Help support TMP


"FoW Pacific- Command Card for Philippines and Bataan?" Topic


8 Posts

All members in good standing are free to post here. Opinions expressed here are solely those of the posters, and have not been cleared with nor are they endorsed by The Miniatures Page.

Please don't make fun of others' membernames.

For more information, see the TMP FAQ.


Back to the 15mm WWII Message Board

Back to the Flames of War Message Board


Areas of Interest

World War One
World War Two on the Land
Modern

Featured Hobby News Article


Featured Recent Link


Top-Rated Ruleset


Featured Profile Article

ISIS in the Year 2066

What if you want to game something too controversial or distasteful to put on the tabletop?


Current Poll


Featured Movie Review


284 hits since 15 May 2025
©1994-2025 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

Tgunner15 May 2025 11:58 a.m. PST

I just got my book today and fed in the card to unlock the lists. It's interesting! It looks like you will finally get the chance to try out some early US Army actions in the Philippines with Flames of War.

Like the other Flames products you get the basic lists in the book and you can expand on them, or even get whole new formations, through the command cards. There are a few of these cards that unlock some of the units in the Philippines during the 1941-1942 campaign. You do get them free with the rulebook, but only on-line through the army builder, so no actual physical cards. The added bonus is that you get all of the book's formations too and since they've gone up to $3 USD a pop… that's a nice bonus indeed.

Anyway, you actual have a start here if you want to do early Pacific War US. First off is the oddly titled US Army Philippine Rifle Company. No, they AREN'T US Army. They are Philippine Army guys. A full platoon is 10 stands with one being the command stand. They are are with P17 rifles (1917 Enfields- rifle teams with slow firing) are you can get them as a HUGE discount: 50% off the normal US Army troops. Those guys are pretty much reprints from the Fighting First, but the PA lose the Determined trait and become Reluctant. Yeah, Reluctant Green is an evil blind. At least they aren't reckless.

Another card is one that allows you to downgrade US Army infantry to Springfields. Useful if you're doing US Navy or Army Air Force ad hoc infantry units. If you're doing the 31st or Philippine Scouts you're better off keeping the regular Rifle Platoon. I'd argue that the Philippine Scouts should have been at least Confident Trained, but whatever.

There is a card for fielding 26th Philippine Scouts Cavalry. It downgrades/sidegrades (?) the Dismounted Cavalry Recon Patrol from Carbines to Rifles (Slow firing). You also lose the M1919 and the 60mm mortar (they did have the M1919 and mortars, but no ammo for the tubes). You do get to buy them for +2 points, so +2 to get 3 more rifle stands. The Rifles downgrade is inaccurate as the Scouts had the M1 Garand rather than the Springfield. I guess you could argue that without the BAR they have to pick-up the slow firing trait.

A surprise entry is the Bren Carriers. For a few points you can get either a 3 or 5 carrier platoon with ROF 3 MMGs. That's a nice and fluffy touch.

Another nice add is the M1918 155mm gun battery option! Now you can field heavy guns for the US Army and the 155 was heavily used in the Philippines.

There is also the Makin M3 Medium option. There weren't any M3 Mediums available during the Philippine Campaign, but two battalions were slated to go there in early 1942. So… an option for a what if.

A big disappointment- No card for the M3 SPM for the US Army. They were FIRST FIELDED by the US Army in the Philippines, but no, there is no command card to pull up the provisional anti-tank group. Go figure.

Another- no 75mm artillery pieces for the USAFFE. You COULD use the US Army 25lbr card to tone down the 105mm though. Not the best solution, but do able.

An oddball- the US tank battalion in the book is the 193rd and BF has them equipped with the T30 assault gun. I've done a lot of reading and don't recall ever reading about T30s being in the Philippines. I could be wrong, but the books I have, Bataan Our Last Ditch and the US Army's own official history, both only talk about M3 SPM. Honestly the only real difference there is that the M3 has an AT9 vs. the AT6 of the T30. The T30 is more flexible in that it can bombard and has smoke which are both useful things. An AT of 6 is quite good against most Japanese tanks with maybe it struggling some against the Type 97's FA3.

