"23rd Royal Welsh Fusiliers with no facing colors on jackets?" Topic

I'm currently painting up the 23rd Regiment of Foot.

I'm using Perry Metals, specifically the 23rd Foot command pack in roundabouts and slouch hats, and two packs of British infantry advancing, also in roundabouts and slouch hats. 18 models total.

I noticed that for one of Perry's 23rd Foot pack, the "Firing Line" pack, the painter painted up a sample of the group of soldiers in their red roundabouts, and they kept them totally plain, no blue on the cuffs or on the collars.

And then I see them painted up like this, the painter utilizing the Perry plastics cut-down coats that retain all lapels, cuffs, and collars. Also noted is that this painter decided to keep the white trim around the brim of the hats.

In the command pack I have, some of the models appear to have cuffs sculpted onto them, but others don't.

In the marching packs I have, the soldiers do not seem to have cuffs or collars sculpted on them. the roundabouts are totally plain.

So my question is, is there historical evidence for the 23rd Foot wearing plain red roundabouts with no blue facing colors? Obviously the roundabouts have no lapels, they are single breasted jackets with a single row of buttons.

But I found the paint job of plain red with no facing colors and no cuffs sculpted on them to be curious.

Insights or info? Thanks in advance!

There seems to be a considerable degree of speculation and extrapolation regarding campaign uniforms based on adapted hats waistcoats. Consequwently, unless you are painting figures from units specifically recorded in image or word (e.g certain companies in the 2nd Light Infantry in 1777) provided your happy with your choice, I'd say you have a fair amount of flexibility in how you depict your figures.

Is there evidence that the 23rd actually wore waistcoats and cut down hats, or is it an assumption? If they did, were sleeves taken from the regulation coat or made anew, in which case the cuffs might well be simpler. Certainly, even the white feathers of the 23rd fusiliers date to an inspection report from the final period of the AWI war; a measure prompted by their regulation fusilier caps being unavailable.

FWIW, it sees a reasonable assumption that, if materially feasible, a royal regiment might do its best to display blue facings but then again….

Many thanks 42flanker, that is very helpful!

I looked around the internet and came across a modern print of a campaign uniform for the 23rd regiment of foot showing a beat-up uniform coat with blue lapels and a pimp hat with white border and plume. It looks to be a Troiani print, but there is no attribution or description with the Pintrest image. I identify it as the 23rd because it came up in response to my search for 23rd campaign uniform during the American Revolution. I wish I had the technical know-how to copy and paste the image here. It can be found at (minus the quotation marks): "in.pinterest.com/pin/478648266660680230/" I looked and can not find the image in any collection of Troiani's work. I do not have my copy of his American Revolutionary War book available, it may be in there. Sorry I cannot give a more learned answer. I am of the opinion that a "Royal" regiment would likely want to keep the blue lapels, as a status symbol. I have painted my 23rd with full dress uniform, even though it is likely inaccurate. I just like the look.

Here is a link to a Spanish blog that reproduces the fairly-well-known 1980 article from Britain's 'Military Modelling' by the late, lamented Richard Scollins.
The panel showing Cornwallis' troops includes the rear view of a 23rd Fusilier and, for what that is worth, clearly wearing a cut-down regulation coat with the hint of a blue cuff.
Richard Scollins' illustrations were always strong on atmosphere while there were those who, I gather, subsequently have questioned details in the paintings. IIRC, that may have focussed on his depiction of the FootGuards. Others here may know more.
Questions might also have included those white feathers in the fusiliers hat!
The article also includes the monochrome study of a man of Cornwallis' own 33rd, clearly wearing his cut-down regulation coat with its red facings.

link

P.S. This 2021 modellers' blog on a 1777 Light Infantry figure has Rick Scollins' images from another 'Military Modelling' article on British campaign adaptations in C18th America. It includes a generic battalion coy man ca. 1780-1783 in a sleeved waist coat with no facings.

link

Really awesome info guys, much appreciated!

I tend to agree with the idea that the Royal regiments would especially want to show their unit pride and always endeavor to have their facings colors.

But then I wonder about the strains of supply across the Atlantic. And as the war progressed the simplification of uniforms for cost cutting and campaign practicalities.

I really do like the look of the plain red jacket on AWI British regiments. However, I still did adhere to doing facing colors for the vast majority of my regiments, whether it's the 1768 Warrant or cut-down coats.

I made a calculated decision to do the 23rd in a mix of jackets with blue cuffs on the roundabouts and then just plain red roundabouts.

Thee interesting thing about the Perry metal pack of the 23rd Foot Command, is that one of the models has a cut-down coat but it is complete with lapel, cuffs, and collar. The two color bearers have plain roundabouts but also "seem" to have cuffs sculpted on them. The drummer is in a plain roundabout with no collar or cuffs sculpted. Then there's a model with a roundabout but also seems to have a collar.

That's the other thing about Perry command group, is that on some of them I genuinely can't tell if cuffs are sculpted on, and on the ones that do have cuffs, they are very faint and the line is not very distinct.

So the Perry brothers went all in with the idea of an AWI British regiment having a mix of coats at some point in the war.

This is all very interesting!

Just take into consideration that the 23rd probably wore at least 4 different uniforms throughout the war.
Boston, New York and Philadelphia campaign, down South, etc.
Often times they wore what was available.
Then, you should also take into consideration whether they actually carried their Colours in the field. 🤷

@John the OFM,

That is a VERY good point about colors!

By default almost every historical modeler adds color bearers to most of their AWI regiments.

But it's something I know I have certainly not researched at all, which is exactly what you said. How often did they actually carry their colors in battle? Perhaps it wasn't as common as is generally assumed?

So just one correction to my post above. The Perry pack I got for the command group was NOT the specific 23rd foot group. I got the command pack of "British in slouch hats and roundabouts" so that they matched the 2 packs of private soldiers marching with the same slouch hats and roundabouts.

Basically I did a "semi-generic" version of the 23rd Foot, but it's directly based on Perry's actual 23rd Foot packs, which are quite, quite similar! Both the 23rd packs and the generic slouch hat and roundabout packs have the same hats and jackets. The only slight difference is that the 23rd packs seem to have a fuller plume on top, the generic packs have plumes that are a little more sparse.

But that minor difference didn't really make any impression on me for 28mm.