"Spider’s Web drone strike burns over 40 Russian warplanes" Topic

Prince Albert…far more than we know about, and Elon is not happy. I would be glad to just have it all go away. It will change no minds.

SBminisguy says the same thing, that if the rapist gets slapped on the ear and needs a few moments to breathe to continue raping, then it is a big victory for the raped person and he must humbly endure the rape in the future.

Nope, that's all you. I'm just telling you reality, and you're angry about that and don't want to hear it. I've been very clear that:

1) Putin is at fault. He started this war despite anybody else's actions. He is to blame, and it was wrong.

2) Peace was possible in 2022. It's been proven by link and by source that Putin's blitz failed and by March 2022 he wanted out before it became an embarrassment. There were peace talks brokered by Israel and Turkey in which Russia would be able to declare victory and go home, and Ukraine would get the Russian's out at the primary price of no NATO membership.

3) NATO/Biden/EU KILLED the peace deal. Even Boris Johnson admits now they are fighting a proxy war against Russia by using Ukraine to do the deed.

4) The Putin Coup Failed. Why kill the peace deal? I can only speculate as to why. I suspect, though, that the EU/NATO/Biden goal was to destabilize Russia and topple Putin, replacing him with a Pro-Globalist/EU leader. Remember they pushed Ukraine to launch a major attack in June 2023 that coincided with the Wagner Coup. Articles I have read indicate that there was coordination between Prigozhin, Ukraine, US/NATO and as Ukraine made advances that destabilized the front with Russia, the Wagner Group would launch a coup with allied generals and commanders. The poorly resourced and executed Ukraine offensive bogged down almost immediately, the anticipated disruption did not happen, and when Prigozhin called for his allies to act -- most refused. So Prigozhin launched his own coup calling on "patriots: to join him, nobody did. The end result was Prigozhin surrendered and then was killed later, and Putin ended up STRONGER THAN BEFORE! The Prigozhin coup flushed out Putin's regime enemies and there was a wave of military and civil leadership arrests, exiles, defenestration and executions.

The CIA/NATO/Ukraine coup attempt was a total failure.

5). Inertia and Hope as a Strategy. With their big plan crashed and burned, the CIA/NATO/EU/Biden had NO STRATEGY other than to keep the war going and hope a miracle happened. They could certainly NOT admit failure and seek a just peace with Russia. So they kept sending enough cash and weapons to keep the pot boiling, hoping at some point Russia would finally collapse (as all their analysts like Peter Zeihan kept saying), or Putin would just die, or something.

6). Trump Upsets the Game. Trump came into office wanting to end the war and get a peace deal in place. If this happened it would mean all the hundreds of billions of $$$ was spent on nothing, AND the GRIFT WOULD STOP! Remember when Zelensky said he things Ukraine got maybe 1/3rd of the aid send -- so where did the rest go? Real peace would mean these masters of the universe in CIA/Biden/NATO/EU were failures, and Trump was right -- and they certainly can't have that!

7. Escalation to Stop the Peace. The masters of the universe in CIA/Biden/NATO/EU have worked tirelessly to prevent peace and even to ESCALATE the war and FORCE TRUMP to directly commit to kinetic war against Russia. These recent highly provocative Ukrainian attacks on Russian Strategic Bombers, on passenger trains and on the Kerch Bridge were calculated to provoke a hasty Russian response that NATO/EU would use to invoke Article 5 AND START WORLD WAR 3! All to avoid the blame and pain of failure.

8. There is no conventional military path to peace for Ukraine. Russia is winning. It is conducting a slow grinding war of attrition that Ukraine cannot win. Ukraine's position is getting worse by the month. Mobilization has stalled. Recruitment is drying up. The average front-line soldier is pushing 45. Desertion and draft-dodging are spreading. Western aid is still coming in, but it's mismatched to Ukraine's real needs. You can send all the shells and drones you want, but you can't create infantry out of thin air—and that's what Ukraine lacks: manpower, not morale or equipment.