So it's a mixed bag, but hey, at least it's there! And with some creative smudging you can build MOST units that were there. So, thumbs up overall.

Miniature wise- most of your vehicles are there via BattleFront. Your troops for now seem to be Eureka models as they have the Wake Island Marines who can stand in for US Army, Philippine Scouts with M1s and horses, M1917 HMGs, Mortars, gun crews, and other oddball stuff. Eureka also offers Philippine Army soldiers with rifles and a mix of Navy guys toting rifles and SMGs. You can blend them and build PA units, Scouts, USA Infantry (31st), 26th Cav (they have M1911 pistols to go with the Gerands), and even a Boys ATR.

Tgunner15 May 2025 1:25 p.m. PST

PS: I just found a US Army Tropic Thunder Experienced Command Card that does buffs US infantry up to Trained. So that bumps up their To Hit to 4+ and gives them Skill 4+. It does raise their cost up by 33%, but that would put them more in line with the Philippine Scouts in the 45th, 57th, and the 43th Regiments.

panzerCDR16 May 2025 10:12 a.m. PST

Very interesting to read this. Thanks for figuring this out for an interesting part of the Pacific War.

Col Piron16 May 2025 12:36 p.m. PST

A big disappointment- No card for the M3 SPM for the US Army. They were FIRST FIELDED by the US Army in the Philippines, but no, there is no command card to pull up the provisional anti-tank group. Go figure.

Usually if BF don't make a model for something in V4 , it doesn't get put in the lists

Tgunner17 May 2025 11:27 a.m. PST

@Col Piron- The M3 SPM is in the new book, but only for the Marines. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

They are selling them in two vehicle blisters too. They will probably go for sale on the site soonish.

Tgunner21 May 2025 6:30 a.m. PST

I've had few days looking over things and have some ideas on how to tweak the system to get closer to what was on Bataan.

31st Infantry- US Rifle Company as is, but you really should drop the Bazookas. I mean, you are entitled to them, but they were never in the '41-'42 Campaign. A semi-fair exchange would be to replace it with the M1919s which WERE in the Philippines. In other books the bazooka is +1 per team, so switching them out is reasonable. They did have the Garand so the basic gun line is fine. The 31st was stripped of experienced officers and NCOs and had them replaced by draftees to the tune of a company being 25-33% new guys, so the Confident/Green is fair.

45th, 43rd, and 57th Infantry (PS)- As above, but I don't think the Confident/Green mix is accurate for them. They were stripped too like the 31st, but their replacements were well vetted, and very well trained. These units were excellent ones and kept their edge throughout the campaign. I would say give them the Tropic Thunder Experienced card. That gives them Confident/Trained plus the 4+ to hit number. That's very respectful and shows them to be the elite that they were. Remember to switch out the bazookas for M1919s. They did have the 37mm anti-tank gun, but only like 9 were present in the whole of USAFFE with 3 per Philippine Scout and US Army infantry regiment.

BTW- no T30s were in the Philippines, so they are a real no-go.

26th Cav- This is a head scratchier. They want you to do the dismounted cavalry platoon with the Springfield option. Yeah, no. They were fully equipped with the Garand, but oddly enough no BARs. You could use the stats presented as all of those weapons, barring the carbine, were in the Philippines.. however the 60mm mortars were only in the infantry regiments and no ammo was ever sent for them! Also the Confident Green just doesn't wash with them. I'd suggest just fielding them as 8 stand Rifle Company platoons with the Tropic Thunder Experienced card to get their stats up to where they should be. The downside is that you get the quality without the ability to spearhead. However as the campaign went on they were more often than not used as elite infantry. Flames of War gives, Flames of War takes away. Also feel free to have Bren Carriers with these guys as the regiment eventually dismounted and used the carriers that the US picked up from a shipment that never made it to Canadian battalions in Hong Kong.

Philippine Army- No changes there. This card is correct as it stands. If you want to show them as more experienced then build them as US Rifle Company and give them the Springfield card.

