American pollster who founded of the Trafalgar Group. He was a political consultant for Republican Party…..

Let me explain how academics operate. To obtain rigour in their findings, they consult a range of sources. Through this process, they try to approach the truth by examining motives, agendas, approaches etc.

Can I assume your academic level is not, shall we say, at the highest levels? So, I hope you can understand that if you obtain ALL your information from the one type of source, it's bound to have a statistical skew.

Thus, I take much/most/all of what you write as if it comes from an echo chamber. Thus, I read your link with a jaundiced eye & believe it is a partisan effort. Unreliable. Untrustworthy.

Ralph, how can you expect me to have any respect for a dictator in all but name who wears a funny hat?
Who has a vindicative streak & absolutely no empathy for anyone apart from himself? Who persecutes minorities & is, in fact, a criminal? He is a war monger who hypocritically preaches peace. Of whom the majority of world leaders have a contempt for?

He pretends to be a democratic choice but the majority of his people are opposed to his extremism. He is supported by a minority of brain-dead personality cultists & a fringe of religious extremists.

I'm writing about the Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, of course.
Who else would I be talking about?

AAK isn't exactly an ornament on the world stage but the rampaging militarists who wish a apocalyptic end to the man need to chill. Jeez, even the MAGA loyalists are wary:
link
Who knew I'd ever agree with MTG????

Ralph, seriously & no offence meant but your limited experience and age don't qualify you as any sort of expert. You are obviously totally enamoured of a single & usually unsupported view point – a rabbi on Fox, forsooth! You probably ARE patriotic. So what? You want me to accept every biassed cliche you offer? Please.

And I am very delighted my advice on your writing style has borne fruit. You are a bit more lucid, don't over use emojis and language is tighter. Don't bother to thank me. And I can move onto structure next if you want?

Donnie, Donnie, Donnie 🙄

From Rasmussen

"These media sources are slight to moderately conservative in bias. They often publish factual information that utilizes loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by appeals to emotion or stereotypes) to favor conservative causes. These sources are generally trustworthy for information but may require further investigation."

What poll is not at least somewhat biased. But 74% is pretty hard to fudge, even giving a 3 to 5 percentage error rate. Also they give the percentage of party affiliations they polled…. If one has the time from watching "The View", Madcow and "Colbert" to do so. Or for that matter, even cares for alternative views. 😉

Belittling a man's service to his country? That's pretty low. Legion has every right to be proud of his service record. He has kudos from me.

It must be terrible to have a man living 24/7 in your head free of charge. 😳 But Trump does manage to do that with those on socialist left.

So Donnie, dazzle us with your military service record and education. All your public service afterward.

I think the air is getting thin on top of your mountain. Come down and get some oxygen in you.

I sometimes wonder if you pretend to have poor comprehension skills but, no, I think you truly don't understand what people write.And not just what I write.

"They often publish factual information that utilizes loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by appeals to emotion or stereotypes) to favor conservative causes"….you DO understand that this means that these polls are purposely biassed, don't you? That you've just undermined your entire "argument"? That you've quoted THIS to support your stance – I simply can't have a Battle of Wits with you as you are unarmed.

And a mediocre ability to verbally abuse does not (for the nth time) represent anything like presenting a cogent argument.
NB your continued and extensive use of hopelessly cliched expressions don't help either. Language is a sharp tool not a bludgeon.

"What poll is not at least unbiased (?sic)". Wow. If you believe that, your world view is hopelessly warped.

Trump Derangement Syndrome? Maybe. You seem to have Trump Infatuation Syndrome. Perhaps we can go for treatment at the same clinic? But wait, my country gives me free universal medical care and yours….doesn't. Oh well.

Truly, I don't read your posts for knowledge. I read them for levity. "Socialist left" – now that is hilarious.

Donnie, no answer? I knew you wouldn't. Still trying to hide under that bridge. Must be why you enjoy fantasy wargames. By the way, do the Trolls always win in your games?

I read yours for the true absurdity of the left. You are a proper representative of what we have running around in our streets here currently. Ill-informed and fully indoctrinated. One might even say a possible disciple of Sal Lewinsky and his "rules for radicals".

Tell us, how do you REALLY feel about that "No Friend Country" currently fighting Iran and the people who live there. Yes I read your comment in a previous thread war before either you or Bill deleted it. 😉

Why is everything "two weeks"?!! Going back to the first term… What does it mean?

Orion, Legion is a guy with integrity, strong beliefs, extensive military service and knowledge. He can rant with the best of them but you don't have to agree or make it personal. 35th, also strong integrity, relentless right wing internet researcher, strong beliefs. Both honest in their opinions. We do not drink the same Kool-aid, sometimes get carried away. Argue them on the merits, stay with it. Leave out the insults. I personally thought Trump Derangement Syndrome referred to his supporters until I met these guys! 😵‍💫😵‍💫😁😁😁

35th! I don't want to see any of you tossed in the DH!

O join, apologies for autocorrect! Ochoin!!!@#$&

Ralph, how can you expect me to have any respect for a dictator in all but name who wears a funny hat?

Yeah you are ing down my back and telling me it's raining … again … You are trying to compare the POTUS with the Ayatollah. But must think I and others are too dense to see your play.

And yes one wears a funny hat. The other sometimes wear a very nice red baseball cap. An American classically inspired baseball hat. Many of us in the US do wear a Baseball hat … Baseball is one of the American inspired sports. We all played it at least in our youth, etc.