Meanwhile, Russia's army has changed. It's not the disorganized mess that invaded in 2022. It's absorbed its losses, adapted, and returned to its old playbook: grinding attrition with massed firepower and deep manpower reserves. Russia doesn't need a flashy blitz; it just needs to grind Ukraine down and outlast Western resolve. And that's exactly what it's doing.

9. Peace or Collapse. We have a binary choice. Ukraine either gets a peace deal over which it has SOME control and say via the Trump/Rubio peace talks, or it will have peace DICTATED to it by Russia after Ukraine finally grinds down to a halt.

And that's what it is. I'm not pro-Russia, though I am generally ANTI-STUPIDITY and Pro-Peace> And for peace, ya get there by various means. Sometimes you get peace by defeating your enemy, sometimes you get peace by accepting a raw deal.

Reality is reality, it cares nothing for your feelz.

"1) Putin is at fault."
Yes, rapist started to rape.

"2) Peace was possible in 2022."
Yes, the rapist gets slapped on the ear and needs a few moments to breathe to continue raping.

"3) NATO/Biden/EU KILLED the peace deal."
The Russian "peace deal" was the same unacceptable proposal to Ukraines surrender as now and now it was rightfully rejected without any Biden.

So all I said is right.

When Trump will actually work for peace instead of ecouraging Putin to continue the war? Where are the secondary sanctions and the unlimited supply of military equipment to Ukraine to quickly end the war by grinding muscovites even more effectively?

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink…

"Sometimes you get peace by defeating your enemy, sometimes you get peace by accepting a raw deal."

Sometimes you get long lasting peace by making your surrender impossible for enemy, sometimes you get temporary peace by surrender as you suggest.
This is more correct.

Do you still understand that the Russian Nazis do not want any peace until their defeat is inevitable, and even then they demand the surrender of their victims?
And they will only agree to an armistice if they cannot prepare for the next aggression without it.

Sho Boki, your product is rotten. With each new day it becomes more and more difficult to sell)))

My product is tin soldiers.
You don't like my miniatures?
Look, SBminisguy even named himself as Sho Boki miniatures guy.. ;-)

sometimes you get temporary peace by surrender as you suggest.
This is more correct

Except in this case there would be a South Korea style DMZ and reconstruction and reconstitution making another war less likely, and allow Ukraine to rebuild

Sho Boki, your miniatures are beautiful. But I'm not talking about them)))

SBminisguy, Zelensky can't stop. Because then his "pet" Nazis will kill him. And he can't stop them – they already have an entire army corps.

2019. The future commander of "Azov" receives an award from Zelensky and does not salute him… The President of the country he serves. The Commander-in-Chief. This is the real attitude towards him in the "SS troops". They tolerate him. For now…

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And this is the inauguration of President Zelensky. 2019. The head of the Security Service of Ukraine and the commander of the Special Operations Forces of the Armed Forces of Ukraine refuse to greet the new president of Ukraine with a military salute. Then they resign.

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You have already forgotten:

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For some reason, you always step on the same rake… You nurture jihadists to fight against your enemies. Now – Nazis. But the monster you nurture always turns against you…

An interesting question on whether NATO strategic assets would be required to plan such an attack.
Let's take the US strategic bombers and have a look.

How difficult is it to know where they are based. Not too difficult at all as it turns out. Some simple searching reveals there were 20 B2s. One was destroyed. Some are occasionally deployed overseas. Normally 12 are active with others in varying degrees of maintenance and over-haul. A simple internet search reveals they are based at Whiteman AFB MI. How do I know this is not misinformation? Well, when I visited a customer near the AFB, I saw a B2 landing at Whiteman.

The layout of the airbase is also easy to find. Admittedly all planes have been removed from these images. However, the airbase is only 8.7 sq miles and all runways, taxi ramps and areas that planes can be deployed are clearly visible and are limited. There are also aircraft covers clearly visible. There are only so many areas that the B2s can be and they are surprisingly few.

This still leads us to the question of where are the planes? Well a simple look at the AFB home page shows plane locations that can be clearly tied to the overhead images. Could it be misinformation, yes. But I doubt it. Also, let's remember that the air base has a very long perimeter and is very flat. There are things that can be seen.