Other US Army ersatz infantry (Hq, chemical, USAAF, Bridgit's Naval Battalion)- like the Philippine Army. You could argue it out if they were more or less willing to fight. I'd argue that Confident/Green with Springfields works fine.

4th US Marines- They really didn't see a whole lot of action in the campaign. They were Shanghaied to be MacArthur's pretorian guard, so they spent most of the campaign side-lined- much to their chagrin. However a number of Marines 'excused' themselves and got stuck in where they could. That was mainly during the Battle of the Points, but a fair few volunteered for anti-sniping work with the 57th during their opening action. A few were killed or wounded causing command to drag them out of action. I would argue that the US Marines Naval Construction Company is more accurate for them. This unit was a mixed bag that never got to train together in full on force-on-force actions. The Springfields are accurate, but they also had plenty of Thompson smgs and BARs too! They never had the M1919s, but they had Lewis Guns and plenty of M1917s. However I could see an argument for the regular Marine Rifle Company, but with tweaks to their weapons because they did have a lot of automatic weaponry, but didn't have access to all of the toys in the book. Maybe not enough to be rifle/mg teams, but perhaps enough to avoid the slow firing penality. They also had quite a number of M1916 37mm infantry guns, but no 37mm anti-tank guns. They also had 81mm mortars, like the Army, but they had more of the proper ammomunition for it. In fact, a weapons platoon with M1917s and 81mm mortars were sent from the Rock to support the Navy Battalion during the Battle of the Points.

Artillery- Do the 105mm with the 25lbr downgrade. It's not spot on, but it's close enough to represent the 75mm guns that were the mainstay of USAFFE's artillery park. Also take the 155 up-grade to get the French 155's that saw a lot of service in the campaign (mostly 155mm GPF).

SPMs- Steal them from the Marines. I would argue that their motivation should be Confident, but they did do some rather fearless things, so why not?

M3 Scouts- I don't remember seeing anything about them. The 26th did have M1 Scout Cars, but they are rather different vehicles. I don't think they ever formed units like this for Philippine service.

M3 Lights- Use them as is, but without the T30s and M4 81mm tracks. However they did have some of the Bren Carriers to use as scouts. Not a great replacement, but you take what you can get. I will point out that US Army doctrine, if you can call it that, was pretty… terrible. Worse still, USAFFE and its various commands were pretty horrible about armor use. Frequently someone would call for armor support only to be 'noped' by the 'experts' because of terrain, anti-tank weapons, etc. Also, frequently tanks could find themselves in the same area as other units, but not do anything to support them. The 26th had the wonderful experience of watching the tankers roll out and then immediately coming under Japanese tank attack. Yeah, with friends like that. They were generally used in penny packets of individual platoons or even just sections. Full company actions by the tanks was very rare. To be authentic you shouldn't field more than a platoon of the things for most actions, with the three tank 'platoon' not being uncommon.

Well there you go. Some notes on how to fool around with the US lists in The Pacific to get a more USAFFE in the Philippines style of army. Feel free to post your own ideas and tell this thread what you think.

Col Piron22 May 2025 4:06 a.m. PST

@Tgunner

The M3 SPM is in the new book, but only for the Marines

The odd then if they are actually making them .
Its not the first time BF have done this though , in the first 2 LW German books the Pz II Ausf L formation wasn't included , even though the 4.PD in the east and the 9. PD in the west used them and BF makes a model for it . It finally came out as a command card , with the German Berlin book . frown

Tgunner22 May 2025 3:45 p.m. PST

@Col Piron

I just found out from the BattleFront guys- it was an oversight.

"Hi Randall,

Thanks for your email! Love the enthusiasm and I've shared it with the staff here in the office.

I asked this question with one of our designers, Wayne and he has answered your questions below:

Hi! As you say the M1 Garand rifle armed options can easily be taken by just taking the options straight out of the book without the need for the Command Card.

You are right about the M3 75mm GMC (I do believe M3 75mm SPM is the Marine only designation), I missed that. It seems it was still being called a T12 back in 1941. I will look at maybe doing an article on the website about fielding it.

I hope this has satisfied your curiosity :)

Cheers
Kevin
Battlefront"

Sorry - only verified members can post on the forums.