Ralph, seriously & no offence meant but your limited experience and age don't qualify you as any sort of expert. You are obviously totally enamoured of a single & usually unsupported view point – a rabbi on Fox, forsooth! You probably ARE patriotic. So what? You want me to accept every biassed cliche you offer? Please.

Really ? You are going to pull that 💩 again … still …

Unsupported by who ? You ?

As far as limited experience ? Compared to who ? You ?

And yes I have been told I am patriotic … So what ?

Cliche' ? You may want to look in the mirror …

I didn't say the Rabbi was correct. He was only stating a plausible scenario. Which again has some veracity. And makes
sense based on my "limited" experience …

Which BTW I can be considered an "expert" compared to you and some others when it comes to most military subjects. Especially in Infantry, combined arms ops, etc. Again, especially compared to you …

Orion, Legion is a guy with integrity, strong beliefs, extensive military service and knowledge. He can rant with the best of them but you don't have to agree or make it personal. 35th, also strong integrity, relentless right wing internet researcher, strong beliefs. Both honest in their opinions. We do not drink the same Kool-aid, sometimes get carried away. Argue them on the merits, stay with it. Leave out the insults.

Thank you Tort, you get it … I doubt Orchoin does or ever will.

Thanks Tort. 🙂

Subject: MAGA's Misguided Isolationists – WSJ


link

Regardless … again … many in the world do not what the #1 islamic terrorist sponsor to get Nukes. E.g. 80% of Iran's population not only don't support their anachronistic, 15th Century theocratic islamic death cult.

IMO and many others, we understand you can't expect to make any kind of deal, agreement, etc. with these throwbacks wedded to a Sharia type laws, etc. You can't trust them … other moslems/muslims can't trust them and are still at odds with each other. Again primarily over religion, ethic and tribal affiliations.

However as always when dealing militant islam, it is no so black & white. Many shades of gray. There are protests[riots?] in moslem nations. E.g. Lebanon, Iraq, and a few other islamic nations still support the Ayatollah and that regime, are anti-Israel and anti-US[the great Satan]. Whether those nations' Gov't support the Ayatollah et al is still a little gray in some cases.

As my friend who served in Iraq and Mid East who wrote in his book, "In Strange Company". They would always say, "Nothing is easy in the Middle East" … We see that almost every day …

Again no nukes for Iran and their theocratic gov't have to be removed/replaced by the 80% of Iran's population. Who will put their own Gov't in power. Which almost assuredly would not be an islamic terrorist regime.

The US does not nation build and has [hopefully] learned from its past.

The Iranians want to (re)make their nation and be part of the modern world. As long as their fanatical islamist gov't is on power/alive. This can't happen. These militant islamists still what to kill destroy Israel. And if they could/would nuke both Israel and the US. They have to go …

But it is the Free Iranian's [and Israel's] war, they have to and want to do it themselves. With what appears some sort of support from the IDF/Mossad. Who are already on the ground, anyway. If the US has to do may have to use some GBU-57s to help the IDF finish the job.

In the meantime, the IDF has to continue their air campaign, with some Free Iranian support to attrite Iran's military assets and leadership. To "win" this war … and not leave another one left to fight a few years later.

Already the Ayatollah, etc. are talking about when the war is over. They will start mass executions of their population that supported the IDF, etc. Of course if they are all dead and gone, the war is over. With a populous choosing its own gov't. That would be the best result …

YEAH !!!!! GET SOME !!!!!!

The B-2s and GBU-57s cometh !

Sun Tzu – The Art of War [paraphrase] "All war is a matter of deception." … I think I have said that before … It wasn't my idea but that is the way were trained.

Many people in DC, in the media, even some here. They just could not understand why the POTUS would change what he had said before. E.g. "I'll make a decision in under two weeks."

E.g. Deception … OPSEC …

This OPLAN has probably been worked out a week or two ago.

This is a game changer. There is still work to do. But the Iranians that hate their islamist leaders, IRGC, etc. The IDF and the US opened a up a big hole.

Finish it …

Hell just can to Breakfast Ayatollah, IRGC, etc. …

I'm afraid it was an obvious deception. I was expecting the attack to come soon after he mentioned "two weeks". I doubt that the Iranians were fooled either.

Although it was the aircraft sent to Guam that mainly led me to believe the attack was imminent. What was that, a double bluff ?

Trump's words were as believable as Putin's "training mission" on the Ukrainian border.

Again Deception and OPSEC …

While I don't generally think much of Trump as a commander, nor Gabbard or Hesgeth, he did a good job in the moment here in making a decision promptly and doing something. He was awkward with the deception. The actual results are hopefully good.

But now he is starting to hint at regime change. There are 90 million people in Iran, more than 2X the size of Texas with some rugged terrain. In the Middle East. Too many booby traps on many levels.

True Tort,

Regime change is what pulled us into the Iraq and Afghan wars. Better to leave that alone unless the people of Iran rise up and throw the leadership out.

But now he is starting to hint at regime change. There are 90 million people in Iran, more than 2X the size of Texas with some rugged terrain. In the Middle East. Too many booby traps on many levels.

Yes, but everything I'm reading indicates Trump's not interested in boots on the ground, so no nation-building commitment like Iraq and Afghanistan.