This still doesn't account for simple espionage. Well within the capability if the Ukrainian forces who have been planning this operation for 18 months. This could be Human Intelligence, SIGINT or probing drones (something that may be going on in many countries).

I suspect the Ukrainians had a good idea where many of the planes were without NATO providing satellite data.
Even if they didn't, they had many drones attacking the airbase. Knowing that they are only a few areas for the planes, a first wave of FPV drones could provide targets for a second wave. Not too difficult and very few areas to search You don't have to find every bomber, just enough to make the attack successful.

Now as for base defense against drones. SIGINT is easy to identify jammers, and the electronic measures. The SIGINT is easy to do and would be passive. Also a few probing drones flights mascarading as hobby enthusiast drones over the preceding months might not raise too much alarm.

Would the attack have been easier with NATO assets, undoubtedly yes. However, the Ukrainians have been nothing if not resourceful. I am more than convinced that they could plan and execute the attack themselves.

We're a High Trust Open Society, we are not Russia. It is easy to get info on out stuff, easy to find since we also have *relative* transparency in government and local military bases are important to politicians. I don't think you can log into the Russian military's website and get a download on this kind of stuff.

So no luck using public sources. Could they have bought commercial satellite imagery? Probably -- but they'd need to know where to look first. Since they can't look it up on a website like you can with USAF bases, that means OTHER technical means or HUMINT.

Not SIGINT because we know the attack vehicles were basically converted mobile home trucks or "office trailers" that were really bare bones. Their innocuous nature was their only protection, a simple traffic stop would have blown the whole op.

To date ALL most significant drone strikes and deep strikes have been guided by US or NATO intel and guidance support. The US was not involved, this leaves only NATO.

But, you see it your way, I see it my way. And I see Ukraine as a meat puppet dancing to the tune of NATO and the EU, all the way to the precipice of utter destruction.

"And I see Ukraine as a meat puppet dancing to the tune of NATO and the EU, all the way to the precipice of utter destruction."

This is Russian viewpoint.

We see that Ukraine fight for their lives and existence as reborn nation.
Also Ukraine is fighting for the freedom of all of us, and also so that Bminisguy is not forced to send his boys to die in this fight.

And we see that Trump don't help Ukraine at all.
Instead, he continues to support and justify the terrorist aggressor.

SBm +1

The Bucha massacre happened at the time there was an effort to find a peace deal. Check the dates and that showed there was no way to make peace with Putin.

The South Korea DMZ works because the US stands behind it, is anyone saying that a similar situation in Ukraine is a goal with the US likewise standing behind it?
The US forces were in South Korea because they were already there as the UN force, is anyone suggesting the US deploy, fight and establish an area for a similar DMZ as that is what it would take?

There was no way that I was suggesting SIGINT be done at the time of the attack. I thought it was obvious that I was talking about attack prep.
Also, really it is not that difficult to find the location of airbases with Russian strategic assets. I could easily give you a list of the locations of T.22s, T.95s A50s etc. It really isn't that hard. Also given the list of those airbases, it is really quite simple to get both satellite and normal photos. Given 20 minutes I can get the bare bones of the information that I would need to start an 18 months strategic intelligence campaign to plan an attack.

I did much the same sort of thing when planning a game between China and the IJN for a fight over the Senkaku islands.
I am not saying that other countries didn't provide information, I am just saying that it is not necessarily required.
Also in one of the previous comments you suggested that countries couldn't provide information as the assets used were NATO assets and the US had some sort of Veto on the use of the assets.
The assets of individual countries are theirs to use as they see fit,

We see that Ukraine fight for their lives and existence as reborn nation.
Also Ukraine is fighting for the freedom of all of us, and also so that Bminisguy is not forced to send his boys to die in this fight.

Except UKRAINE ALREADY WON! They beat Putin in 2022, they secured their existence as a reborn nation, and then as now they were never going to regain all the territory they lost over the past 13 years -- but the longer they continue this pointless war of attrition the higher the chance they will collapse and LOSE IT ALL! So I don't know why you want to hand Putin total victory?

The Bucha massacre happened at the time there was an effort to find a peace deal. Check the dates and that showed there was no way to make peace with Putin.

That was the excuse as to why Ukraine killed the deal. The reality is, absent the interference by Biden/NATO/EU, the peace deal would have gone through.

Also, really it is not that difficult to find the location of airbases with Russian strategic assets. I could easily give you a list of the locations of T.22s, T.95s A50s etc. It really isn't that hard.

OK, do that please -- love to see what you can find.

"They beat Putin in 2022, they secured their existence as a reborn nation"

Nothing is changed, except the Ukraine is much stronger now and beats Putin in his own hole. Only Trump and you want to save Putin from complete collapse and give him a total victory as a gift.

We now have a fully functioning DMZ between Ukraine and the aggressor, and we must do everything we can to help Ukraine maintain it until Putin's Nazi regime collapses. This opportunity to stop the war-mongering Nazis without starting a world war comes only once in a lifetime.

OK, do that please -- love to see what you can find.

I am fairly sure that the Ukrainian intelligence services can use Wikipedia. I'm also sure they can follow the links.

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OK, maybe the information is more available than I think, but then how do they prioritize their attacks? Wiki's not going to be up to date enough to send someone thousands of kilometers on the chance it's up today. If you look at the Wiki history, looks like updates are made by contributors every 3-5 months.

This cunning Ukrainian drone attack should be more of a wake-up call to the US, NATO, etc. Here is a scenario that I hope the Pentagon, etc. has considered. For quite some time the PRC/CCP has been buying up land near US military installations, probably some infrastructure, etc.

What would stop the thousands of Chinese that have crossed into the US illegally in the past four years of gov't sanctioned open borders. From sneaking drones near-by and doing the same to the US a target(s) as the Ukrainian Forces did to the Russians.

Thousands of military age primarily males from the PRC/CCP. Crossed into the US. Most of with we know little to nothing about. Or the thousands of Chinese that the CCP has paid for to go to US universities. Which the academic intellectuals at those school love. To stop this would be considered racist as they have often said.

However, many if not most of the Chinese students are spies or agents for the CCP. And they try to get as much information as they can to send back to the CCP. Just recently a couple of those Chicom students at a university was caught smuggling some toxin that will kill US crops.

What will it take to wake the far-left, liberal, woke progressive, etc. to see this is all a threat.

E.g. IIRC, the AZ Gov(D) just stopped a law in AZ to not allow the Chicoms from buying AZ land. Guess didn't want to look racist, and not support the Dem's narrative, agenda, etc. She must have missed what Ukrainian's drones did to Russian airfields etc.

Legion +1

This was also brought up on the thread related to unidentified drones in the U.S. as well.

What will it take to wake the far-left, liberal, woke progressive, etc. to see this is all a threat.

Only when THEY are personally affected -- and even then many will remain faithful to their religion and continue to reject reality,

Legion 4, the problem is that you don't have to live near the base to attack it. It could be any trailer, the trunk of a car (let's say ten cars), a civilian plane or helicopter, a group of pedestrians with backpacks… Anything. The drivers of the trucks from which the attack in Russia was carried out did not know that drones with explosives were hidden in their trucks, under a false ceiling.
Why would the Chinese live near the base if they could pay any gang to deliver their cargo? The drone does not need to be imported into the country. It is enough to buy it on the spot and reprogram and retrofit it. It does not even require a lot of money or the efforts of rare specialists…
I think we will soon see the use of such drones in criminal showdowns and bank robberies)))

By the way, today in our city chat people complained about a drone that looked into residents' windows at night… Some pervert used a drone to satisfy his vices… This is the new everyday life.

It is interesting that my refutation of the inaccessibility of information about Russian aircraft deployment has become the trigger for more US paranoia.

The fact remains that the information is accessible, and it is very likely that Ukraine's intelligence services used the information in the public domain to target the drone attacks.

It is also a distinct possibility that the DIU has more resources at its disposal than an individual Googling 'Russian airforce bases'.

Perun, who have made many interesting YouTubevideos have a good one about this strike. Well worth watching.

It is interesting that my refutation of the inaccessibility of information about Russian aircraft deployment has become the trigger for more US paranoia.

It's an eye opener -- we are High Trust society, so if it's possible to pull this off in a highly controlled society, how much easier in the US where in some cases you can drive by an AFB on a main road and see USAF aircraft in plain view?

Perun had demolished false Russian narrative about "New Start non-shelters policy":
YouTube link (at 33 minute)

Ukraine deliberately not attacked Tu-160 in Operation Spider Web (we have footage UA drones avoiding Tu-160) because Russia previously had not used Tu-160 in the war (UA wanted to keep detering Russian from using Tu-160 at war and to placate USA).

However, that now changed and Russia in most recent attacks used two Tu-160 bombers (both were releasing Kh-101 cruise missiles). It means that in the future Ukraine will attack also Tu-160s. Volenti non fit iniuria. Putin in rage de facto gave Ukraine permission to attack Tu-160s. :D Russia can say goodbye to working strategic bombers.

Russia was only able to deploy five Tu-95MS and two Tu-160 aircraft for the strike.

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After Operation Spider Web maximum Russian capability of strategic bombers was reduced by 2/3!

Russia do not bombard cities

Only one example of so many:

The Kherson Regional Administration building was bombed twice within 15 minutes. The 15 minute delay in the second attack was likely an attempt to kill emergency workers. Artillery and drone attacks followed, damaging a post office warehouse, supermarket and residential buildings.

It's an eye opener -- we are High Trust society, so if it's possible to pull this off in a highly controlled society, how much easier in the US where in some cases you can drive by an AFB on a main road and see USAF aircraft in plain view?

So you concede that it was quite possible for Ukraine to have managed both the intelligence and the attacks on their own, without assistance from NATO or the perfidious Europeans?

Would you also be willing to acknowledge that only one NATO member has invoked Article 5?

Yep, looks like they could have planned this themselves though I still think it's more likely NATO helped as they have helped with other attacks.

Sho Boki +1

OVI +1

SBm +1

Legion 4, the problem is that you don't have to live near the base to attack it.

Really !?!? Don't you think I and everybody else understands that ?!?!? If you ever had to set up a defense or pull security. You try to mitigate as many threats as you can. So, to limit or eliminate a short-range drone attack or even surveillance or any sort is just some less things you have to be have to be concerned with.

I and many others here do have a working idea of how many different ways to attack, defend, surveil, etc. anything or anyone. FWIW it used to be my career/job …

The South Korea DMZ works because the US stands behind it,

E.g. I had two tours with a US Mech unit in 2ID on the ROK DMZ, '84-'85.

Before that had 3 deployments with the 101 in Panama, the CZ, '80-'83. To add to the Canal Zone Def Force … Do you know how many ways you could shut down the CZ even back then. I'm old but I do remember most of that …

Yeah … I'm old I get testy sometimes …

It is interesting that my refutation of the inaccessibility of information about Russian aircraft deployment has become the trigger for more US paranoia.

Well it is not like this is nothing new. We/NATO have been playing cat & mouse with Russia and the CCP since after WWII. As the Russians have Nukes and have threated to use them more than once. Paranoia ? I think not … it is a good policy to be prepared. As we see in e.g. Pearl Harbor, lack of prep causes loss.

And like all humans we do or should have survival instincts. E.g. if at the Y and I see a female in a hijab with a backpack or gym bag. Based on what we have seen previously now for decades, initially survival instincts should kick in. But generally, you know that after couple of seconds. That the threat is at a very low probability …

Umpapa, Russia has never used more than six strategic bombers to attack targets in Ukraine at the same time. Tu-160s were used for attacks in 2022 but have not been used since.
I think, simply because their resource is protected for a completely different war))) but they can raise twice as many missiles than other bombers. The Russians decided to send special hello to Zelensky after the attack of his saboteurs))) And at the same time train pilots for real purposes with real Western air defense.

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At the same time, Ukraine already attacked Russian Tu-160s at the airbase in the city of Engels in 2022.

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Nothing new… The show goes on. It's going to be a long winter.

And before that they attacked the Russian radars on the notification of the sufferers of ballistic missiles … It's just Zelensky to seek that the war grew into a world war …

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